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Klei Bug Tracker

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Everything posted by WanderingKid

  1. Unless it's a known company I have little faith in EA for most publishers. I rarely buy early access games. Klei is a known entity for me so I had more faith in them actually producing a fun and reasonably glitch free product. I personally find... … that is what I feel like when I get into an EA game, and it never gets anywhere fun. So, I stopped buying stuff like that. Including most AAA titles. Preorder? Noooo…. not anymore! As to the actual posting here... You mean we *shouldn't* stick them under the chlorine pool and let their flesh flay itself off? Awwww. That seemed like fun. Well, since you asked nicely, I suppose we can let them survive... No oxygen though! Gotta bring their own!
  2. I personally have taken a break. I'm hoping the new biomes can spark my interest. The new disease system is slightly more invasive than the old one was. Without Miserable, I'd ignore slime lung with a handful of deodorizers and strip mine the entire biome. You'd be amazed at what you can do with a pool of water below you to catch all the slime and a deodorizer every 20 wide and 5 high. I just don't like the way the game is relying, more and more, on the dupes being important instead of just being one component of the system. Maybe I've played too much Factorio and Dwarf Fortress, but I don't consider Nails the Fourth to be important. Nor would I want them to be. I do want '20% of your dupes require more morale boosters' though. The same way I care about 'You're draining your batteries off 10% faster than you can refill them'. I also consider 16 dupes the absolute minimum of a base. Takes too long to do anything otherwise, and I usually prefer 24 to 32 dupes. I've had a lot of fun with the game, but ever since expressive (yes, that far) I've been losing more and more interest as the game has changed from an adventure in base building to powering the dupe's video games. I don't WANT to care about the dupes. I truly don't. Well, not unless they do something fantastic like skin Meep into an amulet or something. Then they can aspire to Botanist Cool. Breaks are good. If you take one, I recommend a completely different game genre though. Resets the mind. EDIT (for typo too) I should add the current skill system vs the old one is basically a wash in my mind. If it takes me 110 cycles to get an astronaut, it takes me 110 cycles to get an astronaut. I don't really care how it gets there. What I care about is if those 110 cycles were worth playing while I waited.
  3. Allergies from plants. Early game Bristle Blossoms cause it.
  4. In some ways we are. I like to speed run and I simply don't have the free time I used to have as I've gotten older so speedrunning is how I can still enjoy a game without having to invest months of time for a single session. DF/Rimworld/etc are all things I've learned to play quickly, partially for that reason. The other part is I enjoy the challenge. However, I agree with the sentiment that reeds, a base material that is used for other projects, shouldn't suddenly be a massive bottleneck that you have to choose for construction. That I can build it in 50 cycles and someone else takes 200 shouldn't necessarily be a concern. My concern that I *was* trying to bring up, poorly apparently, is that the game play time should NOT be a constraint to anyone who continues on building what they choose. I'd like to see alternate approaches to some of these challenges, and reeds are an obvious indicator of what I'm talking about. Allow me to try to make why I feel using time as a constraint is something I don't feel adds to the game: I want more water? I hunt down and infrastructure up whatever geysers I can find. There's a hard limit here somewhere on every map seed of what's available. That's an interesting and fun limitation. I want PWater? I want more of it? I start trading water for oil wells and process it through petrogens or NGGs and get my PWater from the output and the CO2 + skimmers. Another interesting design challenge, and plays with the idea of limitations and conversions. Add in a Petro Boiler or a Sour Gas converter and you're even water positive. However, these limits are actually to base size limitations in the end. It's all about how can you support X # of dupes. Food isn't a concern, Wooly/Lily or Vole/Regolith ranching is water free and endless, and there's enough wild pincha that they are basically nearly ignorable as a constraint. Early/mid is most easily handled with rock hatches + igneous. Power? Solar + Petrogens are so strong in end game that there's basically nothing else you need. So the only survival need is the water in the long haul. You build it and it's done. If you have conquered all of these base needs for the end game, adding a time constraint to reed production should not be the limiter. You're reducing your base survival components you've already successfully completed (water consumption) and adding a 2 cycle delay on it. You're adding more dupes to your system than you previously needed (ranchers who may or may not even be trained) for shearing, and adding (at best) an 8 cycle delay on it. This is a time lock out. Similar to "Want to go to space today? Wait until you've got enough xp, because you can't change THAT" time lockouts of doing what you know HOW to do I don't feel adds to gameplay. Time should add constraints and interesting challenges. Time should not add playtime simply because I'm bored while I'm waiting for things to grow/level up. EDIT: Of course after I walk away I remember a great example. ROG in Don't Starve has summer. Summer has one or two possible ways of approaching it. The forced time is enough that you basically have to choose one the first year. Either you handle fires, heat, and cooling, or you handle moving into the caves and sanity problems far earlier than most players would like. I had gotten to the points where I was typically raiding the ruins the second year in the caves, but that's how I like to play. A player who prefers a slower tempo and pacing can use a number of options for low risk eventual reward. A player who likes a high tempo can go High Risk/High Reward. There were options in the game that the timers didn't punish you for being faster. Even before ROG since it was basically always night anyway in the base game and you didn't want the deerclops obliterating your stuff, you'd collect cold gear and head underground to explore/wait it out.
  5. While I was offering solutions to the problem, and which is what I usually do, I agree with fiber production should not start 100s of cycles before you're hoping to have enough to use it in mass. This is partially because I don't *want* to play a base longer than 200-300 cycles. There really needs to come a point where 'I'm done' is a win condition. This, to me, should never be longer than 24 hours of user time. That is, at 3x speed, 24 * 12 cycles = ~300 cycles, not including pause times. At normal speed if you include a few larger pause times, that's roughly 100-120 cycles. It is also partially because reeds are a really odd limiter. Super Coolant can be used for power positive cool steam and doesn't require much as long as your piping is contained, and is only limited by the rocket components. Thermite can practically ignore most heat concerns, and requires only Tungsten to mass produce once you have an initial starter amount. Insulation requires a massive resource dump to use because of the amount of kg of it you need for small to medium sized projects. Reeds have always been a bottleneck for early/midgame though. They're fine for that. Exosuit or painting? Ranch early for clothing or skip it entirely? Somewhere around here is a thread that says 'How long have you played'. I personally feel that anyone with over 1000 hours should not simply offer "Build Better" to the majority of the playerbase as a solution to this problem. The problem exists. "I've got rockets! I can make Insulation! I … now need to have built my base 200 cycles ago and have been mass collecting this stuff?!" is a complete and utter buzzkill for what should have been a "Fun and Exciting" moment. Reeds do exactly what they should, I feel. They are an early/midgame bottleneck that you can learn to conquer if you care. Rocket materials production however I do not feel even has a place in the conversation. I do hope that the reed requirements are something that's going to replaced in the future with the new biomes on 1.0 release. They've never made sense to me for Insulation and I agree that it requires far more base material resource gathering than it should.
  6. Insulation is rarely needed, if ever. Vacuum sealing in the LOX/LH chambers gives you equivalent results for a ton less work, and is amazingly efficient if you do it next to space, where you usually need LOX/LH for your rockets. I disagree. Petrogens + oil geysers provide me power and manufactured slush geysers. Coupled with a few random water geysers of whatever form and you've got plenty to work with, usually. I typically build igneous for my LOX/LH systems near the surface and use vacuum seals. Same with the petro boiler. If I need to build an equivalent system somewhere deeper in the base that will eventually be permanently sealed, a handful of pumps and a liquid lock can do. The only time I personally bother with Ceramic or Insulation is when I want dupes to get in and out (thus, not sealed) and don't want to have to deal with a serious airlock system. Similar to @Neotuck, I rarely have issues with my pipes. I have, however, started simply using insulated 'anything' (usually granite) pipes and using a flow to return it to the basin when the fueling is complete. Just put an element sensor after the fuel line and shut off the circuit with a reset once the tanks are full, and let it flow back to the basin. Just use a smaller room with glum if you're only after the reeds. 20% food consumption, maximum fiber gain. 2.5 drecko/plant! Works wonderfully, if a bit evil.
  7. I personally would not like to see the water consumed by the Ice-E. If that happens, the fan will go back to the status of the Hydrofan: Not powerful enough for the permanent water costs. My understanding is this equipment is a stop gap for early / mid bases before you go whole hog on industrial sized solutions. Deleting precious early water would make it a completely newb trap item again. Making it not transfer coldness to the local area makes it a dupe time sink better spent in other places, like insulated walling up the entire base to keep your mealwood cool. I believe the problem here is the Ice-E fan is actually fine. Take out the ice maker, and it does exactly as advertised for the mined ice/polluted ice you have from raiding an ice biome. However, with the Ice Maker overly powerful for temperature conversion, it can be abused heavily. There are plenty of OTHER things that do the same process, but not in the early game. For example, the sieve is actually a heating unit for the lavatory loop, since you usually want the plants around it about 10-13C lower than it resets any used water to. That same item, used to delete 55C+ of heat from PWater to water, is incredibly powerful. However, using that power requires a few other components... one of which is even a way to move heat into the water where it needs to go. Excess polluted water AND Cool Steam/Aquatuners/Etc. make the sieve as powerful as it is for the fixed temperature, not the sieve by itself. The only particular issue I see the ice maker creating is that it's too simple and straight forward for the deletion power it has. It is a one-step process. The problem is unless you're going to design heat rooms that have minimal dupe run times so their ice won't melt before they get it where it's going, a local heat exchange will become near useless. After using a stopwatch in 1x speed a few times, I'm seeing about 1F / second of cooling for the 50kg of water. That's 116.1 kDTU for the 4.5 kDTU of the ice maker. I'm don't know what the solution is. I just want the ice maker to be viable in early/mid game without making higher tech solutions (Aquatuner/sieve for example) to be outclassed before they even get there. The most obvious solution that I can think of is to make it dupe time expensive. So, it can fix spot level problems, but it's not a long term/fix anything everywhere solution. This would keep the heat from using it to be far too strong for an early base to contend with, but it's not something you'd use except in a pinch. If you want to keep it in line with the majority of the heat deletion techniques (using petro/NG in the generators, etc) then decouple the Ice-E from the Icemaker. Put in 100 kg of water, get 50kg of ice out. Tune to preference. Same cost as if you dug the ice from an ice biome. More complicated approaches (Wheezes and AETNs probably) could give you full kg of water-ice conversion (once they fix the mass duplication bugs).
  8. This list is not inclusive, but I've tried to hit the highlights from the detailed patch notes (I'm skipping all the big ones listed above). This is mostly for those who haven't been following all the beta test updates: More Hypothermia, but overall better than the vague 'can't reach that' problems. Yay! I wonder about the rest. Unconstructive/Builder, Tryptophobia/Digger, etc. Were these outliers just the worst offenders? 7 skill points to rocket piloting. I'm not sure if the speed is still only a 10% boost. More of these are desired for late game. For me in particular, this was a highlight. Drove me nuts. Thanks Devs! This. Is. Huge. This will be a particularly nice change, especially for those of us who think something is dormant and suddenly isn't in the middle of researching it! Typo in the patch notes, you can now. Yay! You can still "open ranch", you just have to leave the doors open. However, it will depend on the vagueness of when the critters move around as to what effect you'll have at any time within the actual stable area(s). Ranching now at least has a purpose, though. Is there a confirmation of if they'll store methane "emissions" as well? True QOL changes. That should help! This sounds important? I'm not sure. I believe these are mostly for those of us who use windowed mode instead of full screen. Helps tremendously, thank you. As I mentioned, these aren't all inclusive, and I recommend you read the patch notes for the full list. This is all most of the things that are in my personal highlight reel.
  9. [Game Update] - 322934

    True, but the polluted water mass usually keeps the slime balanced out. As a workaround solution to your particular concern, insulation has been added to the compactors. Set them to, say, 4 tons, set them to deliver ice next to your icedrofan (gods that desperately needs a new name) and your couriers can drop off 1600 kg/trip to the local storage which you can then stick into the fan 50kg a time in much shorter trips.
  10. [Game Update] - 322934

    While I applaud your adoption of the new tech, I don't think chilling down *biomes* is what they're made for.
  11. [Game Update] - 322934

    In regards to skill points and the overall xp progress, some observations. It's too easy to assign a skill point accidentally. Order of operations: Skill Point is notified. Click on bar to bring up skills screen to correct dupe. Click X to close the skill notification. Miss. Assign mining to your farmer. Have no way to reverse that mistake other than a reload from the autosave. Even when gaming the system early xp takes too long to get a dupe rolling. I understand the 15 skill / 250 cycle target, but even abusing the system you can't get more than 2 skill points in 15 cycles. The first skill point takes, usually, 4-5 cycles to get rolling. I've already got another dupe queued and delivered before the first one can even start really doing his job. If you don't have a, for example, miner on cycle 1, you're really going to hurt for things like abyssalite mining before cycle 20. An average specialist should be able to get 4 skill points reasonably quickly. For example, and architect should be able to get level 2 construction and Courier so they can bring supplies to the build site themselves. A miner would by able to get to abyssalite reasonably quickly. I assume the current restrictions are because 3 skill points makes a master painter/chef and this is not desired. I believe these issues can be fixed relatively easily: Do not harden the last skill point assigned until after you've left the skills screen. Rt-Click should let you remove the skill point and reassign it until you have left. At that point, it's permanent. Allow a dupe on printing to have a single skill point on arrival. That will allow locked skills, like cooks, artists, etc to be able to be used immediately. Adjust the xp required to have a steeper slope. Right now the ^(1/1.44) is too shallow. Make it steeper so that early skill points (say 2 or 3 of them) are more easily acquired for specialists. Allow an equivalent ratio for the later skill points to keep the C250 / 15 Skill. Basically spike the beginning and increase the ending. Make a dupe's character level (# of skill points acquired) limit when they can assign upper level choices. For example, your artist starts at no restriction for Art Fundamentals, Char Level 3 for Aestetic Design, and Char Level 5 for Masterworks. This would allow the skill points to continue to be earned, but also gate the upper skill levels for those skill abilities that are desired to be gated. If this is too complex, make it easier: Aestetic Design costs 2 skill levels, Masterworks costs 3. So, you'll have to bank skill points for these specialists.
  12. [Game Update] - 322934

    With a runner taking 4-5 cycles to get a skill point now, first skill level for chefs, artists, etc are somewhat more difficult than it used to be when they were able to get their starter skills rolling immediately. I'd like to see first skill point be available on printing for a dupe to try to counteract this, even if we lose that first xp cost for skills for the first 'earned' point.
  13. So I'm currently abusing the new xp system with enthusiasm and I've realized I've tried to figure this out before but with not much luck. The basic principal is I want my manual generator to be the primary power system, and coal to be the backup without smart batteries as the control technique. This is mostly because I want my manual generator to be running non-stop at all times except when the dupe in question is eating, sleeping, and toileting. My other preference is a minimal amount of refined metals to not have to abuse the crusher, as I want to install this before I get a refinery rolling. Preferably starting the ground work between cycles 4 and 6. I've tried doing some strange things with transformers but that wasn't helpful. I'm assuming the correct answer is going to be using a power shutoff somewhere, but I can't really determine how to attach that outside of smart battery controls. In previous testing I've found that you can't trust the order of priority for your devices after a save reload, so a string of lights from left to right might end up staggered, on the right side later, or other issues. Has anyone figured this out, or have some ideas that I might be able to use?
  14. New drecko behavior

    This issue has been marked as fixed in the bug tracker. Shall we table the discussion until the next hotfix?
  15. New drecko behavior

    Up near the second page, there's some animated gifs of that not being true. Airlocks have always allowed passage, pneumatics that were not set to *open* did not. There's a change of logic for critters, at the very least dreckos which I tested, between QOL2 and 3. Grab a save and setup a small test beween the two with a ranch you've setup. Or take the one I linked in that post if you want for an example. Flip between the live and the test branch. You'll see significant differences. The most likely suspect is that when they fixed doors, they fixed pneumatic doors as well which had different rules. I'm hoping it was an oversight and that pneumatics will still behave the way they did. If not, that's... unfortunate. Ranching is already unwieldy enough that I've given up on it except for the absolute best ones (glossy and vole), and even that is in limited volumes.
  16. Power Priority Control(s)

    It's possible. I'm adding more load into the system as I go. I'll have a more costly grid up shortly.
  17. Power Priority Control(s)

    @KittenIsAGeek I'm getting a weird event here. My manual generator is on the high side attached to the lower event. It thinks the batteries are full. They *are*, actually, but I'd expected the transformer to not know that. However, a small battery next to the manual generator seems to control the issue. EDIT: Upon further tinkering and removing the small battery, it may have something to do with save/reload and the power grid.
  18. New drecko behavior

    QOL Mk2. I reverted the version and grabbed some old saves. Voles and Dreckos: QOL3 has different behavior. I've attached the save for checking. T - C150 - State of the Base Cycle 151.sav
  19. New drecko behavior

    Steel Airlock when opening/closing can let a vole out. Steel Pneumatic cannot, unless it's set to *open*.
  20. New drecko behavior

    Pneumatic doors have always been an outlier. Mechanical doors are just as quick and allow escapees. Pneumatics, particularly steel pneumatics on auto, can't even get a vole out. Mechanical Airlocks do. I should probably say *did*. I haven't ranched in QOL3 yet, so I haven't see the odd behavior. I have however seen dreckos hanging off open *auto* doors and not going through them. I've ranched through multiple versions, and the pneumatic vs. airlock discrepancy has existed for a good while. *open* doors? Yeah, right on through. *auto* doors can stand there with a dupe in the doorway and nothing wandered by. This is not luck. This used to be a way to trap critters without having to do crazy things. It was practically necessary for vole ranching other than using tube access.
  21. An operator glued to his hamster wheel starting on cycle 1/2 is able to get the 8 skill points needed before cycle 25 for an astronaut.
  22. On a side note, one of the things I really like about this is your Astronaut is now trained by cycle 25 by running on the hamster wheels since cycle 1. I imagine a dupe on a treadmill reading nothing but training manuals on a stand in front of them all day while they run.
  23. Power Priority Control(s)

    Similar to @Saturnus, I setup multi-shifting before I unpause the game on cycle 1. I typically pre-build 10-12 different shifts, while also adjusting all my priorities and disinfecting values. I also have more power draw on cycle 6 than most players. On average I've now got two researchers using 2 of the 3 research areas (1 super, 2 benches), 2 diffusers, and a water pump. The objective of this was instead of doing a direct coal switch was to use the runner *as much as possible* for xp gains, and support extra energy costs with the coal generator(s). On a side note, even a weak version of these setups has astronauts ready before cycle 25. @KittenIsAGeek Please don't start stepping away when you offer assistance. Your help was/is appreciated. While Saturnus is correct that I asked for a non smart battery version, your example showed me it was basically impossible without spending more refined metal than any other solution, such as Saturnus' ideas. He extrapolated them further on the Discord channel and at that point I think it was... double?... the amount of refined metal. In general, thank you both for your assistance. They've given me a lot of new ideas to play with and perhaps a few workarounds to other issues I've had as well.
  24. I'll know for sure when I get a proper setup going off the new game for QOL3, but my release day tests of late game saves showed that's already leagues better. Thank you again!
  25. Power Priority Control(s)

    When the dupe is running, you shut off external power draw via the power Shutoff or shut off the coal generator. Nope, the problem is I need both sometimes, but I want the wheel as the primary choice. occasionally I need 1 kw of generator, sometimes I just need the 400. Sometimes I need 600 of charge, and that's when I want the coal to shut off *eventually* but leave the dupe running. Edit: Final state is that the dupe needed sleep so the generator needs to handle the load for a while.