Cooling Steam Geyser with 3 weezes

[Lifegrow]

2 minutes ago, Keyimin said:

Well, that's disappointing, although it's good to know I didn't muck up something stupid lol. 

Ladders, you say?

<puts thinking cap back on>

See edit above - have fun  

[Keyimin]

Just now, Lifegrow said:

See edit above - have fun  

Good stuff, cheers!

<wanders off to her Wile E. Coyote planning table>

[Lifegrow]

Just now, Keyimin said:

Good stuff, cheers!

<wanders off to her Wile E. Coyote planning table>

Make sure to pack your ACME. Rubberised Handling Gloves - I made quite a few balls of solid CO2....

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

only works if the liquid falls from a tile that adjoins surface water in the tile space below.

Actually, it will happen if you find some way to cool the surface water.

Spoiler

 

A simple experiment. Liquid doesn't fall from a tile but heat deletion (drip cooling) also happens.

SAVEFILE

Everything is hot (96.9C) except the plastic ladder (20C).

I drip hot water to the big water tank. When the water level goes up, the surface water touch the cold ladder, and the ladder cool the surface water. Then drip cooling is triggered.

 

The drip cooling will be stronger if the surface water has lower mass and is colder.

In your case, the tile created a grid water with low mass, and the water itself is cold enough.

In my case, the rising water level created a grid water with low mass, and ladder cools the water.

In OP's case, the bubble created a grid water with low mass, and gas CO2 from above cools the water.

 

Have a nice sleep, good night. I am always happy to discuss with you if you don't mind my poor English.

[Lifegrow]

37 minutes ago, R9MX4 said:

Actually, it will happen if you find some way to cool the surface water.

  Hide contents

 

A simple experiment. Liquid doesn't fall from a tile but heat deletion (drip cooling) also happens.

SAVEFILE

 

Everything is hot (96.9C) except the plastic ladder (20C).

I drip hot water to the big water tank. When the water level goes up, the surface water touch the cold ladder, and the ladder cool the surface water. Then drip cooling is triggered.

 

The drip cooling will be stronger if the surface water has lower mass and is colder.

In your case, the tile created a grid water with low mass, and the water itself is cold enough.

In my case, the rising water level created a grid water with low mass, and ladder cools the water.

In OP's case, the bubble created a grid water with low mass, and gas CO2 from above cools the water.

 

Have a nice sleep, good night. I am always happy to discuss with you if you don't mind my poor English.

Sadly not - all you have here is the temperature of the ladders being equalised out when the water first comes into contact with it. You can see this very clearly if you change the temperature of the water in your bottom tank after the initial equalising has occurred. Any further heating/cooling afterwards is only due to the additional liquid being added to the tank. The top water tank will stay around 47 degrees and not experience any of the "exploit speedy cooling".

This is a bug - but it's not "the" surface water bug that so many cooler builds use - this is a separate behaviour entirely. We know this as it's regardless of what material you make the ladders out of (even abysallite for example) the same "equalising" cooling will occur.

Hope that makes sense - try it yourself.

[TheScaryOne]

So are the ladder's in OP functioning as super temp shift plates? I don't understand why this is working.

[Arash70]

This is really interesting

Liquid Co2 cooling! That right there saves 1.2kw of power.

[NanoD]

This is one of the places were cooling happens for OP, when the CO2 bubble comes to top it can create a thin layer of water that can be cool down. the other is when change in water lvl occurs. And if the ladders is not abyssalite then the ladders will help when the water lvl changes. And Every thing is same cooling bug and not any new one.

 

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

all you have here is the temperature of the ladders being equalised out when the water first comes into contact with it.

The "equalising" is exactly the heat deletion(drip cooling).

Let me quote two of my old posts

Quote

Heat deletion only happens when the following four requirements are met.

1. vertical interactions between two cells (high 2*width 1) 

2. elements(gas or liquid) are the same

3. top cell is colder.

4. top cell doesn't have more mass than bottom.

Quote

M1 kg at T1 degree (above)

M2 kg at T2 degrees (bottom) (same kind of liquid/gas)

If T1<T2 & M1<M2, temperatures of two cells exchange at once.

The final temperature T3=(T1× M2+T2× M1)／(T1 +T2)

Heat loss= (T2 - T1)×(M2 - M1)*c

All the three cases are just three types of heat deletion. All of them meets the four requirements. And because M1(the mass of surface water) is low in these case, the heat deletion is strong.

 

54 minutes ago, TheScaryOne said:

So are the ladder's in OP functioning as super temp shift plates? I don't understand why this is working.

Ladders are not vital. Gas from above is cool, bubbles create small mass of surface water, that's enough.

[NanoD]

2 minutes ago, R9MX4 said:

11 minutes ago, NanoD said:

So are the ladder's in OP functioning as super temp shift plates? I don't understand why this is working.

Ladders are not vital. Gas from above is cool, bubbles create small mass of surface water, that's enough.

Hmm some strange quote there...

[Lutzkhie]

carbon skimmer also produces at constant 40c right? similar to water seive?

[Lifegrow]

40 minutes ago, NanoD said:

This is one of the places were cooling happens for OP, when the CO2 bubble comes to top it can create a thin layer of water that can be cool down. the other is when change in water lvl occurs. And if the ladders is not abyssalite then the ladders will help when the water lvl changes. And Every thing is same cooling bug and not any new one.

 

@NanoDCheck the temperature of the tile at the bottom of the pool at the same time that bubble is released. it will have cooled the tank tile (regardless of material) by a vast amount - that is where the cooling originates from.

Drop in 1000kg of liquid CO2 in one tile space, and slowly pause/check/pause/check. Check both the water temp, and the bottom of the tank tile temp and the surface water temp. Let me know what you find.

I tested this myself in debug - spawning in various amounts of liquid CO2 - and no water temperature change unless radiating from the bottom of the tank.

@R9MX4Did you go and test your own example again? I downloaded your save and commented above. I'm curious how you explain the fact that once the initial balancing of the ladders vs water occurs, it can't then be further cooled with "the drip exploit" by simply adding more cold water to your bottom tank....That in itself sort of counteracts your thinking surely...

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

4 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

once the initial balancing of the ladders vs water occurs, it can't then be further cooled with "the drip exploit" by simply adding more cold water to your bottom tank

I hope we can focus on the "balancing", instead of what happens after the "balancing".

Because, as I mentioned before, in my case, "the initial balancing of the ladders vs water occurs" is "the drip exploit". After the "balancing", the exploit is over because there is no more cold source to cool the surface water again.

 

I just want to show you that the drip cooling does not "only works if the liquid falls from a tile that adjoins surface water in the tile space below."

[Lifegrow]

Just now, R9MX4 said:

I hope we can focus on the "balancing", instead of what happens after the "balancing".

Because, as I mentioned before, in my case, "the initial balancing of the ladders vs water occurs" is "the drip exploit". After the "balancing", the exploit is over because there is no more cold source to cool the surface water again.

 

I just want to show you that the drip cooling does not "only works if the liquid falls from a tile that adjoins surface water in the tile space below."

And I've acknowledged that.

My question is simple - once the initial balancing happens, as you call it - if you swap out the bottom tank in your test build for ice cold nearly freezing water, and pump that in - why doesn't that cause the same cooling effect?

Because it needs to interact with a solid object. I.e a tile. That's been my point all along here.

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

And I've acknowledged that.

My question is simple - once the initial balancing happens, as you call it - if you swap out the bottom tank in your test build for ice cold nearly freezing water, and pump that in - why doesn't that cause the same cooling effect?

Because it needs to interact with a solid object. I.e a tile. That's been my point all along here.

A solid object is important.

Though the tile doesn't have to adjoin surface water, for example you can created a waterfall, a solid object/tile is at least very very important to trigger heat deletion.

The tile help a small mass of water to drip as a tile instead of a droplet. Water occupying a tile is required for drip cooling.

Spoiler

occupy a tile  not occupy a tile and drip as a droplet

But in op's case, a bubble plays a similar role as a solid object, it help the small mass of water occupies a tile.

 

 

I did two new experiments again, similar with OP's structure. It seems the states of dripping CO2(liquid or solid) also make a great difference.

If the dripping liquid CO2 is occupying a tile, it can also play a similar role as a solid object.

 

[Master Miner]

3 hours ago, R9MX4 said:

The final temperature T3=(T1× M2+T2× M1)／(T1 +T2)

Has someone verified that this is in the code?

I wonder what might trigger someone to make such mistake?
Or does it make sense in some strange way?

Why wouldn't the devs correct such mistake ASAP?

 

3 hours ago, R9MX4 said:

If T1<T2 & M1<M2, temperatures of two cells exchange at once.

Is this also in the code?
Why wouldn't heat exchange for liquids also happen when T1 > T2?
Perhaps to avoid calculating the same heat exchange twice - once for each cell, so always just warmer -> colder, but then why to combine it with M1 < M2?

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

1 hour ago, Master Miner said:

Has someone verified that this is in the code?

I concluded it through experiment. if I have a chance to verify this is in the code, I will try to correct the code.

I guess @Yothielmight know something about the code. Here are two threads which might clarify the heat deletion clearly.

 

1 hour ago, Master Miner said:

Why wouldn't heat exchange for liquids also happen when T1 > T2?

I guess the heat deletion is the result of simulation of convection, top should be hot, bottom should be cold.

1 hour ago, Master Miner said:

but then why to combine it with M1 < M2?

Actually, the heat deletion happens when M1≤M2. When M1=M2, temperatures of two cells exchange at once, but the heat loss= (T2 - T1)×(M2 - M1)*c=0.

When M1>M2, because of gravity, the element in the upper cell begins to flow until M1≤M2. And the 4th requirement will be met quickly.

 

Both T1<T2 and M1<M2 make sense(convection and gravity), the only thing that make no sense is two tiles of liquid/gas should not exchange their temperatures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Lutzkhie said:

carbon skimmer also produces at constant 40c right? similar to water seive?

Yes

[Pinky_1995]

how is it wired or piped?

[SkunkMaster]

2 hours ago, Pinky_1995 said:

how is it wired or piped?

It's kind of passive. All i really did was make sure there was only CO2 in the room, since other gases, including oxygen, would mess with the liquification process of the carbon dioxide.

The steam also does mess with it a little, and i'm considering trying to shield of the steam so it get's cooled passively by the metal tiles, instead of heating the CO2, the same CO2 i'm trying to cool down to liquid state. 

[Technoincubus]

Tried it and overpressured hydrogen chamber never managed to cool down enough.

[SkunkMaster]

6 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

Tried it and overpressured hydrogen chamber never managed to cool down enough.

You have to make certain no other gasses are touching the cooling plates. everything but CO2 seems to have a too high thermal conductivity.

 

CO2 in my system was only around 0 degrees at water surface.

[Argelle]

 

SkunkMaster, I would give your design a try, but I've never even liquefied a gaz. Could you post a view of gas and liquid piping please?

(I'd like to see how liquid CO2 goes from top room to the middle left, can't say I see a pump )

[SkunkMaster]

17 minutes ago, Argelle said:

 

SkunkMaster, I would give your design a try, but I've never even liquefied a gaz. Could you post a view of gas and liquid piping please?

(I'd like to see how liquid CO2 goes from top room to the middle left, can't say I see a pump )

Check out the Chlorine build i made, i've tried to explain the process in better detail, since the setup in this thread was more of a accident and i had no clue how to control it.

 

If you use the Chlorine build, the receiving fluid wont freeze and you will therefor not need any automation to make it run right.

 

[Argelle]

Thanks SkunkMaster, I do not want to sound ungreatful, but

looking at cooling steam geyser, I'm like "hum.. let's try"

cooling with chlorine design is more to me.... "runnnnnn !!!!"

(beside in my 200 cycles base, has no petroleum, no chlorine yet, no natural gas, only a unique steam geyser and plenty of weezplant and CO2).

As said before, I just want to give a try in my base, so pipes plan can be of use to me

[SkunkMaster]

Just now, Argelle said:

Thanks SkunkMaster, I do not want to sound ungreatful, but

looking at cooling steam geyser, I'm like "hum.. let's try"

cooling with chlorine design is more to me.... "runnnnnn !!!!"

(beside in my 200 cycles base, has no petroleum, no chlorine yet, no natural gas, only a unique steam geyser and plenty of weezplant and CO2).

As said before, I just want to give a try in my base, so pipes plan can be of use to me

That's the thing, there are no pipes in this system. Also using CO2 to cool water is really bad, since the water will freeze at carbons liquid temperature.

The reason why i try to keep you from doin this exact system is because i had nothing but problems with it. The Carbon would freeze blocking flow to the rooms who liquefy the carbon, then the water would freeze blocking the water pump, and what not.

I know the Chlorine system might seem frighting, but it can be scaled down, and you can use weezes instead of petroleum.

Fill the weeze chamber with hydrogen and if you have no Chlorine geyser, then you will need to use petrol in the lower part, and use carbon to cool. Petroleum wont freeze when in contact with Liquid Carbon, oil might.

 

Take the Chlorine setup i have, and just make it as small as you can.

You most likely wont even need a Chlorine geyser if you make it small enough, just take the chlorine from the nearest 3-4 pockets and you should be good to go.