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And now for something completely different: “fixed” variable temperatures should go away.


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If we want unrealistic things to cool the environment Klei could add a plant that needs a material to produce cold. And a critter that needs to be fed with something to produce more cold. Maybe a few machines that needs a special resources.

I think the same as @watermelen671. If we must delete fixed temp output, we need more means to cool the world. And I think one solution in each domain is the best we can have. As everyone will be able to use the one he likes and builds will be again more creative ^^

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2 minutes ago, psusi said:

Good point, but then instead of relying on magical fixed output machines to void heat, you are relying on magical generators that produce water without any oxygen.  And magical extra high heat capacity water at that.  I was thinking the OP's point was to go fully realistic.

How do you dig for space, then? How do you produce sufficient oxygen? Going fully realistic breaks the game on a fundamental level. Neither of us has the computing power to run realistic real time fluid, gas and thermal simulators.

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I think the important thing here is not that it must be fully realistic but that machine-output temps are confusing and add contradictory stimuli into the game for buildings whose tooltip clearly indicates they produce heat. The game will do just fine with the remaining 2 ways of output temp handling as long as additional means of cooling are added, which would be a welcome addition anyway for those who do not want (and should not have) to rely on these quirks.

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3 hours ago, Sevio said:

I think the important thing here is not that it must be fully realistic but that machine-output temps are confusing and add contradictory stimuli into the game for buildings whose tooltip clearly indicates they produce heat. The game will do just fine with the remaining 2 ways of output temp handling as long as additional means of cooling are added, which would be a welcome addition anyway for those who do not want (and should not have) to rely on these quirks.

If Klei want to change it, it is certainly their prerogative. I don't see how this is any less consistent than fixed outputs or input modulated outputs. And the argument from realism falls on its face if the desire to to change it to one of the other methods, as they're just as quirky and unrealistic and break thermodynamics. I seems like you could point to any particular method and say it fails consistency. Electrolyzers claim to produce heat, too, but we both know that they are very often used to destroy heat, the floor is just different. But socking heat into polluted water, running it through a sieve, socking more heat into the clean water, and running it into an electrolyzer amounts to the same thing in terms of 'producing heat'.

You can even cool electrolyzers with their own output, so the heat the 'building' produces is subverted.

About the best argument I see for changing it, is to reduce complexity of implementation. To narrow the field of possibilities that people have to learn. But the OP seemed to suffer an affront over issues that would remain only modestly altered in switching to one of the other two means of temperature determination of output. Other absurd approaches would just apply that people already use with other machines that operate the prescribed way.

I guess, I just don't get why this is particularly more egregious.

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3 minutes ago, Chipplyman said:

I read the OP as satire, asking exactly this question about other recent discussions of heat output methods here. 

I don't have the context of those other discussions. Are people getting worked up about electrolyzers and sieves them as well? It seemed as those others of people took the argument at face value and agreed with the premise, so I am confused.

If the argument is they're all a bit absurd but that's OK, then I guess I agree. I think the game could be more descriptive about how machines operate. But I like the diversity that facilitates different types of challenges to overcome and exploit. As long as Klei has intentionality.  I am just not a fan of the bug exploitative designs and find it interesting people cling on to them.

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9 hours ago, Chipplyman said:

I read the OP as satire, asking exactly this question about other recent discussions of heat output methods here. 

I guess the satire was a bit too subtle considering how many people (myself included) responded seriously to the suggestion.

9 hours ago, Whispershade said:

I don't have the context of those other discussions. Are people getting worked up about electrolyzers and sieves them as well? It seemed as those others of people took the argument at face value and agreed with the premise, so I am confused.

You might have missed out on a rather heated discussion thread about the use of the water sieve and other fixed output buildings to delete heat:

 

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Having power generators give off hot exhaust seems reasonable. It's good gameplay, it's good physics, and it's also what an ordinary person would reasonably expect. You don't have to be a calorimetrist to know that the exhaust of a running car will be hot even though the body is cool to the touch.

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1 hour ago, Sevio said:

You might have missed out on a rather heated discussion thread about the use of the water sieve and other fixed output buildings to delete heat:

Yeah. I don't understand why people are so worked up.

It is like getting worked up over the fertilizer maker changes because they aren't natural gas plants now that we have all these other options. If Klei ends up changing these temperature features later because they've iterated on how we're expected to manage heat, that's great. But acting like these things some how break the game as it stands now strikes me as silly.

Thanks for sharing the context with me..

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6 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

It is like getting worked up over the fertilizer maker changes because they aren't natural gas plants now that we have all these other options

Wait, did I miss something?  Did EU change the fertilizer maker to not make gas anymore?  ( I haven't built one since upgrading to EU ).

 

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4 minutes ago, psusi said:

Wait, did I miss something?  Did EU change the fertilizer maker to not make gas anymore?  ( I haven't built one since upgrading to EU ).

 

They still make gas, jsut not as much also they require dirt.

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11 minutes ago, psusi said:

Wait, did I miss something?  Did EU change the fertilizer maker to not make gas anymore?  ( I haven't built one since upgrading to EU ).

 

There was a time, I don't which update changed it (I hadn't played regularly since automation, I think), that Fertilizer makers produced enough gas to fuel 1/3 of a nat gas generator and all they required was polluted water. So setting up a Natural Gas Generator plant with banks upon banks of fertilizer maker to feed them was a generally accepted energy production tactic turning polluted water directly to fuel to power the base.

This approach seems highly impractical now, though.

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I think for laughs, the Devs should have a "HARDCORE" mode in options just like they have Hardcore servers for FPS games (ones where if you get shot once, you die.. no med packs and 50 bullet tanking)

That way these players who want super hot outputs and things to resemble reality could do so without effecting the newer players. It wouldn't even be that hard, just change all the stuff they are complaining about like fixed temperatures and stuff when the button is enabled.

 

Easy peasy lemon squeezy

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2 hours ago, BadlyBurned said:

I think for laughs, the Devs should have a "HARDCORE" mode in options just like they have Hardcore servers for FPS games (ones where if you get shot once, you die.. no med packs and 50 bullet tanking)

That way these players who want super hot outputs and things to resemble reality could do so without effecting the newer players. It wouldn't even be that hard, just change all the stuff they are complaining about like fixed temperatures and stuff when the button is enabled.

 

Easy peasy lemon squeezy

Why stop there

You cannot cross pipes with gaspipes, same with wires. Except for Automation.

I am not sorry.

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