I miss the point of new gas/liquid storage

[Flydo]

I miss the point of the utility of the new storage, i only could store 5 tons of liquid in it when i can store 1 ton more in a normal tank. (i know i don't count the wall, and the pump system i use, but in the final the liquid or gas storage will be in room)

But more important for me, if i store polluted water in it, it produce polluted oxygen (i know apparently if you put this storage in a room full of chlorine the polluted water disinfect, but what the point i have number of way to use contaminated polluted water)

 

Same for the gas storage 4x3 storing 150 Kg when in the same place i could store 12*20=240 Kg of gas

[hostagesaverfuz]

tank can be submerged

[The Flying Fox]

9 minutes ago, Flydo said:

I miss the point of the utility of the new storage, i only could store 5 tons of liquid in it when i can store 1 ton more in a normal tank. (i know i don't count the wall, and the pump system i use, but in the final the liquid or gas storage will be in room)

 

"(i know i don't count the wall, and the pump system i use, but in the final the liquid or gas storage will be in room)"

That is basically the point of them.  They're quite resource cheap for what they do.  400 raw metal is just the price of a liquid pump, but that price includes the walls and the ability of the reservoir to function like a bridge and push out their contents.  To build a normal liquid storage tank, there's walls, pipes, vent, and a liquid pump to move the contents out of them.  If you need to store more then basically 2 tanks worth (10 tons+) then you're better served by building your own tank.  These reservoirs are designed as small buffer storages, basically.

 

The gas reservoir is an even a better deal.  In order to store the amount they can hold in a similar amount of space, you not only need to make a sealed room, (Which can be troublesome to some degree) but also a high-pressure vent.  So, 200 refined metal and 50 plastic plus the walls and the 50 raw metal for a pump.. which can only pump at 500G/s.  But the gas reservoir can output it's contents at a full 1KG/s, if needed.  They're also a 'set and forget' kind of thing.  I'd much rather drop down a gas reservoir then have my Dupes fiddle with a dedicated room for storing a specific type of gas.

 

Building for hydrogen storage is pretty easy since that's the lightest gas, the same goes for CO2 since that's the heaviest but what about the others?  Building a natural gas storage room can mean getting some oxygen/hydrogen stuck in the top while chlorine/CO2 can be stuck in the bottom.  Or, when the pressure of the room is getting below 500G, then your air pump starts pulling in less and less.  A gas reservoir, on the other hand, will drain every gram of gas out of it.

[Jackblac]

13 minutes ago, The Flying Fox said:

"(i know i don't count the wall, and the pump system The gas reservoir is an even a better deal.  In order to store the amount they can hold in a similar amount of space, you not only need to make a sealed room, (Which can be troublesome to some degree) but also a high-pressure vent.  So, 200 refined metal and 50 plastic plus the walls and the 50 raw metal for a pump.. which can only pump at 500G/s.  But the gas reservoir can output it's contents at a full 1KG/s, if needed.  They're also a 'set and forget' kind of thing.  I'd much rather drop down a gas reservoir then have my Dupes fiddle with a dedicated room for storing a specific type of gas.

With flatulent dupes no room they access has just one gas in it. So right now if I want a proper seal I need to make sure everything in is the right way before I seal it. With this that becomes so much easier. 

Also people seem to forget that you can put these storages in your liquid reservoir or high pressure gas storage. That way you almost double how much gas or liquid that area holds

[Amara3113]

Also, if you submerge one in chlorine, it actually kills off the germs.  I have a liquid tank with restroom water that has been purified in it and it's de-germifying in chlorine before I run it through an auqatuner and back to the bathroom.  I know that I don't really need to do that, but I feel like eventually they will change the germy water through the bathroom without a penalty, so I want to get used to it now. 

[hpongledd]

23 minutes ago, The Flying Fox said:

The gas reservoir is an even a better deal.  In order to store the amount they can hold in a similar amount of space, you not only need to make a sealed room, (Which can be troublesome to some degree) but also a high-pressure vent.  So, 200 refined metal and 50 plastic plus the walls and the 50 raw metal for a pump.. which can only pump at 500G/s.  But the gas reservoir can output it's contents at a full 1KG/s, if needed.  They're also a 'set and forget' kind of thing.  I'd much rather drop down a gas reservoir then have my Dupes fiddle with a dedicated room for storing a specific type of gas.

Building for hydrogen storage is pretty easy since that's the lightest gas, the same goes for CO2 since that's the heaviest but what about the others?  Building a natural gas storage room can mean getting some oxygen/hydrogen stuck in the top while chlorine/CO2 can be stuck in the bottom.  Or, when the pressure of the room is getting below 500G, then your air pump starts pulling in less and less.  A gas reservoir, on the other hand, will drain every gram of gas out of it.

All things that can be avoided with a smart gas filtration station and careful building and you can store an "infinite" amount.

imo they are next to worthless the only  use i could see in them is for: temporary storage of liquids in combination with cooling/heating them up.

gas storages are one of the things i'll probably never use in this game. But i think for newbies those buildings will be an enourmous help!

[The Flying Fox]

2 minutes ago, hpongledd said:

All things that can be avoided with a smart gas filtration station and careful building and you can store an "infinite" amount.

Sure, if you're willing to use tricked gas vents with small amounts of liquids covering them, or a door compressor to endlessly squeeze infinite amounts of gas into an impossibly small space.  Then yeah, the gas reservoir isn't for you.

 

I, on the other hand, rather not use those if I can help it and I'd imagine I'm not the only one.  So, saying they're for 'newbies' is just silly.  They clearly have advantages over building conventional gas storage tanks.  Of course, you can easily take the time to just use the pump you put into the chamber to vacuum it out and/or use mechanical or element filters to do what you need.  Moreover, I can't imagine not making a decent gas filtration system for my base but, as far as the storage goes, I think I'd rather just smack down a few gas reservoirs and be done with it!    

[bountygiver]

hopefully they add an automation links to it in the future (and have smart batteries threshold for it)

[Flydo]

2 hours ago, Jackblac said:

With flatulent dupes no room they access has just one gas in it. So right now if I want a proper seal I need to make sure everything in is the right way before I seal it. With this that becomes so much easier. 

Also people seem to forget that you can put these storages in your liquid reservoir or high pressure gas storage. That way you almost double how much gas or liquid that area holds

Always making have a vaccuum system inside this kind of room so i can seal it whenever i want i just make vaccum inside before i use it

3 hours ago, The Flying Fox said:

"(i know i don't count the wall, and the pump system i use, but in the final the liquid or gas storage will be in room)"

That is basically the point of them.  They're quite resource cheap for what they do.  400 raw metal is just the price of a liquid pump, but that price includes the walls and the ability of the reservoir to function like a bridge and push out their contents.

not really cause if you look at the picture polluted water store inside the liquid storage make some bubble of polluted water, for me it's a dangerous thing and i like to have my base only full of oxygen to prevent slimelung proliferation. For all other liquid or maybe some gas it could be usefull, for small amount or use like an emergency buffer for (some automation on it to tell if it's full or empty like smart batteries could be cool), but for polluted water they're useless in my point of view

[babba]

Classify me as a "Newbie" then, I will start playing the game again... Coz tanks, the rocket ignition heat and pollution and such things are getting me to play the game again. New containment solutions to build and master, hello BP mass fuel production. Can't wait to be at my ONI single core max performance 6 GHz pc later to fire up the game with my 100 dupes map.

HAPPY ONI everyone

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

The issue with the old gas and liquid storage methods of building a dedicated room, is that they take space and time to build. For instance, a gas room dedicated to store natural gas will be something you normally cannot access again for whatever reason . A reservoir on the other hand can be perfectly put down in a place with high dupe traffic.

Furthermore, a storage is a storage. I don't need huge lots of storage for water. I need a decent amount for natural gas, but never have I needed "infinite" amounts of it. plucking down 3 to 4 gas tanks and I am set. That will be much easier to do than digging out a dedicated room and setting up power and pumping to get the gas out afterwards.

And of course, like Bluelance once told: you can simply put a reservoir in a storage room, which further increases storage capacity! As the people mentioned above, there quite a few useful tricks to be applied with that too. So it's far from "newbie stuff" and imo since hpongledd brought that up maybe he should look at himself in that department because he didn't think this through at all.

3 hours ago, Flydo said:

not really cause if you look at the picture polluted water store inside the liquid storage make some bubble of polluted water, for me it's a dangerous thing and i like to have my base only full of oxygen to prevent slimelung proliferation. For all other liquid or maybe some gas it could be usefull, for small amount or use like an emergency buffer for (some automation on it to tell if it's full or empty like smart batteries could be cool), but for polluted water they're useless in my point of view

The same problem also exists with a dedicated room storage unless completely sealed off. In my current base,where I still have a dedicated room for polluted water, I left a small opening for a bottle emptier so I could actually dump spilled polluted water (because you know, accidents can and will happen). You know how I dealt with the polluted oxygen? A deodorizer. A single, simple deodorizer.

So for my next base instead of dedicating a full cycle to dig and tile off a complete room, I will just put down some reservoirs. I need more storage down the line? I will just put more reservoirs down, catered for the needs I need at that moment, instead of having to think ahead and very early have to dedicate value dupe time on building one large room. The only thing I need to worry about is leaving enough space for a couple of deodorizers inbetween.

 

[Alfons100]

5 hours ago, Amara3113 said:

Also, if you submerge one in chlorine, it actually kills off the germs.  I have a liquid tank with restroom water that has been purified in it and it's de-germifying in chlorine before I run it through an auqatuner and back to the bathroom.  I know that I don't really need to do that, but I feel like eventually they will change the germy water through the bathroom without a penalty, so I want to get used to it now. 

I suspect this may be fixed soon, seems like an oversight.

[Flydo]

1 hour ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

The same problem also exists with a dedicated room storage unless completely sealed off. In my current base,where I still have a dedicated room for polluted water, I left a small opening for a bottle emptier so I could actually dump spilled polluted water (because you know, accidents can and will happen). You know how I dealt with the polluted oxygen? A deodorizer. A single, simple deodorizer.

Look more attentively my room for polluted water in the picture, it complety sealed off AND i have a bottle emptier (**** happen or Murphy law as you want) and the liquid pump, pumping so fast that no polluted oxygen is emit. Also i have a gas pump inside with a switch to evacuate polluted oxygen if i want desconstruct this room without any trouble.

So for polluted water it's useless for me. For water i prefer a big tank first for the quantities and in a second point cause i store my ice and snow inside to cool down my water and make a surplus  of water when it's reach the fusion point. crude oil, no need to store it, petroleum i use it as soon as i make it

1 hour ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

The issue with the old gas and liquid storage methods of building a dedicated room, is that they take space and time to build. For instance, a gas room dedicated to store natural gas will be something you normally cannot access again for whatever reason . A reservoir on the other hand can be perfectly put down in a place with high dupe traffic

No need to acceed if you build it smart, and except for polluted water (cause is one of the first thing i built as soon as i can, the one you, it's take more than 300 cycle to be full with the polluted ice i dig out on an entire ice biome) most of the time i use natural cavity of the map with an vaccuum airlock to store it

[Yoma_Nosme]

Hi folks! I have a question about the tanks but I can't play for the next two weeks 

So as you've said they give off p-o2 when filled with ph20. I would like to know how much? 6 tiles of ph2o? Or in other words do tanks gas off more/less/equal than/to the same amount of water tiles?

Thanks

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

22 minutes ago, Flydo said:

Look more attentively my room for polluted water in the picture, it complety sealed off AND i have a bottle emptier (**** happen or Murphy law as you want) and the liquid pump, pumping so fast that no polluted oxygen is emit. Also i have a gas pump inside with a switch to evacuate polluted oxygen if i want desconstruct this room without any trouble.

Yes, and the power requirement is in my opinion wasteful. I count 3 liquid pumps and 1 gas pump. Of course these aren't running constantly, but this feels needlessly complex and inefficient. And just look what space that is taking inside of your base. Granted, you looked ahead, but nothing is stopping you to look ahead with the reservoirs. And again, a well positioned deodorizer is ALL you need to get rid of polluted oxygen.

Even disregarding all of that, the obvious improvement on your build is building a reservoir inside your polluted water tank. You have the space for it to add an additonal 5 tons of water just like that because they are submergeable. It's a direct efficiency of space improvement.

Quote

So for polluted water it's useless for me. For water i prefer a big tank first for the quantities and in a second point cause i store my ice and snow inside to cool down my water and make a surplus  of water when it's reach the fusion point. crude oil, no need to store it, petroleum i use it as soon as i make it

Nothing is stopping you, again, doing the same with reservoirs. Granted, here you will have to build a pond to begin with. However, again there are room efficiencies (reservoirs inside of free water) to be made with the buildable reservoirs, and you don't require an additional pump if you are willing to sacrifice room efficiency for power efficiency. Sure you can say "I don't care, I got power to spare". Sure, I have too, but early game power is a hassle and you don't want dupes to constantly wasting time on refilling coal generators.

Quote

No need to acceed if you build it smart, and except for polluted water (cause is one of the first thing i built as soon as i can, the one you, it's take more than 300 cycle to be full with the polluted ice i dig out on an entire ice biome) most of the time i use natural cavity of the map with an vaccuum airlock to store it

Given you contemplate yourself on rebuilding your liquid set up, there's always a chance you need to rebuild your layout. Being smart or not smart does not change that. For instance my polluted liquid pool was first build very large as I did not immediately had use for polluted water. Later on when I started to recycle it, I needed way less buffer. I could have saved so much time if I had the current reservoirs instead.

[Miravlix]

I'm just not seeing how to stop us from making compression designs, doors and vent in another gas/liquid than the one pumped out will always work.

 

Don't even need liquid on a gas vent, you can simply use another gas, works with geysers, they will never see that the gas it creates is overpressured if you keep the top of the geyser in another gas.

 

They need to make gas break walls, instead of specialized buildings and embrace the gas/liquid compression that already works well.

[babba]

Still haven't played the test build, but I already can imagine using 10 gas tanks in parallel or in line as a kind of gas capacity storage condensators for large special build projects... More ingame items, more play options. 

[hpongledd]

Maybe i was too harsh calling it "newbie stuff". But i really dont see any useful usage for them. I like to collect everything and dont waste or destroy any ressources. So i basically ended with a storage room with around ~30t of CO2, 25t of Nat. Gas and a lot of Hydrogen and a 300kg of chlorine (no chlorine geysirs on the map), good luck with storing those amounts into storages. And as nice extra put two/three wheezoworts into the storage room and all gases are cooled im sitting right now (1070 cycles) on gases around -20degrees.

1 hour ago, babba said:

Still haven't played the test build, but I already can imagine using 10 gas tanks in parallel or in line as a kind of gas capacity storage condensators for large special build projects... More ingame items, more play options. 

I use this. One pipe to rule them all (the valves are useless, i think).

[Sasza22]

I just think it`s useful to have a buffer for gas consuming generators. Before i had to build a long pipe to ensure the generator keeps working even for a while when the pump stops (in case of power shortage or something) now i can build a gas tank and save space (that would be filled with a pipe spaghetti).

It also seems like a useful way to contain some gasses for easy access to them later without needing to filter them again and with no danger of them leaking anywhere. It`s just a cleaner way to handle gasses.

[Rebrait]

It´s a good buffer for a 10W filter, you don´t need the return pipe anymore... 

[Flydo]

2 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Yes, and the power requirement is in my opinion wasteful. I count 3 liquid pumps and 1 gas pump. Of course these aren't running constantly, but this feels needlessly complex and inefficient. And just look what space that is taking inside of your base. Granted, you looked ahead, but nothing is stopping you to look ahead with the reservoirs. And again, a well positioned deodorizer is ALL you need to get rid of polluted oxygen.

Even disregarding all of that, the obvious improvement on your build is building a reservoir inside your polluted water tank. You have the space for it to add an additonal 5 tons of water just like that because they are submergeable. It's a direct efficiency of space improvement.

Nothing is stopping you, again, doing the same with reservoirs. Granted, here you will have to build a pond to begin with. However, again there are room efficiencies (reservoirs inside of free water) to be made with the buildable reservoirs, and you don't require an additional pump if you are willing to sacrifice room efficiency for power efficiency. Sure you can say "I don't care, I got power to spare". Sure, I have too, but early game power is a hassle and you don't want dupes to constantly wasting time on refilling coal generators.

Given you contemplate yourself on rebuilding your liquid set up, there's always a chance you need to rebuild your layout. Being smart or not smart does not change that. For instance my polluted liquid pool was first build very large as I did not immediately had use for polluted water. Later on when I started to recycle it, I needed way less buffer. I could have saved so much time if I had the current reservoirs instead.

Yes you count well, but nothing work unless it's really needed, only when i have accident, or if i need to use polluted, the other is here in case i want do deconstruct this room, please read. Using sand in early game for air filtration instead of keeping it to make glass is not a way for me and loosing a  little amount of time at beginning to be sure polluted oxygen not enter my base instead of having to recharge constantly the dezodorizer, if you're dupe are late to recharge po2 come into you're base

I could reallly understand the utility for all gases but for polluted water i don't see advantage, and for water, where you will melt tons of ice?

[hpongledd]

I think in the end it comes down to this:

• decentralized approach to the game
  • useful as buffer
  • useful as temporary solution
  • rushing stuff
• centralized approach to the game => no real usage

In a centralized approach there are way better solutions, ofcourse only if you are willing to overpressurize rooms. 

And regarding putting storages into your storage room to increase storing capacity, if you are overpressurizing a room, you dont need more then ~8tiles (4gas pump, 2 hydro/atmo sensor, 2 liquid/gas vent) and even those could be reduced. So i dont really see why i should make a big room for additional storage. I mean you are basically building the same thing just two times....

19 minutes ago, Flydo said:

I could reallly understand the utility for all gases but for polluted water i don't see advantage, and for water, where you will melt tons of ice?

At the ice biome directly and make everything fall down to your "dumbster" right below your base

[Flydo]

1 hour ago, hpongledd said:

Maybe i was too harsh calling it "newbie stuff". But i really dont see any useful usage for them. I like to collect everything and dont waste or destroy any ressources. So i basically ended with a storage room with around ~30t of CO2, 25t of Nat. Gas and a lot of Hydrogen and a 300kg of chlorine (no chlorine geysirs on the map), good luck with storing those amounts into storages. And as nice extra put two/three wheezoworts into the storage room and all gases are cooled im sitting right now (1070 cycles) on gases around -20degrees.

Quite easy when you found a ATEN to store CO2 and chlorine respectivly to solid and liquid form.

For the rest i pretty agree with you stocking 30 tons in multiple new storage what a mess, you to build about 200 storage and the people talk about saving metal and space.....

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

15 minutes ago, Flydo said:

I could reallly understand the utility for all gases but for polluted water i don't see advantage, and for water, where you will melt tons of ice?

For cooling water you'll need to build a storage room. So that's definitely needed anyhow. To increase the space efficiency you then build water reservoirs inside your filled water pond. So you can have up to 11ton of water for each 6 cells, contrary to just 6 tons, plus water cooled inside your water reservoirs does not need a water pump to extract. To top it off, inbetween the water reservoirs you build your compactors with ice.

Quote

Yes you count well, but nothing work unless it's really needed, only when i have accident, or if i need to use polluted, the other is here in case i want do deconstruct this room, please read. Using sand in early game for air filtration instead of keeping it to make glass is not a way for me and loosing a  little amount of time at beginning to be sure polluted oxygen not enter my base instead of having to recharge constantly the dezodorizer, if you're dupe are late to recharge po2 come into you're base

Idid read your comment and I alreadt aknowledged you weren't using everything all at once.

Sand is an almost infinite source. There's already much more sand then you'll ever need. In off chance you have a very, very bad seed with less sand than usual, you can always use regolith or have the rock granulator crush some redundant resources. But I really can't imagine this being an argument. "Oh no, I might run out of my 100 ton sand which I dug up without even actively going after sand!"

Quote

if you're dupe are late to recharge po2 come into you're base

If your dupe is too late going onto the hamster wheel, your power shuts down and thus the pump does not pump the polluted water away, you also get P02 in your base. Sure, you can argue "I don't have hamster wheels and my power supply is secured!". Sure, but I could argue having a deodorizer with a high enough priority sitting in the middle of your base will never get empty. Infact, it takes a lot of cycles before the deodorizer is burned through its max sand capacity. It is as likely to run out of sand as your system can run out of power.

[Flydo]

3 minutes ago, hpongledd said:

I think in the end it comes down to this:

• decentralized approach to the game
  • useful as buffer
  • useful as temporary solution
  • useful for early game
  • rushing stuff
• centralized approach to the game
  • useful for early game
  • rushing stuff

In a centralized approach there are way better solutions, ofcourse only if you are willing to overpressurize rooms.

At the ice biome directly and make everything fall down to your "dumbster" right below your base

Don't have a uggly dumbster below my base

 

Usefull in early game....but it's one of the last research in the technology tree, i could understood if it's one of the first but when i can build it i have already the overpresurized vent