Volcanoes should not produce refined metals

[Technoincubus]

Common unrefined ones shoudld be their products. Because now the very fact that volcanoes exist removes entire metal refining branch of industry from the game.

Generally, after I discover a volcano, I no longer need any refined metal at all because they usually produce them en masse and only problem is the temperature.

But Metal refinery station, granulator, and smooth hatches are no longer needed. This is a serious oversight IMO and should be balanced in favor of unrefined metal production to bring back refinement to the game.

[Kiros]

I agree, since some buildings/items can only be built with ore, and ore is currently finite.

[landromat]

24 minutes ago, Technoincubus said:

Common unrefined ones shoudld be their products. Because now the very fact that volcanoes exist removes entire metal refining branch of industry from the game.

Generally, after I discover a volcano, I no longer need any refined metal at all because they usually produce them en masse and only problem is the temperature.

But Metal refinery station, granulator, and smooth hatches are no longer needed. This is a serious oversight IMO and should be balanced in favor of unrefined metal production to bring back refinement to the game.

but they can't. All vents and volcanos can produce Gase or liquid only. Raw metal becomes refined metal if it melts. There is no way to make volcanos produce raw metal if you don't want to change game physics. I think smooth hatches should be changed and produce raw metal instead of refined And nerf volcanos refined metal production rate

[BlueLance]

I would prefer if they spewed out the raw metals, but the problem is that metal becomes refined when it melts

Personally I do not refine metal unless I need it, so I can use the volcanoes and keep the raw metal for other things, Another way to alleviate this would be allowing buildings to be built out of both materials after unlocking a research.

Edit - Or like landromat mentions maybe making smooth hatches eat refined metal and poop out raw metals which i would prefer.

[Technoincubus]

I don't think it would be THAT hard to make volcanoes erupt actual metal, instead of gaseous one

[Ambaire]

4 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

I don't think it would be THAT hard to make volcanoes erupt actual metal, instead of gaseous one

No volcano emits 'gaseous' metal. And molten metal is actual metal.

[Lilalaunekuh]

14 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Or like landromat mentions maybe making smooth hatches eat refined metal and poop out raw metals which i would prefer.

Had the same idea, to give the cool-looking smooth hatches a place in a late game base.

(Right now there is no real place for the smooth hatch. Just if you are really lucky and find one in the first cycles there is little benefit in using them.)

 

But to get back to the topic here:

I would say it´s strange that volcanoes output "100% pure, conductive metals", but ore doesn´t sound right to me either. But I prefer the refined metals as output (not saying there shouldn´t be a way to generate more ore).

(Or if I could make a wish: Merge all volcanoes or make a volcano that has a mixed (doesn´t need to be at the same time, could be like a erruption using multiple stages with different ouputs or different times for different ouputs ?) output. Would feel more like the "filthy" molten liquid that a volcano should errupt.)

[FullMetalArthur]

Speaking of which, how do you cool down the 600C refined metal from the volcano?

In my case it was in the middle of a cold biome and I only dug up the bottom part, which has saved me from producing heat so far, but the metal its a 600C. Can't make dupes to pick it up or they get burn. I was thiking about a sweper, but then what, where do I dump all that heat?

[Technoincubus]

Still, we have a ridiculous situation where raw metal is finite and refined is infinite. And a branch of industry is simply not needed

[avc15]

6 minutes ago, Technoincubus said:

a branch of industry is simply not needed

In the very late game you can put your refining station to rest, replacing the whole thing with a thermal heating/cooling system.

Same as in the very late game you can put your petroleum refinery building to rest, replacing the whole thing with a mechanical thermal system as well.

Is this really a huge problem? You still build a metal refinery. If you REALLY didn't want to you could get away with not doing so but it'd probably slow your build down substantially.

[Lilalaunekuh]

But right now I start build a metal refinery (granulator is just used to make sand), so I already skip most of this industry branch.

So after cycle 50-100, there is no real use for a refining metal at all (if you got at least one volcano, and i would start a map without at least one).

Even tungsten is not really that usefull anymore (radiant pipes out of gold/iron are superior). If you want to build a radiator in a hot place, where you could exceed the melting point of gold, your liquid will be the problem (if you can keep your pipes from breaking you could do it easier if you had build gold/iron pipes instead of tungsten).

If there would at least be a "real" use for tungsten in the late game, we would at least have a reason to keep a refinery

(Would love your input about the "use-cases" where tungsten is "the best" material.)

[thewreckedangle]

i have to disagree and say no. please do not make that change. it is part of the challenge to manage your materials. the fact that there is a low/no tech way to get these things is amazing, not everyone likes to or knows how to build automation and complex power structures not to mention dealing with all the side effects of such. the smooth hatches are awesome

[NurdRage]

I actually think the chemistry SHOULD be re-tweaked. And maybe have different outcomes for different materials

Molten metal should actually become metal ore again. And heating metal ore just produces molten metal ore, it doesn't convert into metal.

This would actually follow real life:

Molten iron oxidizes in air into iron oxide... the ore that iron comes from. If you heat up iron oxide it's just liquid iron oxide lava. You have to refine it again to get back the iron.

Same thing happens with copper. Molten copper oxidizes into copper oxide. 

The reverse happens with gold. Heating gold amalgam produces gold metal (and mercury vapor) in real life. 

 

Having different outcomes might actually be more fun if you like random plays. Just like scoring a natural gas geyser that gives free power. If you score a gold volcano you get free metal. But if you score an iron or copper volcano then you get their ores and have to build your metal refining system. Keeps the game interesting that way. 

[Technoincubus]

For me, once I have automated refined metal cooling from volcanoe, I start to replace all my wires with conductive and heavy conductives and try to use refined metals for everything else as they are from stable source. And still I am not using metal refinery because theyre is no need to, even with cosmic update.

[Kabrute]

especially with.... cycle 130 made it to the surface to start farming refined sky iron.....

[Yunru]

On 5/26/2018 at 4:44 PM, avc15 said:

Is this really a huge problem? You still build a metal refinery. If you REALLY didn't want to you could get away with not doing so but it'd probably slow your build down substantially.

To be fair, I don't. I just use a volcano to melt my ore via storage compactors/doors.

[BlueLance]

Just now, Yunru said:

To be fair, I don't. I just use a volcano to melt my ore via storage compactors/doors.

I feed mine to hatches! 

[JonnyMonroe]

On 5/26/2018 at 3:11 PM, FullMetalArthur said:

Speaking of which, how do you cool down the 600C refined metal from the volcano?

In my case it was in the middle of a cold biome and I only dug up the bottom part, which has saved me from producing heat so far, but the metal its a 600C. Can't make dupes to pick it up or they get burn. I was thiking about a sweper, but then what, where do I dump all that heat?

How complex a solution are you looking for? The simplest solution is to make an insulated room around the volcano with space beneath and a bath of water for the metal to flow into. Metals have really low heat capacity so even though they're hot they will cool down fast in water without having much impact on the water temp. Just make a liquid lock entrance that is part of the water bath itself and dupes will be fine to pick it up. This is the absolute simplest solution and will last a few hundred cycles without cooling before the water gets too warm. After that you can start cooling the water by whatever means you want or start building something more complex to make use of the heat or use sweepers to save dupe time or whatever.

5 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

For me, once I have automated refined metal cooling from volcanoe, I start to replace all my wires with conductive and heavy conductives and try to use refined metals for everything else as they are from stable source. And still I am not using metal refinery because theyre is no need to, even with cosmic update.

You don't use steel?

[BlueLance]

9 minutes ago, JonnyMonroe said:

You don't use steel?

Im in the same boat, I have not touched the metal refinery, steel or the kiln. 

[JonnyMonroe]

3 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

Im in the same boat, I have not touched the metal refinery, steel or the kiln. 

I can imagine a base not needing steel but to do so means you're ignoring solar power, and possibly all surface access, as well as limiting what you can do with sweepers and other machinery in hot environments.

[BlueLance]

2 minutes ago, JonnyMonroe said:

I can imagine a base not needing steel but to do so means you're ignoring solar power, and possibly all surface access, as well as limiting what you can do with sweepers and other machinery in hot environments.

I am definently limiting myself from the surface XD its pretty high up on my map. I also don't have much reason at the moment to go up that high. 

Other than sweepers I am not sure what other machinery benefits from steel that would be used in a hot environment? Even my steam turbine can go over 1000C already.

[Yunru]

Smart Storage is the one that comes immediately to mind for me... but only because it's needed for my volcano refinery setup (well, at least for the version where I don't have to keep replacing compactors/doors).

[JonnyMonroe]

6 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

I am definently limiting myself from the surface XD its pretty high up on my map. I also don't have much reason at the moment to go up that high. 

Other than sweepers I am not sure what other machinery benefits from steel that would be used in a hot environment? Even my steam turbine can go over 1000C already.

Sweepers, loaders, gas/liquid shutoffs, bunkers and bunker doors are what I need steel for. I use a space boiler for realistic cooling and the liquid shutoff bypass is exposed to steam that exceeds 125c. 10kg per shutoff is pretty forgiving though.

[Exa]

On 25/05/2018 at 12:08 PM, landromat said:

but they can't. All vents and volcanos can produce Gase or liquid only. Raw metal becomes refined metal if it melts. There is no way to make volcanos produce raw metal if you don't want to change game physics. I think smooth hatches should be changed and produce raw metal instead of refined And nerf volcanos refined metal production rate

Devs can create a special liquid state for raw metal who solidify into raw metal who itself melts into refined metal

then they make volcano spit that liquid instead of regular melted metal

phase changes doesn't have to be the same in both way

exemple : polluted water turn into steam who turn back into water

so the game engine already allows this

[BlueLance]

ooooh ok, I won't lie I dont use anything in a high temperature zone, I cap my volcanoes for a steam turbine build and the tungsten wires etc do the job, and I condense the steam before it gets to my pumps. I do need to change the system so that I can excavate the materials from the volcano at some point but to cool down 90T of Molten Gold it will take a while before I need to worry about it.

4 minutes ago, Exa said:

Devs can create a special liquid state for raw metal who solidify into raw metal who itself melts into refined metal

This is quite possibly the best answer to it, like you said it happens with polluted water and oxygen.