Ressayez Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Willow really needs a buff, everyone who plays Don't Starve multiplyer knows this, heck even the large part of the player base that does not play or appreciate Don't Starve singleplayer knows that DSM willow is ridiculously trash and even WESLEY is better than willow after her humungos nerf to prevent "accidents" and "greifing" and to make the game nicer for "newer players" Let's go over her "perks". shall we? Lighter -NO LONGER lasts forever COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT OF ORIGINALLY -Functions exactly as a torch but lasts 5 days instead of one -Expensive to craft and uses noob resources like Gold and Petals -USELESS!!! bernie -Supposed to protect you from shadow people, but DOESNT protect you from shadow people in the caves and makes kiting surface shadow people IMPOSSIBLE pictured: bernie sitting watching my friend get killed by a group of shadow men pictured: bernie standing watching me get killed by shadow man... AGAIN!!! -I still believe he can win Gets fire From sanity -when she is by a fire she gets sanity -you should never stand around doing nothign especially not for sanity, this is why sleeping and willow's sanity of fire is literally trash here is a much better alternative i find on the steam forums: Freezes From no sanity -When she reaches no sanity she starts to freeze in any season! This is a big bad because it punishes the player for being insane and no other character has any drawbacks from having insanity -Thermal stones are a huge use of rocks and it is a HUMONGOSE WASTE to be making thermal stones for willow year round so she can not die of freezing in summer Grief Fire Immunity -Instead of having total fire immunity she now has only some brief fire immunity ... WHY?!?!?! dISCUSS. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day One Webber Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 yes it does Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auth Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I feel this is a bit more dramatic than needed but O.K. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
6480 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Mate, you feeling alright? You seem pretty angry over this. Get a Willow balancing mod or something if it means that much to you instead of recreating one of the 500 Willow buff threads but with worse grammar. >"you should never stand around doing nothign especially not for sanity" >"here is a much better alternative i find on the steam forums:" shows pic of someone standing around doing nothing for sanity Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicko Hog Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 hours ago, 6480 said: >"here is a much better alternative i find on the steam forums:" shows pic of someone standing around doing nothing for sanity I'd say there's a pretty big difference between sitting by a fire as Willow for that sweet sweet 10 sanity per minute, and standing in a sanity station for 10 seconds to refill your sanity entirely. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterStuffed Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ressayez said: -When she reaches no sanity she starts to freeze in any season! This is a big bad because it punishes the player for being insane and no other character has any drawbacks from having insanity I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again.. Willow’s sanity chills by itself cannot make her freeze. It stops lowering right above the freezing threshold so it’s only ever a problem while it’s raining. I'm all for buffing Willow but for the love of all that is holy don't tell people things that aren't true. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ressayez Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 29 minutes ago, 6480 said: shows pic of someone that's me and those pics were taken by me except for the gif my friend made who also hates willow so please don't steal from us i will sue because this is copyrighted material Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
6480 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, JellyUltra said: I'd say there's a pretty big difference between sitting by a fire as Willow for that sweet sweet 10 sanity per minute, and standing in a sanity station for 10 seconds to refill your sanity entirely. Good point, though I was thinking more of the fact that OP dissed tents, which are pretty much the same sanity regain rate as that evil flower field and much easier to make in early game. I've never played as Willow so I didn't know her regen rate was so low. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Total YES to: Bernie should bait Shadows from Ruins too (including Shadow variant of monkeys), plus Shadows summoned by Ancient Fuelweaver; that probably would make Willow somewhat OP, but more akin to Wicker's books. Infinite lighter? I for one don't care as I never use it completely in the first place - actually after day 2-4 (depending on proximity to a Rock/Mozaic biome), past getting a Lantern, I just discard her lighter and that's it. Fire immunity? Beside taking enraged Dragonfly without worrying about burning (maybe also cook on lava ponds if that's your conjuncture thing) and occasionally warming up quickly by standing on fire not a big must have - well it's another matter if you account PVP into this, one matter I don't care about so moving on. Sanity from fire? Like lighter past day 5, kinda redundant; like anything you get, not give, is okish. And freezing from insanity - wasn't that fixed a while ago? I don't seem to have problems with it now; yet I tend to control my surrounding conditions when going insane for nf farming. Maybe is indeed still a persistent general problem? In the end, yep, Willow should be buffed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day One Webber Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 sadly accurate image of what klei done to willow Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanWaffles Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I always though people were just joking or being dramatic when they complain about Willow being under-powered and being worse then Wes, but I think they're actually being serious. I agree that Willow isn't a very good character, but she's not terrible. Balance-wise, she's on par with Wilson. The reason I don't like Willow is because none of her perks are extreme enough to make a meaningful difference in her game-play. Willow's Lighter is nice to have, but it's not very great. It's a pretty niche item that get's outclassed pretty quickly by Lanterns. It's really just like a better torch. Allowing her to cook on it is nice, but it's not enough to make it a good item. Bernie is pretty neat, but, it doesn't do its job of distracting shadows as well as it could. It can helpful when around with other players who may also be insane (e.g. have them lying around base to attract maybe 4 people's shadow creatures) but just enough quite good enough. A lot of people seem to have misconceptions about her insanity chills, and I feel like it just spread from a few ignorant players who never played Willow before. Most of the complaints I've seen about Willow claim that she's bad because she freezes when she's insane which makes it difficult to farm nightmare fuel with, and then they go on a tangent about why Wes is better for this reason (also since he can go insane with balloons). Willow does NOT freeze from her insanity chills. at most, her body temperature will go down 20 degrees at 0 sanity, but it will cap at 1 degree, preventing her from freezing (i.e. world temperature is 15 degrees, Willow will be at 1 degree, not -5.) She'll only freeze if her wetness combined with her insanity chills bring her below 0 degrees, which only really matter when it rains in late autumn, or in early spring (that's when the world temperature usually dips below 25 degrees). Also, I've seen a lot of people mention using her insanity chills as a way to stay cool in the summer. This only works in the first few days of summer, and assumes you are at a constant 0 sanity. This is because her insanity chills only drop her temperature by 20 degrees, and the overheating temperature is 70 degrees. However, summer can climb to well over 100 degrees, making her insanity chills a pretty niche combatant to overheating. Willow has lower maximum sanity (120 vs 200 for the average character) but her sanity from fire, albeit small, compensates for this. And of course who could forget her iconic fire immunity resistance. I don't know why Klei removed this. It made the most thematic sense (Willow being a pyromaniac and all) and was pretty niche in itself. In single-player, you could light items in your inventory and burn your enemies to death, which would be a Willow exclusive tactic, but this was removed in DST. The only use I've seen for Willow's fire resistance is fighting enraged Dragonfly without scalemail; but that's not a very practical scenario anyway. Overall, Willow is a pretty lackluster character. None of her attributes shine or make gameplay more interesting, they just kind of exist. Most Willow mains play her because they like her personality, and humor. I think Klei should put a larger emphasis on Willow's pyromaniac identity. The best part of her kit is probably Bernie, but what does a sentient teddy bear have to do with being a pyromaniac anyway? (Wow I just realized I gave like no suggestions for Willow changes at all o_o. Giving her fire immunity back would be a nice start.) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWatson Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 i think that willow should be able to turn into fire during full moons Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicko Hog Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 i want willow to die Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donke60 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I think Williow should be replaced by a tree they both have the same impact on gameplay, (I’m still dead) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Echoes Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 What about enhancing her items. Willows lighter can currently cook foods at the cost of 1 percent fuel. What if she had a second option to "flame-broil" certain foods giving them different food values. For example, if she cooked a meat it would become "flamebroiled meat" and have the food values as jerky. This option would take 3 percent fuel to use. What about giving Bernie an basic attack of like 15-20 damage, but he can only attack when in close proximity to a Willow? Just tryna find some ways to increase her value... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 u avin a giggle m8? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newax Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 At this point i stopped taking you seriously, specificaly for the sleeping part, which is probably the most useful mechanics out there that saved my life countless times Although everything else, i 100% agree on, Willow is at the point where she isn't really useful for anything at all, you have characters for fighting, gathering resources, quicker start in the world, then you have Wes who's hardmode and Willow who burns things for absolutely no reason Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainChaotica Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 My opinion on this? Weeeelll...put it this way: The VERY FIRST mod I installed and the one that got me using mods _at all_ in the first place...was one that restores Willow to singleplayer form. She'd been one of my mains in original Don't Starve, and to have to just pass her by in the character list every time I started a new Together list really made me sad. And this wasn't just a random "EWW THEY CHANGED IT ICK" thing...this was after actual experience with the new Willow. To wit, the time when I died from freezing because I couldn't stop long enough to make a fire because my insanity monsters were ALSO on my butt, is what made me go and get the mod. Mind you, by the way, the particular one I'm using has her restored ALLLLL the way back to singleplayer version. That means, yep, you guessed it!--insanity-fires. I'd gotten more or less used to it and know to go away from camp with a bedroll and some meatballs until I calm down a bit; but that's just it--it only works well for those _experienced_ with the original Willow. (Other side-effects of this mod include the fact that since it was made off the singleplayer version, there are some animations and expressions she can't do! Mainly...she can't yawn. If you play with Willow the Unnerfed and do anything involving mandrakes or a sleepy Bearger nearby, she WILL lose her face and temporarily become Slenderwoman. XD) Spoiler Exhibit A--I have no mouth, and I must yawn... I know fully well that Willow was changed because griefing, that simply making her her old self with no modifications is NOT really the actual correct way to do this for Together and I'm using that mod as a stopgap "good enough" measure, and last but not least that _not all players can use mods_, but...well, that's how much I agree with the original poster. I'd rather accidentally set my base on fire to have an infinite lighter and ACTUAL fire immunity back again. (shrug) As for what should be done to her for realsies in actual-code Together...I'm not sure. Obviously she's got to have a major drawback and insanity-fires are very un-COMMUNITY-friendly...but the insanity freezing is HATEFUL. You can easily get into an infinite unbreakable loop-o-death. Picture this: It's winter, and you're freezing to death, even while wearing a winter hat and nice warmed-up thermal stone, because you're ALSO very insane. If you stop to make a fire you will stop freezing, but there's a Crawling Horror trying to eat your face off. So you keep running. This lowers your HP from the freezing even more and makes it even EASIER for them to get one-shotted when you finally stop! Not fun. The lighter could possibly be made to only be infinite _when used by her_, and there are in fact already mods like that (showing that the code is possible, but again, not available to console players). As for getting sanity from fire...I think this doesn't need to be changed, as it fits her character. Unfortunately I sometimes DO end up standing around doing nothing at night, so if I can get a _little_ side-benefit from it? Why not. : P But yeah...I understand WHY they changed her, but the HOW still needs work. ...Notorious Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day One Webber Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 my suggestion for buffed willow and bernie: Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Ouroboros Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Oh, I think Willow will always be considered undesirable and worthless by the meta, no matter how many meaningless perks you add to her. Her lighter is fine, chances are the one you started out with won't run out of fuel in most public servers. Bernie obviously isn't supposed to distract monkeys, no matter how shadowy they appear to be. Freezing is only an occasional menace, and if it wasn't for her low sanity, she would practically have zero downsides. I think prioritizing the creation of a winter cap once I enter a server may make my view here a little bit biased, but still... I think she should keep her fire immunity, though, in spite of whatever happens in PvP. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpa1227 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Commissar Oscar said: Oh, I think Willow will always be considered undesirable and worthless by the meta, Oh yes the meta because don’t starve is a balanced well thought out experience. The meta always fluctuates so maybe Williow will make a comeback just like will-kun Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
. . . Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 willow will be very useful in dont starve hamlet because you can burn down all the pighouses with your lighter and conquer the entire world with power of fire, watching the world burn is the best perk of all characters Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyNamedChris Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 19 hours ago, Ressayez said: Lighter Completely skipped over the fact it's a mobile campfire. A lot of people tend to do that and not give it enough credit for what it's worth. It's less of a torch more a free cooker for exploring without wasting resources. I find it especially useful in the Caves with the mushtrees to cook. 19 hours ago, Ressayez said: [Splumonkeys killing Willow] pictured: bernie sitting watching my friend get killed by a group of shadow men [Fuelweaver killing Willow] pictured: bernie standing watching me get killed by shadow man... AGAIN!!! Shadow splumonkeys are not nightmare creatures. The fuelweaver is a giant, having an item that draws away his attacks would be, in my eyes, OP. Nightmares are Crawlers, and Terrorbeaks to me, nothing more, nothing less. 19 hours ago, Ressayez said: Gets fire From sanity -when she is by a fire she gets sanity -you should never stand around doing nothign especially not for sanity, this is why sleeping and willow's sanity of fire is literally trash Now you're just dissing her Singleplayer perks. 19 hours ago, Ressayez said: Freezes From no sanity -When she reaches no sanity she starts to freeze in any season! This is a big bad because it punishes the player for being insane and no other character has any drawbacks from having insanity Nuh, it doesn't push Willow into freezing, only in Winter and rain, but by that point you should already have warmth items for that, and by Summer it becomes a perk. 19 hours ago, Ressayez said: Grief Fire Immunity -Instead of having total fire immunity she now has only some brief fire immunity ... WHY?!?!?! [Show 10,009 Results...] Literally every Willow balance thread has mentioned this already, it would be nice to have fire immunity back rather than 5 second fire resistance. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-996994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ressayez Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Chris1488 said: Blah blah blah. it is clear to me that you do not know anything about don't starve multiplayer game and that you are a noob this is a discussion created for experienced players only... goodbye... I don't know where people are getting this "lighter is portable campfire" thing from, every time I'm try to cook something on it, not even a option shows up! here is screenshtos for proof it's not just for meats, doesn't work for vegetals either, so... either my game is bugged or this isn't a feature Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-997044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingDedede Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 22 minutes ago, Ressayez said: I don't know where people are getting this "lighter is portable campfire" thing from, every time I'm try to cook something on it, not even a option shows up! Don't worry, I shall step on this land mine so that the rest may be spared. I can only hope it was not a fruitless sacrifice. With the lighter equipped, @Ressayez, meaning it is in your hand equip slot and is in use, drag the food over to the lighter and you will cook it. Also, the complete disrespect of Chris' post was entirely unneeded. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86863-we-need-to-talk-about-willow/#findComment-997050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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