DubbleTwice Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Hi, Love the game. It's too bloody hard. I have never-ever progressed to the end game content. I can never make it past the change from the tier 1 oxygen generation tech. Here is the problem ... it take HOURS to play up to the transition to the tier 2 oxygen tech and the seeds of my destruction are sown LOOONG before I get there. As I attempt this transition I'm already dead. Additionally, I NEVER can get any practice at making the transition from tier 1 to tier 2, because it takes hours and hours to get to that stage and an hour to transition. I never get a chance to practice. So this what I mean when I say the game is too hard. ... Beautiful, beautiful game ... but un-playable. Ok here is my recommendations. I need more fleshed our difficulty levels. More ways to make the game easier. eg in the world gen Flatten the tech tree perhaps? I have never once got a space suit for example. I never live to use what would help me live! I need the algae to last longer so I can make the transition. Could the difficulty levels effect the algae efficiency? Love the game ... but it's unplayable ... and by that I mean I don't get value for the time invested in a game. Best and Regards DT P.S - I'm do consider myself a serious "non-casual" gamer. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColBBQ Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Hard to tell where you messed up for us to fix it: Are you prioritizing your researched to rush through the tech tree? Are you farming mealwood or bristle berries? Are you overpopulating before you set up your base to handle the strain? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealKillface Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Don't forget, it's early access and only a portion of what the devs planned currently in the game. Difficulty will change every 6 weeks depending on the new content or revised "old" content. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifegrow Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 3 hours ago, DubbleTwice said: Love the game ... but it's unplayable ... and by that I mean I don't get value for the time invested in a game. P.S - I'm do consider myself a serious "non-casual" gamer. 261 hours is pretty good value surely? I've said many times that I don't envy new players to the game nowadays - there's a lot of additions and i'm sure theres a lot more to go yet. Fact is you need to keep trying and get better - not just ask for the game to be dumbed down because you deem it unplayable... Saying the game is "unplayable" on a forum that's filled with people actively playing the game is a bit like saying "the suns too hot!" on a beach filled with sun bathers... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutzkhie Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 we've all been there dont worry why dont you find an easy seed, play it for atleast 150cycles try to build mid-game techs then start a new game with the same seed but this time, youll have to catch up with your previous gameplay with lesser time cycles, its just for practicing speed-building Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SL33PW4LK Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Better to make a game for many, with several levels of difficulty, than a game for a few and sell less. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
trukogre Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, SL33PW4LK said: Better to make a game for many, with several levels of difficulty, than a game for a few and sell less. What makes you think the full release retail version won't have levels of difficulty? That said, the current game does have levels of difficulty, it just takes a few minutes of googling to figure out how to unlock it, at which point you can fully customize your level of difficulty manually. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGCat Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I am absolutely agree with Lifegrow. The most players haven't a problem with this game. The issue is, the players they find it too hard must change her gameplay or willing to learn new things and methods to play the game. Personally, the game is at the moment too easy and not too hard. Normally u can't fail if u have some experience. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 you can turn off stress and sickneses, so you don't need to care about 2 main parts of the game. SHould be much easier for you Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravityx Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Lifegrow said: 261 hours is pretty good value surely? I've said many times that I don't envy new players to the game nowadays - there's a lot of additions and i'm sure theres a lot more to go yet. Fact is you need to keep trying and get better - not just ask for the game to be dumbed down because you deem it unplayable... Saying the game is "unplayable" on a forum that's filled with people actively playing the game is a bit like saying "the suns too hot!" on a beach filled with sun bathers... tbh I can't even comprehend how someone with 261hrs (even on previous builds) would say the game is too hard on normal settings. 5 minutes ago, landromat said: you can turn off stress and sickneses, so you don't need to care about 2 main parts of the game. SHould be much easier for you Exactly. There already are settings for an easier mode. Go to CUSTOM GAME. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambaire Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Devs, please don't listen to the OP. The dupes may need some serious AI work so they don't derp out as much, but the game's existing balance is mostly fine imo, and I have ~200 hours in it, most of which is in the past month. Even with the new geysers, it isn't really that big of an issue. The biggest problem I have is getting bored with mid-game progression and starting a new game to try something new. I've only had one base get to semi-serious plastic production. I do play on 512x512 maps, so the biome sizes get pretty crazy. Picture an ice biome 8 times as big as the default map starting area. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataca Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Oxygen production is literally the least difficult part of the game. Just keep to 5-8 dupes, and you’ll easily get to cycle 80 with oxydizers. Meanwhile, dig out your base (but not the areas that are hot, just greenish) and send your miners through abyssalite tunnels to explore outwards. Those don’t conduct heat and you‘ll be able to find some cold biomes. Then, go find 4 wheezeworts in them. Build a „spom“ according to the blueprint in the forum. Hook up a water refinement system to it and one of the vast po2 reservoirs in a neighboring swamp biome. You are set for temp and o2 for days. Food and temperatures are going to become much more of an issue. Especially once you truly build some industry and start digging up geysers. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 @cataca I disagree with digging out the central base, you cut your thermal mass in half doing that, you lose tones of 20c material carving that out. Better to dig up the hot stuff so there is less of it around, in my opinion Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOlz Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 200+ hours is unplayable? Please check the definition of unplayable. Also, dev's please disregard OP's comment - the majority of users do not seem to have this problem as evidenced by forum posts here. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuQuasar Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 ONI's difficulty is a matter of knowledge, not skill. Research and tips are extremely valuable. If you know what to do and in which order it's actually a very easy game to play since it doesn't rely on any more subjective skills like reflexes or timing. Could you perhaps share a screenshot of your base? Chances are there are some things you're doing wrong or could be doing better, and the high-tier players on these forums can show you how to fix those problems and survive to the end game. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LokiGrants Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I get your frustation, I have it often when starting a new game but hey, you get there eventually. Just stay with fewer dupes at first, learn to count with what you can get and garantee you can build up the next tier with resources you have before you move on. It wont be that hard and you can customize your game. Hang in there, the frustation is nothing, really. Want a tip for someone who struggled with algae the same as you did? Move fast to Algae Distiller. Get that working, use less coal when you begin, save it and use dupes power with some batteries. Keep 3 dupes for a few cycles, get basic farm going well, having way more food than you need before getting a new dupe, then see if your food is dropping then build more. Turn on and off your O2 production when you reach max pressure and let it go down, keep an eye on it before it stresses your dupes. And do that till you get stable enough to use electrolyzers. Keep trying and learning, and searching, the forums are here for questions and helping others. But don't be that guy that comes here to complain. Seriously. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash70 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 9 hours ago, DubbleTwice said: Hi, Love the game. It's too bloody hard. I have never-ever progressed to the end game content. I can never make it past the change from the tier 1 oxygen generation tech. Here is the problem ... it take HOURS to play up to the transition to the tier 2 oxygen tech and the seeds of my destruction are sown LOOONG before I get there. As I attempt this transition I'm already dead. Additionally, I NEVER can get any practice at making the transition from tier 1 to tier 2, because it takes hours and hours to get to that stage and an hour to transition. I never get a chance to practice. So this what I mean when I say the game is too hard. ... Beautiful, beautiful game ... but un-playable. Ok here is my recommendations. I need more fleshed our difficulty levels. More ways to make the game easier. eg in the world gen Flatten the tech tree perhaps? I have never once got a space suit for example. I never live to use what would help me live! I need the algae to last longer so I can make the transition. Could the difficulty levels effect the algae efficiency? Love the game ... but it's unplayable ... and by that I mean I don't get value for the time invested in a game. Best and Regards DT P.S - I'm do consider myself a serious "non-casual" gamer. It is not that hard, make algae using distillers, then make sure you'll have enough water. You'll be fine. Btw, you should get exosuits for dupes, you're missing the oil biome. try this: 1-Build an 8x8 insulated room 2-Build an electrolyzer in the middle 3-Build a gas pump + gas filter 4-Put 1 wheezewort in there (optional) 5-Seal the room 6-Pump out oxygen to stations Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataca Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 5 hours ago, Kabrute said: @cataca I disagree with digging out the central base, you cut your thermal mass in half doing that, you lose tones of 20c material carving that out. Better to dig up the hot stuff so there is less of it around, in my opinion That is very true technically, but i loathe the clusters of dirt in the base. Personally, i encase it in abyssalite anyhow, so what matters to me is what is a. in the storage compactors, radiating heat b. crap getting built with, radiating heat because of hot building mats. While the heat radiating from the outside is a major thing in the first few cycles, i can entomb my colony way before that. But yes, if you prefer organic open bases, by all means. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsawn Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I sympathise with the OP. However the issue is not so much the diffiulty as the lack of communication/tutorials for new players. I've made many posts with suggestions to improve this. I expect by the final release it will be a lot more friendly for new players. Currently new players can make lots of mistakes right at the start, but don't become apparent until much later in the game by which time you can already have spent 20 hours and feel frustrated as a result. The biggest issues right now for new players which could easily be avoided with a few more tips/better ingame guidance: - Picking bad dupes at the start of the game - The importance of setting up farming very early and in big enough quanities to feed your dupes - Taking on new dupes whenever offered - Base overheating, usually killing you due to farms overheating. Comes from a lack of communication ingame. Needs more info about the importance of isolating heat producing buildings, insulating your base exterior from hot biomes. There's little warning about buildings that produce deadly amounts of heat (electrolyzer etc). Heat creep onset is very punishing for new players and could be reduced for default difficulty. No hints about ice biomes and the importance of wheezeworts. - Making far too many algae deoxiders/terrariums which makes you use a lot of power and drains your algae very fast. Game needs better communication of how much you really need, and more accurate oxygen warnings. I used to have 5-10 deoxidisers, now I can get away with one or two! - No prior knowlege about geysers and how important they are - Wasting lots of fuel on power production, or having power fall apart as wiring systems and transformers are very poorly explained Most other things feel fair - yes, you can die to loads of things but you don't feel cheated when you do so, unlike the things listed above. Slimelung, food poisoning, running out of algae, running out of fuel, dealing with mid-game heat, it's all stuff you learn as you die and try again with a new strategy. If they iron out the things I listed the game will feel much fairer for new players. Whilst still having hundreds of challenges to overcome. Better communication of things like insulation's importance doesn't teach you how to actually do it right, you gotta figure that out for yourself. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifegrow Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Jigsawn said: Spoiler I sympathise with the OP. However the issue is not so much the diffiulty as the lack of communication/tutorials for new players. I've made many posts with suggestions to improve this. I expect by the final release it will be a lot more friendly for new players. Currently new players can make lots of mistakes right at the start, but don't become apparent until much later in the game by which time you can already have spent 20 hours and feel frustrated as a result. The biggest issues right now for new players which could easily be avoided with a few more tips/better ingame guidance: - Picking bad dupes at the start of the game - The importance of setting up farming very early and in big enough quanities to feed your dupes - Taking on new dupes whenever offered - Base overheating, usually killing you due to farms overheating. Comes from a lack of communication ingame. Needs more info about the importance of isolating heat producing buildings, insulating your base exterior from hot biomes. There's little warning about buildings that produce deadly amounts of heat (electrolyzer etc). Heat creep onset is very punishing for new players and could be reduced for default difficulty. No hints about ice biomes and the importance of wheezeworts. - Making far too many algae deoxiders/terrariums which makes you use a lot of power and drains your algae very fast. Game needs better communication of how much you really need, and more accurate oxygen warnings. I used to have 5-10 deoxidisers, now I can get away with one or two! - No prior knowlege about geysers and how important they are - Wasting lots of fuel on power production, or having power fall apart as wiring systems and transformers are very poorly explained Most other things feel fair - yes, you can die to loads of things but you don't feel cheated when you do so, unlike the things listed above. Slimelung, food poisoning, running out of algae, running out of fuel, dealing with mid-game heat, it's all stuff you learn as you die and try again with a new strategy. If they iron out the things I listed the game will feel much fairer for new players. Whilst still having hundreds of challenges to overcome. Better communication of things like insulation's importance doesn't teach you how to actually do it right, you gotta figure that out for yourself. What are you talking about? All of these issues or "mistakes" should be encouraged... New players should be encouraged to play the game - fail - learn from their downfall - improve (and improve only IF they want to improve that is!). The only pop-up message needed here is "You're probably going to die - don't worry about it - they're only made of ooze - don't get too attached..." Why do games have to be dumbed down because people are so impatient to have a perfect "first gameplay experience". I'm not attacking the OP here either - this is more a take on the modern attitude to gaming. People are so spoilt into thinking they somehow deserve to understand and fully "get" a game because of what? their MLG status? How good they were at street fighter? How pro they normally are at "building games"... It's all just nonsense. The Long and short of this is simple - pick any game off the shelf and your first playthrough you will just suck balls, but you have the opportunity to learn. Second playthrough you're a little better. 5th playthrough you think you're getting better, etc etc. Who here can honestly say they've never killed a colony, or save scummed a daft mistake? Not me... As soon as you start pandering a game to the lowest common denominator you essentially alienate the majority of gamers. After all, this simulation game does also come with the "Survival" tag on the steam store, let's not forget that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, Lifegrow said: .. you will just suck balls.. My grandma said, someones mouth should be washed with soap, because some of those words from you, are not demure! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifegrow Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, Oozinator said: Spoiler My grandma said, someones mouth should be washed with soap, because some of those words from you, are not demure! My grandma used to say "If you've nothing worth saying, don't be an attention seeking sloth-posting turd" Oddly specific, but you'd be surprised how often it's served me well... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkpony Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I've never actually killed a colony myself though my first couple of play throughs were crap. First one I had huge stress problems and never got NG power going and the second one my colony was slowly dieing of heat death so I gave up. I personally have a lot of fun restarting though I get to about 400 cycles and I'm done. It did however take me a good 3 or so runs to learn this game after that point I started experimenting. I think the last patch was great forcing us to use other means of power and water production. This game isn't hard by any means it' just complicated. God forbid you have to use the critical thinking and problem Solving part of your brain to play a game. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasuha Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 17 hours ago, DubbleTwice said: Here is the problem ... it take HOURS to play up to the transition to the tier 2 oxygen tech and the seeds of my destruction are sown LOOONG before I get there. As I attempt this transition I'm already dead. Additionally, I NEVER can get any practice at making the transition from tier 1 to tier 2, because it takes hours and hours to get to that stage and an hour to transition. I can kind of relate. When I was playing Don't Starve Shipwrecked, I got obliterated by volcano eruption every time I managed to reach the Summer season. And trying again meant about 8 hours of playtime. I had hundreds of playing hours logged from all the unsuccessful attempts and no, I was not happy about the progress I reached. I would say, though, that ONI is way more forgiving. You can save your games, or you can return up to 10 cycles back using autosaves. You can identify your mistakes and you can fix them. Or just take notes and try to follow them the next playthrough. There are no disasters in the game, only creeping doom if you do things wrong. But you can notice these things if you pay attention, so when you run out of something, make a note to keep eye on it next time. Plus of course, there's whole community willing to offer whole number of solutions if you come with some particular problem. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 24 minutes ago, Lifegrow said: My grandma used to say "If you've nothing worth saying, don't be an attention seeking sloth-posting turd" Oddly specific, but you'd be surprised how often it's served me well... For me it's not a bad thing, to be demure, when so many kids around. No reason to be rude again Have a nice day. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89097-the-game-is-too-hard/#findComment-1019753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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