Regarding the upcoming NatGas/FertSynth rework...

[Nativel]

Just now, avc15 said:

I don't remember the exact temp you have to get it to, something like 125C?

Блажен кто верит. I don't know how to say it on english, some thing like in got we trust.

[Kiros]

The resource loop surrounding fert synths, NG gens, slicksters and PWater geysers were completely broken. If done right, you'd have 12kW of continuous power without even touching coal, steam or petro sources. It had to be nerfed. That being said, when they fix the steam turbine heat block bug, I think the turbine's temp requirements should be nerfed, or at the very least we should have a way to heat up and move around steam of that temp.

[Neotuck]

4 hours ago, chemie said:

I now see my blossom/wheat food source (berry mush) going to wild wheat harvest (just not worth making the fertilizer)

Why?  Farm stations are now the only thing that uses fertilizer so farming sleet wheat should be easier 

 

[chemie]

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

Why?  Farm stations are now the only thing that uses fertilizer so farming sleet wheat should be easier 

 

Full renewable...see my original post.

But yes, if you mine the phosporite, then I guess it is an option.

[abud]

33 minutes ago, chemie said:

But yes, if you mine the phosporite, then I guess it is an option.

Or phosphorite from drecko. Just wild common drecko eating balm lily in chlorine room without need dupe attention, tame them if we need more phosphorite.

[Sevio]

13 hours ago, juni3227 said:

BTW, is there any way to make dirt other then composeter? Cooking slime or Algae? seriously? We really need to talk about this. Dirt can not be recycled. There must be an way. Like adding fertilizer and phorspherite into clay or sand with PW or whatever... Also fertilzer synthesiser consumes phospherite and PW only. Dirt is too much...

Everyone who thinks that without infinite free fertilizer you can't resupply your dirt, you need to invert the process in your head now. Take another good look at the Water Sieve. It turns filtration medium + 5 kg/s polluted water into 200 g/s of polluted dirt and 5 kg/s of water. Composting that is how you make your dirt now. And with that dirt you make fertilizer to let your plants grow faster. (and save on water/slime/etc)

Each water Sieve + 2 composters is enough to power 12 mealwood plants.

Or assuming you convert part of that dirt to fertilizer, 9.6 mealwood plants being buffed by a farm station, which yield the same as as 19.2 mealwood plants. (forgot you can't buff mealwood plants with farm stations)

Also, for every 60 g of dirt you make 120 g of fertilizer, so if you really must, you can still effectively convert some pWater and Phosphorite into dirt. (forgot about the 50% mass loss from mining)

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

I don't think I will ever build a fert synth. after current patch. Not worth the effort. I would say transporting phosphorite and the dirt alone would make fert. synth a deal-breaker for me.

Problem is you need to, b/c it is the only source of fertilizer. The compost only produces dirt.

[WanderingKid]

16 minutes ago, Sevio said:

Each water Sieve + 2 composters is enough to power 12 mealwood plants, or assuming you convert part of that dirt to fertilizer, 9.6 mealwood plants being buffed by a farm station, which yield the same as as 19.2 mealwood plants.

Mealwood can't be buffed at the station, unless that changed too.

[ShadowOfALegend]

time to convert to coal gens for power usage but don't expect me to tackle a steam generator

[Sevio]

3 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

Mealwood can't be buffed at the station, unless that changed too.

Decided to give it a go in Cosmic to make sure and you are correct, so it looks like fertilizer is only a dirt-saving measure for sleet wheat. Another incentive to move to Mushrooms and Bristle Blossoms.

[Denisetwin]

9 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

I don't think I will ever build a fert synth. after current patch

This.  Which also means I will no longer be ranching sage hatches.  I HATE the change.  I don't mind having to have a little offsetting power, but to me, once I get my whole power plant up and running in mid-game I don't want to keep messing around trying to get enough power to build the cool things I want to build!  That is NOT fun!    

[PhailRaptor]

Worth noting that if you are really hard up for Dirt, you can use a FertSynth to double up your Dirt, by cooking the Fertilizer back to Dirt.  60 g/s Dirt into the FertSynth to produce 120 g/s Fertilizer, cook that 120 g/s back into Dirt.  This also assumes, though, that you can offset the P-H2O and Phosphorite costs, both of which are less than the Dirt.

[Lilalaunekuh]

2 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

Worth noting that if you are really hard up for Dirt, you can use a FertSynth to double up your Dirt, by cooking the Fertilizer back to Dirt.  60 g/s Dirt into the FertSynth to produce 120 g/s Fertilizer, cook that 120 g/s back into Dirt.  This also assumes, though, that you can offset the P-H2O and Phosphorite costs, both of which are less than the Dirt.

But you need to DIG that dirt up to use it again, resulting in a 50% mass loss

[PhailRaptor]

Just now, Lilalaunekuh said:

But you need to DIG that dirt up to use it again, resulting in a 50% mass loss

......it produces enough to brick itself over?

ಠ_ಠ

We're gonna need a new plan...

[Denisetwin]

8 hours ago, WanderingKid said:

The next 'stop' on the power train was NGG.  That's out now.  You drive either straight up or straight down now.  Head for solar, or burrow into the oil fields.  Both of these are end game power systems that require significant investment in resources and time.  The 'middle layer' for power just evaporated.  I hope that the devs have an idea for how to keep NGG as a middle of the road power source, and not just something you end up tacking onto the oil system because "It's there anyway..."

This.  This is exactly the way I play.  Coal for first and to supplement later, hydrogen runs my air systems, and I'm always so happy when my game finally reaches a point that at last I can set up a big fert. maker / NG generator power plant and that's what i use to power the "cool" builds late game, including power hungry aquatuners etc.    

If Fert Makers stay nerfed so badly, I can't run sage hatch farms either.  There needs to be a source of renewable algae in the game.  Can't farm pacu because there is not, and if fert. are nerfed, can't farm sages either.  very sad over here.

[Sevio]

16 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

But you need to DIG that dirt up to use it again, resulting in a 50% mass loss

Hm... I've never gone this far into automation, but could you use machines to store a limited amount of fertilizer in lots of smart compactors, then heat up the environment to the conversion temperature? That way the fertilizer would convert inside the compactor and not need to be dug up.

Or even just use a vacuum room with exosuit access and have dupes manage the compactors.

[Neotuck]

14 minutes ago, Sevio said:

Hm... I've never gone this far into automation, but could you use machines to store a limited amount of fertilizer in lots of smart compactors, then heat up the environment to the conversion temperature? That way the fertilizer would convert inside the compactor and not need to be dug up.

Or even just use a vacuum room with exosuit access and have dupes manage the compactors.

No it will still drop from a compactor and you will need to dig it up at 50% loss

[Sevio]

16 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

No it will still drop from a compactor and you will need to dig it up at 50% loss

Did some experimentation of my own to see what would happen and I'm surprised at how high the stacks of dirt blocks go each time you put a new chunk of fertilizer in a hot compactor. I guess it would reach to the top of the world and ultimately delete the fertilizer if you still kept going.

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Sevio said:

Did some experimentation of my own to see what would happen and I'm surprised at how high the stacks of dirt blocks go each time you put a new chunk of fertilizer in a hot compactor. I guess it would reach to the top of the world and ultimately delete the fertilizer if you still kept going.

Yes the dirt will form a tile and if the tile is blocked it will go above the tile until it finds a free space.

[bountygiver]

2 hours ago, WanderingKid said:

Mealwood can't be buffed at the station, unless that changed too.

exactly, what he said is the farm station is now no longer worth the effort because we used it to save resources, now all the resources you saved are needed to be used when producing said fertillizers

[ShadowOfALegend]

sounds like making blown up farms without farming stations will be a thing

[Man in the Mist]

Why are people saying that there's no point in farming Sage Hatches?  They're just as happy to eat dirt as they are fertilizer.

[DyingCrow]

I find solar power to be quite the trap, as it is. After a meteor shower with regolith piling at over 200c, when the bunker doors open and stuff drops down, things cook. Just the temperature that is transferred around the structure is hard enough to keep under control as it seeps inside. This will then require a cooling solution, and when you account for powering bunker doors and meteor scanners, the solar array has to be scaled up to output any significant excess power for cooling, which will eventually net near zero positive power, so were building something that will basically power itself with no benefits. The larger the whole array is, the harder it is to maintain, lots of dupe babysitting required to clean all the meteor crap and fix broken stuff. And player babysitting.

Its cool stuff, but id wish they gave it some more thought before making it available :/

I agree with many others who say the fertilizer+natg situation needed to be addressed, it was a win button that could be pushed right after the initial food situation was stabilized, very early. Then it was just a matter of scaling it for more stuff to be plugged into the circuit.

My fear with ONI is that theyre pushing stuff out quickly, but keeping balance (or the lack of) in the high stakes. It may or may not make the game less fun to follow, play and explore, add the absurdly bad rng some maps have with geysers, and playing it off sandbox mode as a "challenge" may be coming closer to a fool's errand. Maybe Klei should stop for a minute, look at everything and change a few values here and there, so it's still enjoyable for us

However, this will be great for boiling water, cooking dirt and whatnot. Maybe even yet another way to power steam turbines.

[Neotuck]

I think I would still use the fertilizer synthesizers just not for power production any more.

The phosphate requirements are low enough that a single drecko stable should provide an infinite supply

And dirt is much easier to produce from compost 

[Kabrute]