Jump to content

Solar Panels -> How To Store the Energy?


Recommended Posts

Hi there

Hoe are storing the huge amount of energy from solar panels for times when there are meteors?

So far I cam up with / saw the following solutions:

1) HEAVY WIREs everywhere: just hook them and their batteries directly to you main grid, where your generators and their smart batteries are

2) SWITCH: build a huge storage that connects to and deconntects to you main grid base on the meteor shower or based on the stored amount in the batteries

3) TRANSFORMERS: build a huge storage that connects via transformers to your main grid, where your generators and their smart batteries are

Any better ideas? I hope so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use batteries to store the charge.

You can put as much supply on light wire as you want, but never more than 1k/2k for demand before they start to take damage.

You cannot back feed a transformer. It will not work.

What would switching do? Why disconnect? Overcharging hurts nothing.

Ergo you must have heavy wire connect all your solar panels to your main grid to your batteries. Unless you want a decentralized grid, but it doesn't sound like it.

You need to decide how many batteries you want. Enough to contain all the energy from a full cycle? Well then that's more heat and more loss. But overcharge vs loss is better to side with the extra batteries/heat/loss. My opinion.

I have dug out a chase on the side of the map. It's my mechanical corridor and battery and natural gas storage. My solar panels connect to this, and so does my power plant.You just live with the decor hit of the penetrations into the chase and the heavy wire and the insulated tiles, I also have a chase at the top of the map. It's filled with wheeze worts and hydrogen and large transformers. Now I have two sides where I have easy access to my entire grid. The top is super chill(ed) and helps cool the base. You could go around to the far side if you really wanted to, but I haven't found it to be worth it.

This plan has worked well for me. Everything is isolated and can be cooled independently. I don't know how many batteries I have, but I looked at my report and I'm losing 23.3kj/cycle. I saw some over charge from solar, but most days not which means I have about the right amount of batteries.

 

I could put in more batteries, but I don't think with the equipment I'm running I could sustain myself during the meteor cycle. I need to supplant my solar with fossil fuels. If you have less demand then you might be able to. End game you have excess hydrogen/natural gas/petroleum so you shouldn't ever be low on a fuel source.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never store solar energy, neither use it as a "main power source".
My bases have some smart batteries to store power, and generators are controlled by smart batteries too. 
When i use it, i connect the Solar Panels to the main power grid to save some fuel, or to directly feed some power hungry systems buildt near the space biome (like the base cooling system).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always combine my solar power plant and my "spom". Both connected to the same heavy watt wire and a couple batteries to control the amount of stored power.

=> Use the hydrogen as battery (huge array of gas tanks)

 

If the sun is shining and no meteor shower is happening, I will burn no hydrogen.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, scaldinghotcarl said:

I have dug out a chase on the side of the map

I though doing the same, one vertical corridor for dupes and on the far end one for wire. I did not come up with placing batteries there though.  But how your batteries cooled? Did you place some wheezes in there? The Natural Gas should be quite hot, right?

 

11 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

solar power plant and my "spom".

Sound like a huge spom, to convert all that energy to hydrogen.

unfortunately I do not yet have so much extra water yet and I am  saving hydrogen for my future rockets. but for a late game that may work well. thx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, habuky said:

I though doing the same, one vertical corridor for dupes and on the far end one for wire. I did not come up with placing batteries there though.  But how your batteries cooled? Did you place some wheezes in there? The Natural Gas should be quite hot, right?

 

Natural gas is second to hydrogen, so it can transmit heat well enough. I went I think 8 rows two tiles high for the batteries and then one row three high for the worts.

Here's what it looks like. http://prntscr.com/m8fqld

Keeping going to Rura Penthe and getting wort seeds. You can never have too many.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many Batteries on the same wire is EVIL. (Exception being having more than one smart battery because you want different on/off settings for different power generators)

 

You connect all power generation items on the same wire, then control the non-solar power generators with smart batteries, if the power in the smart batteries drops below X% the other types get fired up, but they stop again when you hit less than 100%.

 

Power Generators connect to Transforme(s) connect to a single Jumbo Battery and the power users.

 

I'm unsure how the power generation network deals with having more than 20K power generators on the same wire. I know you get wire damage if you have more than 20K transformers connected to the 20K wire. A Transformer between two 20K wires, allow you to keep extending the network.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Miravlix said:

You connect all power generation items on the same wire, then control the non-solar power generators with smart batteries, if the power in the smart batteries drops below X% the other types get fired up, but they stop again when you hit less than 100%.

Right, that'S why I was searching for another solution. However setting your SM for you generator to 5%-20% instead of 0%-100% would also work but may be cumbersome.

 

2 hours ago, Miravlix said:

Power Generators connect to Transforme(s) connect to a single Jumbo Battery and the power users.

The problem here would be, that the single jumbo pack will always be filled by which ever generator supplying it through a transformer. Once the solar panels kick in, the batteries would most likely be already full.

A solution to that might be: 3) TRANSFORMERS: build a huge battery that connects via transformers to your main grid, where your generators and their smart batteries are 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, habuky said:

Any better ideas? I hope so.

I mean, what do you expect? You want to store the energy, and storing solar energy requires storing A LOT of it before it becomes even worthwhile. You have to think that you need to store a certain minimum amount of power just to get your bunker doors open at the end of each meteor storm. That alone requires quite a lot of batteries. To store enough energy for the bunker doors AND to actually get a significant power boost do your bases, you will need to build long rows of batteries. There's no other real way to store the energy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, habuky said:

Right, that'S why I was searching for another solution. However setting your SM for you generator to 5%-20% instead of 0%-100% would also work but may be cumbersome.

 

The problem here would be, that the single jumbo pack will always be filled by which ever generator supplying it through a transformer. Once the solar panels kick in, the batteries would most likely be already full.

A solution to that might be: 3) TRANSFORMERS: build a huge battery that connects via transformers to your main grid, where your generators and their smart batteries are 

 

 

No

 

Solar Power supply power when they can.

Non Solar Power supply power when batteries is at 0 to less than 100% Ergo unless Solar Power can supply more power than your base use, the battery isl never full.

 

The Jumbo battery isn't needed at all, it's just because it gives me a window to do stuff without generating power, like deciding to rewire something or accidentally forgetting setting the destruction tool to building only and breaking the wire.

 

The Smart battery is the only real battery power in the system, the design of the game means battery power isn't really a thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Yes. You can use the energy generated to heat up water to steam which you can store and drive steam turbines as needed.

Isn't just building 5-6 batteries (smart, for less power runoff) per solar generator vastly simpler? Put them in hydrogen, put in a wheeze for every 24 batteries, and forget about the whole thing. If you build a few dozen panels, you can keep them on their own power network to handle doors and rocket-related stuff. Even feed your main network with a few transformers, based on battery charge levels.

I mean I would love to see your design for the steam turbine concept, I'm sure it's very cool but I don't really think the added effort is worth the marginal improvement in effectiveness. Full smart batteries lose 2% of their power per cycle, that's pretty good.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, biopon said:

Isn't just building 5-6 batteries (smart, for less power runoff) per solar generator vastly simpler? Put them in hydrogen, put in a wheeze for every 24 batteries, and forget about the whole thing. If you build a few dozen panels, you can keep them on their own power network to handle doors and rocket-related stuff. Even feed your main network with a few transformers, based on battery charge levels.

I mean I would love to see your design for the steam turbine concept, I'm sure it's very cool but I don't really think the added effort is worth the marginal improvement in effectiveness. Full smart batteries lose 2% of their power per cycle, that's pretty good.

The main difference is batteries have limited storage capacity where you can heat up and store an infinite amount of steam or heat energy in general. Correctly built there is in theory no power loss in a heat energy storage.

It starts to make sense when you have 20 or more solar panels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've shown this elsewhere before, but I use large battery banks to store my solar power.  I use an automated shut-off to cut power from the battery bank to my main power line during meteor showers and when the batteries get below 20%.  I do this so that my backup generators never try to charge the battery bank in the event that it gets low.  This setup has 161 batteries.  If my calcs are correct, the AETN should be able to handle 164.  I also have a slightly smaller battery bank I use to store power from my steam gens cooling my rocket silos.  I have this setup completely passively using looped steam pipes so it's just additional free energy.  You can see the overproduction number in the tooltip.  I have ~250 batteries total.

 

20190117120603_1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Correctly built there is in theory no power loss in a heat energy storage.

Right, if you use insulation insulation (gawd that material name) and heat steam to exactly 230 degrees, the turbine will be 100% efficient in converting back those DTUs to power. But you see what I mean with effort? :)

2 minutes ago, Nitroturtle said:

This setup has 161 batteries. 

Wow that is impressive. What is the solar panel/battery ratio that you use? The dumb method (which is what I'm doing) is to keep adding batteries until they are no longer at 100%, and then take away 1. 

BTW, the AETN should be good for 160 batteries, if you have no other heat source such as transformers in there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, biopon said:

Wow that is impressive. What is the solar panel/battery ratio that you use? The dumb method (which is what I'm doing) is to keep adding batteries until they are no longer at 100%, and then take away 1. 

BTW, the AETN should be good for 160 batteries, if you have no other heat source such as transformers in there. 

It looks like I have closer to 300 batteries after looking again.  The 2nd bank has 128, and then I have a few for my other gens and some for the bunker doors.  I have 38 solar panels, so I guess around 1:9.  It's still not close to enough to store all the power, though it's hard to get exact numbers as I now have several steam turbines contributing as well.

Spoiler

20190117124856_1.thumb.jpg.82861b4c7d0e876dfdd276f26b92e52b.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

The main difference is batteries have limited storage capacity where you can heat up and store an infinite amount of steam or heat energy in general. Correctly built there is in theory no power loss in a heat energy storage.

It starts to make sense when you have 20 or more solar panels.

If you do not exploit any of the steam turbine bugs, then there is some power loss by storing energy as heat via aquatuner (see my below post from another topic).

If you exploit the bugs (I know I totally am, haha) then you can actually create a power positive storage system with the steam generator - I may try building this before they fix the bugs.

I totally agree with the idea the steam storage is limitless, which is very important. Batteries are limited, unless you build a huge battery array. Completely possible, just not my preference.

On 1/14/2019 at 5:19 AM, yoakenashi said:

Like most people here, I have thought about trying to create a power positive build using the steam turbine. However without using any of the common turbine exploits, the numbers indicate it is impossible to use an aquatuner to run a steam turbine.

Steam turbine requires 1.56 (kDTU/s)/W

  Hide contents

 

  • Steam has a specific heat of 4.179 DTU/(g °C)
  • The turbine moves 10 kg/s, drops the temperature 75 °C, and produces 2000 W

(4.179 DTU) * (10 kg) * (75 °C) * (     1       ) = 1.56713 kDTU
            g °C           s                       2000 W                      s W

 

and Thermo Aquatuner produces maximum of 0.98 (kTDU/s)/W

  Hide contents
  • Using highest specific heat material, super coolant at 8.44 DTU/(g °C)
  • The aquatuner moves 10 kg/s, increases the temperature 14 °C, and requires 1200 W

(8.44 DTU) * (10 kg) * (14 °C) * (    1       ) = 0.98467 kDTU
          g °C           s                      1200 W                     s W

Meaning you cannot heat the steam fast enough given the amount of power the turbine produces.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think storing energy in batteries is inferior to creating high energy density materials using your excess energy. Each battery can hold the same amount of energy as 4.5 kg of methane does and you can store infinite amounts of that. But of course if you have a decent boiler/condenser setup you probably have enough ready energy already. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently spent ~25 tons of Refined Metal on heavy wires to connect my solar panels to my main grid. About a dozen batteries on the producer side of my transformers. My C02 generation dropped drastically from all the clean energy that my slicksters are starting to dye from starvation (i have 4 Molten Slickster farms).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think you guys understand this game.

 

Let say we have a way of generating 10 units of something pr. cycle.

 

I then store that until I have 100 unit in storage.

 

I now design something that uses uses 20 units pr. cycle.

 

Result: Every turn the storage has 10 units less, until it reach zero and now you are using 20 units, but only generating 10 units and your base is now broken.

 

So what exactly do you think your doing with this stored power system?

 

You just need to handle small burst usage, like for bunker doors, a single Jumbo Battery can handle opening a full set of 2K wire doors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lets say we generate somewhere between 0 and 100 units per day.

Lets also say that our base uses 50 units per day.

If there are several consecutive days with <50 units generated, there will be a shortage.

By building storage for our variable generation, we can provide a buffer on the bad days so we don't run out. 

Handling small bursts is not the issue.  Handling the fluctuating power generation is the reason for building the large storage bank.

Which part of the game do I not understand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

I don't think you guys understand this game.

 

Let say we have a way of generating 10 units of something pr. cycle.

 

I then store that until I have 100 unit in storage.

 

I now design something that uses uses 20 units pr. cycle.

 

Result: Every turn the storage has 10 units less, until it reach zero and now you are using 20 units, but only generating 10 units and your base is now broken.

 

So what exactly do you think your doing with this stored power system?

 

You just need to handle small burst usage, like for bunker doors, a single Jumbo Battery can handle opening a full set of 2K wire doors.

No...

You just need to produce more then you use on average, and then have a large enough battery bank to last through night / meteor showers / peak times.

Which depending on the size of your power use and generation can be a lot of batteries, and even if you can't reach that point every battery will reduce oil/gas/hydrogen consumption necessary.

 

There's no reason not to make a massive battery bank, and heat neutralize it with a single nullifier....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I design my power generation connected to 20K wire with whatever number of smart batteries (four in my last base) needed to handle controlling the power generators. Solar Power is used at 100% capacity, I have side to side optimal solar power layout. It's not possible for me to generate more power than I do with solar power.

 

Solar Power is not enough to supply the base, it generates less power than the base use, so I have coal, natgas, petro and hydrogen generators that kicks in if the smart battery gets below certain threshold. There is NEVER EVER any spare solar power to store, I can barely generate enough of natgas/petro/hydrogen/steam to keep the smart batteries from dropping to zero.

 

Connected to the 20K wire I have 1K Transformers connected to 2K wires (So I can power 40K of items in bursts), I also have a *SINGLE* Jumbo Battery on each 2K wire, so 20 Jumbo Batteries.

 

Result: Nothing on the base is *EVER* out of power. None of the Jumbo batteries drop below 95%.

 

If I use less power, I have spare natgas/oil and I simply don't import from geysers and other resource generators, until I can expand my base and use 100% of the generated raw resource. Why would you EVER use 100+ batteries when batteries is the WORST possible way to store a resource, storing gas or liquid does not come with ANY downside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how you have your solar panels setup, but my current and last two bases have been able to be powered entirely using solar.  I generate a max of 5300kJ per day with solar alone and use ~4000kJ with my base at just under 1700 cycles.  Either your power usage is higher than mine, or your solar setup isn't as optimal as you think.

I'm also unsure why storing power in batteries is an issue, when the power that's being stored is being generated at zero cost.  The only cost is the hydrogen to supply the AETNs cooling the batteries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
×
  • Create New...