Air Conditioning Not Included

[Hero Of Holios]

I've clocked in at over 200 hours, now, and I've been playing since the agriculture update.

I state this because in all of my time playing this game, I have seen forum topics covering helpful and simple ways to solve almost every problem in Oxygen Not Included, except for one.

We still don't have an early game solution to heat, save for the not very helpful hydro coolers.

To make matters worse, for some reason (and I can't remember when it started happening) Cold biomes stopped spawning near the starting area. I would understand this if the heat biome was treated the same, but it spawns almost twice as much as the swamp anymore.

On occasion, I activate debug mode to see where the cold biomes might be, and they end up so far that my dupes will burn before they even get close.

I understand that the Wheezeworts are very important to keeping a base alive, which is why I feel sorry for new players who don't even know they exist for their first few worlds. Why did the devs decide this biome in particular needed to be moved so far away? This game has become "Air Conditioning Not Included", as Oxygen is easier to deal with than temperature.

[Amara313]

You could always pipe your water through some granite pipes.  That'll keep the heat down a bit - it's not perfect, but for early game it works.  also minimizing your heat inside your base.   The hot biome doesn't hurt your dupes.  They can get through it to just about anywhere until you get near the oil. 

[trukogre]

Two step early game solution to heat

1. Don't make heat

2. If you must make heat, make it somewhere else.

There you go

(This might seem overly simple.  It's stated simply because the problem is also simple.  Many  players will for example see that they're running out of algae, so they build an electrolyzer inside their base, because it seems easier.  They don't have a plan, for dealing with the extra heat that will create, they just neglect to consider it.  Then, when their base gets too hot and their mealwood dies, they wonder "why doesn't the game give me more tools to deal with this heat in the early game?"  But, they had all the tools they needed.  They had the option of just digging for a bit more algae, until they'd finishing finding the ice biome, or researching the aquatuner, etc.  They just didn't even think about it until it was too late.  So, two step early game solution: so they'll think about the problem before it's too late.  Or, perhaps it will save them from trying to cool a heat source in the wrong spot, because thinking about heat earlier will have them build in the right spot, where it will be much easier to cool. etc)

[badimo]

The game is all about dealing with these minor to major issues.  Similar to your point, you could call the game:

-Clean water not included (I always see this on Reddit)

-Protection from slimelung not included

-Cold water not included

-Maintenance free energy not included

-Dirt not included

-Etc.

The only outstanding (very minor) issue I see is dealing with large pockets of chlorine because I think compressors are pure cheat.  But it really doesn’t matter because eventually it will just buildup in a tiny mass in the bottom right of your map and it doesn’t hurt dupes.  Still a minor omission in my mind.

[Giltirn]

1 hour ago, trukogre said:

Two step early game solution to heat

1. Don't make heat

2. If you must make heat, make it somewhere else.

There you go

(This might seem overly simple.  It's stated simply because the problem is also simple.  Many  players will for example see that they're running out of algae, so they build an electrolyzer inside their base, because it seems easier.  They don't have a plan, for dealing with the extra heat that will create, they just neglect to consider it.  Then, when their base gets too hot and their mealwood dies, they wonder "why doesn't the game give me more tools to deal with this heat in the early game?"  But, they had all the tools they needed.  They had the option of just digging for a bit more algae, until they'd finishing finding the ice biome, or researching the aquatuner, etc.  They just didn't even think about it until it was too late.  So, two step early game solution: so they'll think about the problem before it's too late.  Or, perhaps it will save them from trying to cool a heat source in the wrong spot, because thinking about heat earlier will have them build in the right spot, where it will be much easier to cool. etc)

I agree with most of what you're saying, but the aquatuner just moves heat about, and the ice biome is often very distant and is finite in its cooling capacity (before all the ice melts). There are only a limited number of wheezeworts on a map, and those plus the AETN are the only sources of cooling we have apart from using weird, counter-intuitive heat-deletion 'quirks' like dumping heat into polluted water and converting the water to fertilizer. I consider the latter exploits because they are completely illogical and exist only because of the limitations of the simulation (of course you could say the worts and AETN are also, but at least they were *designed* for that purpose).

Edit: In practise, a (practically) infinite amount of cooling is available in a real asteroid by building radiators on the outside which radiate their heat into space. I would very much like to have this as a late-game option.

[QuQuasar]

I think heat is considered a late game problem by Klei, with a late game solution. Even if you're playing really stupidly you can expect to last a good 50 cycles before it becomes a problem. That's generally long enough to reach an ice biome through a caustic one, especially if you know they're more common in the upper half of the map.

 

With that said... I suspect Hero of Holios's problem is exactly what the hydrofans are meant for. They just need to be buffed slightly. Which'll probably happen around the time terrariums get fixed.

[BlueLance]

Also, you say airconditioner not included, you can make them manually anyway. ll an airconditioner does is essentially transfer heat from one place to another depending on the method usually though gas expansion (Which causes cooling) and then compression (Which causes heat) usually helped kept cool via a duct outside. 

[PhailRaptor]

1 hour ago, QuQuasar said:

... especially if you know they're more common in the upper half of the map.

Ice Biomes do tend to be larger on the upper half of the map, but they are not more common there.

1 hour ago, QuQuasar said:

With that said... I suspect Hero of Holios's problem is exactly what the hydrofans are meant for. They just need to be buffed slightly. Which'll probably happen around the time terrariums get fixed.

So...  never?

[QuQuasar]

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Ice Biomes do tend to be larger on the upper half of the map, but they are not more common there.

A large ice biome is multiple adjacent ice biome cells. The cells are more common in the upper half of the map, which is why larger biomes form up there.

 

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

So...  never?

Everybody's a cynic.

[Oozinator]

22 minutes ago, QuQuasar said:

Everybody's a cynic.

Me and my grandma not! We both like to play a bugfree ONI.

[Master Miner]

10 hours ago, Hero Of Holios said:

early game solution to heat

Insulating walls around the base.Normal abyssalite tiles are not too expensive and provide more than good insulation.
There is usually more than enough abyssalite just next to the base, without having to go through a slimelung contaminated area.
Plan the walls from the very beginning.
Put all warm / hot stuff above the base.
This is already enough for some 150 cycles, or at least until you have almost all tech.

Mid-game: boil polluted water with aquatuners, and perhaps thermo regulators, cool the steam with PW.
Then you will run into a different problem - you will need more heat

[itsYiyas]

Unless you build an electrolyzer, I dont think there's much struggle with heat as long as you are expanding steadily - but if you're expanding you will have more algae so you don't need an electrolyzer.

I think the issue is, and I done this too when I started out, is being happy with your little colony instead of exploring the great beyond for wheezeworts, algae, coal and geysers.

[Supraluminal]

8 minutes ago, itsYiyas said:

Unless you build an electrolyzer, I dont think there's much struggle with heat as long as you are expanding steadily - but if you're expanding you will have more algae so you don't need an electrolyzer.

I think the issue is, and I done this too when I started out, is being happy with your little colony instead of exploring the great beyond for wheezeworts, algae, coal and geysers.

You can cook your base with coal generators and batteries and fixed-temp output machines pretty easily. A big part of the problem with heat in ONI is that it's a slow poison - by the time it's killing you, it's probably too late to do much about it and it may be difficult for a new player (or one who doesn't resort to the internet) to figure out exactly what they did wrong when, and how to do better next time.

The early abyssalite base-box makes a huge difference, and that's not a particularly intuitive solution. Abyssalite's remarkable properties aren't exactly shoved in your face. What new player would guess that there's a plentiful supply of a perfect insulator in easy reach just waiting to be dug up and built into a wall?

[Neotuck]

7 minutes ago, Supraluminal said:

it may be difficult for a new player (or one who doesn't resort to the internet) to figure out

I notice not many youtubers have made a guild or tutorial.  I think it's because the game keeps changing drastically with every update and a lot of work goes into editing videos and no one wants to make a tutorial video if the info/advise given becomes useless in a few weeks

[itsYiyas]

Just now, Supraluminal said:

You can cook your base with coal generators and batteries and fixed-temp output machines pretty easily. A big part of the problem with heat in ONI is that it's a slow poison - by the time it's killing you, it's probably too late to do much about it and it may be difficult for a new player (or one who doesn't resort to the internet) to figure out exactly what they did wrong when, and how to do better next time.

The early abyssalite base-box makes a huge difference, and that's not a particularly intuitive solution. Abyssalite's remarkable properties aren't exactly shoved in your face. What new player would guess that there's a plentiful supply of a perfect insulator in easy reach just waiting to be dug up and built into a wall?

I'd like to guess that the "early game base" only generates about 50-70w of heat on average - at least if you are using smart batteries. Algae deoxidisers also put out 30c oxygen which can be a cooling factor if your base is running over that.

I think if ONI had some sort of tutorial / campaign it'd go a long way. The best comparison I can make is Factorio that where you rebuild "broken" bases and that shows you the basics of base building and locks the research down to a low tier.

Simple stuff like putting your generators behind insulated tiles, using smart batteries, and expanding to get more algae can really extend your lifetime in terms of heat.

[Lutzkhie]

i was able to maintain the temp of my base at 23c (some parts are lower) for 300cycles by keeping all minerals except sandstone outside my base, and cooling the oxygen by using 2 thermo regulators. the base wall is 2 tile thick, the outer wall is insulated and the inner wall is non insulated usually sandstone, coal gens are inside insulated base with wheezes they never goes 20c

[BlueLance]

7 minutes ago, Lutzkhie said:

i was able to maintain the temp of my base at 23c (some parts are lower) for 300cycles by keeping all minerals except sandstone outside my base, and cooling the oxygen by using 2 thermo regulators. the base wall is 2 tile thick, the outer wall is insulated and the inner wall is non insulated usually sandstone, coal gens are inside insulated base with wheezes they never goes 20c

Sack that XD what is cooling? haha just kidding, I never actually cool my base but I do need to start looking at it because at 300 cycles my electrolyzers are usually at about 47-49 degrees celcius, I think at about 500 cycles I will need to invest in cooling though

[Neotuck]

you could always craft a lot of cool vests, it's easy to set up a short term reed farm

[BlueLance]

For me that wouldnt work  haha

[Lutzkhie]

5 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

Sack that XD what is cooling? haha just kidding, I never actually cool my base but I do need to start looking at it because at 300 cycles my electrolyzers are usually at about 47-49 degrees celcius, I think at about 500 cycles I will need to invest in cooling though

my mushroom oxydizer cools the electrolyzer even though i dont have to coz they really dont reach 75c, but i started a new game with the release of preview build, i took some pictures of it before i say goodbye, ill miss my Moonbase 2.0

[Exa]

As soon as I have a rank 2 miner, I send him through abyssalite tunnel for safely find the first ice biome available and go straigh to the first wheezewort. once you have 3/4 of them, you are ok about temperature problems and can focus on water geyser

I quickly insulate my base with the abyssalite waste of the To-The-Ice-Tunnel

[BlueLance]

I do a similar thing, just not for wheezeworts but for abyssalite, I have 6 seperate tanks which I need to make out of it and they aint tiny

[Soulwind]

For early/mid game base (and berry farm) cooling, I run a set of granite pipes across each floor with little u bends behind each painting. That ends up making a base wide radiator system.  Then I run water in through an aquatuner, through the berry farm and then through the rest of the base, finally dumping back into a tank to be run through the cycle again. In 10 or 15 cycles my entire base is sitting at 18 to 20 degrees with the berry farm at 12 to 15.  Can maintain that almost indefinitely as I cycle the warm polluted water around the aquatuner through a sieve and carbon skimmer. 

[Exa]

Massive Ice melting into your main water tank help a lot too, you can melt ice with a lot of low cap storage compactors built in your water tank (600~1000 kg max) or by building a lot of Ice Sculpture in you water tank who will melt instantly (but need Dupe labor)

[greggbert]

1) You must dig to a cold biome earlier in the game, definitely before you exceed 6 dupes.
2) Put ALL heat producing buildings, Batteries, Transformers,  Etc...  above your base with insulated tile below if possible. Only exception is deoxidizers.
3) Produce your oxygen and purify your polluted water in the cold biome and pump it back.
4) Put wheezeworts in all the hot part of your base.
5) There are "warmer" spots in the starting biome.   Avoid them at all costs.  Do not extend your base into these areas, instead keep your base in the cooler part of the starting biome.

 

That should get you through until your research is done.