Do you prefer the new job system or the old?

[BlueLance]

37 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Actually they use any refined metal. Since you cannot set the type it's usually ends up being copper. I'm guessing because it's generally closer but not sure.

Would be good to know because I use Copper for exo suits, Iron for buildings and airflow tiles, Gold for electrics and Wolframite for systems which are temperature dependant.

[Anduril]

I must say that I don't like this new update - for me game lost all fun. Dupes are slow, spend most of time in the base. Exploration is blocked by trained diggers. In previous (actually still current) update I could run base with ~8 dupes now it will be almost impossible. At time when I will be able to use new features I will lost interest in the game.

KLEI - please consider heavy changes here. I spend 591h with this game but now it is disaster for me. The game lost all of its own dynamic. If I want to play 1000+ turn then I would rather play Galactic Civ 3 or Civ 4(still the best in my opinion).

[Wedeueis]

The criticism is valid, but we have to keep in mind that this version of the system is not a stable version, there's a lot of bugs that will be addressed and some balance issues that will be changed. Seems like everyone is assuming that this is the final version. In my view the new system brings good management tools, the old one was bland with all the Dupes as runners. 

[The Plum Gate]

2 hours ago, NanoD said:

What I hate with the new system is that you can only have 3 on the same job. Feels like having straitjacket. If you have to do a limit then you have done it wrong. It should be natural that you dont want every one on same job. Not any artificial restrictions.

This very low cap seems like an artifact alluding to the notion that dupes are supposed to get those skill bonuses permanently ( either incrementally across the job training time, or after they finish it. Right now it doesn't make much sense instantly buffing stats - feels more like an end result type test of the system). Either they uncap the limit here and keep it as is or tune the leveling mechanic ( I hope they look at both ). It only makes sense to limit it to 3 if you're planning to add those bonuses or role-ability to the duplicants permanently.

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

Actually they use any refined metal. Since you cannot set the type it's usually ends up being copper. I'm guessing because it's generally closer but not sure.

I was wondering about this job, and why no one was complaining about the losses, has anyone gotten around to seeing this job in action yet?

[chemie]

1 hour ago, BlueLance said:

Would be good to know because I use Copper for exo suits, Iron for buildings and airflow tiles, Gold for electrics and Wolframite for systems which are temperature dependant.

Pretty important since copper is limited.  Your engineer has used all your copper so no exosuits for You!

[Anduril]

How do you deal with following issue - have rolled nice +9 art stat when started game for one dupe which is interested in cook - ok.

Now I have to constantly switch between Junior Interior Designer (to be able to do any art) and Junior Chef to increase cooking level. For me such design is broken. I would like to be able to do art (and any work) if skill allow that (enough skill points) and if dupe is assigned to his own interest then his skill increase is +50% boosted if he do it.

[Ichikai]

Ignore interests, make him art dude
Another duplicant with base cooking stats (say +5), (and preferably some athletics), will end up being better than a dupe with 0 cooking but interest in cooking. Just gets there somewhat slower, but 5 higher cooking.

[Anduril]

The problem is that I have to assign someone for art and cook - as will be not able to cook berries otherwise - current game limitation.

[Ichikai]

You could have him with the cook profession, and bring up the old menu at the bottom and disable art for everyone but him, and give art strict priority 3-4. Meaning he will go do art when you strictly prioritize it, and then go back to cooking after.

[NanoD]

Except he cant do any art if he is not Junior Interior Designer. 

[Ichikai]

That is true, you could do the reverse with cooking being the strict priority... or live with the hat dance. Not saying it's ideal

[goboking]

1 minute ago, Ichikai said:

You could have him with the cook profession, and bring up the old menu at the bottom and disable art for everyone but him, and give art strict priority 3-4. Meaning he will go do art when you strictly prioritize it, and then go back to cooking after.

He won't use the electric grill unless he's a cook.  He won't sculpt or paint unless he's an interior decorator.  It's not possible for him to do both without a tediously switching back of forth.  That level of micromanagement contradicts the stated purpose of the system overhaul.

[Rusjcd]

I do not like new update, cause I don't like new job system cause:

1. Athletics

2. Hats, which hide hairs.

3. Stupid job system, till it blocks anoter jobs, instead of giving bonuses. 

 

But I like new content. I would like to have an old game with new buildings and rooms.

[Scorpio King]

Its a nice feature, i just wish stat bonuses would stay when you switch a job.

Before veteran dupes could brag to newbies "Look how fast i can cook this meallice and not make you puke!"

[RonEmpire]

I'm not quite sure I like the new system for the JOBS.
Considering the Dupes are not really retaining certain stats (when you take them off a job)- they sort of become disposable as you get new replacement dupes.

The game playstyle/behavior pattern is going to end up like this:

Spend a ton of time trying to get the best 3 DUPES.

Take whatever dupe you can that pops out of the Printing Pod to fill a role, and discard them later when a better dupe comes out.
(reason is you want to maintain a low population because of the food/oxygen situation)

Switching roles back and forth between research and whatever else until you no longer need to research.

Finding Ruins that level up a Dupe to Athletic 10.  (save and reload until you get that stat and nothing else).

[Pavlik]

I agree with Anduril's opinion. And I hope that the developers will hear us. Now I do not want to update this game. Cause new job system!

[BlueLance]

@goboking Could you add a POLL in this thread? there are many replies heavily liked for the against area, but I think a Poll will give the devs a thing to look at straight away.

[Steelflame]

I prefer the old jobs system over the current one, but what I think would be best would be a sort of hybrid of the two.

Here is how I see it.   Task require a certain level of stat.  You only have two ways to get this stat, either your dupe's innate stat pool, or via job training.  Notably, a base 5 cooking dupe can handle an electric grill without training, but otherwise you may end up having to give them cooking training to manage.  Now that base 5 cooking dupe would be way better overall than the other long term if he also got training, but the one who got training would be able to outpace them short term.

So, digging, for instance, would lock mining Abyssalite behind something like mining 6.  High enough that you almost without a doubt will have to have dedicated mining training to do, but possible without if the dupe rolls perfectly for it.   The Super Computer requires a research level of 5 to operate, ect.

Interest would serve a completely different function, not increased growth rate in a job, but a stress/food need reduction while assigned to that job as if they were working a job 2 tier below whatever it actually is.   This makes interest not just be getto-research stat, by giving actual benefits to working the job they want.

Jobs would have no innate priority system at all.  Instead, it is entirely within the dupe what priority is.  You can set it at the job screen for what they personally will prioritize, with a prioritization level. 0(disabled)/1/2/3/4/5.  They will prioritize jobs with higher ratings, so if you want your miners to also handle building and delivering, you just have to assign them to have that job at a similar priority to their own mining priority.  If you want your cook to also farm, just make sure they have similar priority ratings in their job panel and they happily will, ect.   Note that this is independent of the GLOBAL priority rating, aka what you can set for all dupes.  Dupes will add together their personal priority with the global priority (unless they are set to priority 0 for a task, at which point they will ignore it completely no matter what) to decide what they will do at any point in time.

 

This is the system I'd overall be happiest with.  Tying what a dupe wants to do on an individual basis gives far better levers of control, rather than the broad strokes of the current job system that tends to squeeze the dupe's tiny brains too tight to do anything else but what the job specifically says they are supposed to do.

[goboking]

7 hours ago, Steelflame said:

So, digging, for instance, would lock mining Abyssalite behind something like mining 6.  High enough that you almost without a doubt will have to have dedicated mining training to do, but possible without if the dupe rolls perfectly for it.   The Super Computer requires a research level of 5 to operate, ect.

Is this necessary?  Does gating the ability to use an electric grill or dig through abyssalite behind job restrictions or attribute thresholds really add anything to the game other than a hoop to jump through?  That's a stick; I'd rather have a carrot.  Instead of punishing us for not doing this or that (you can't do X unless you meet requirement Y), how about rewarding us (you can do X, but you can do it better if you meet requirement Y)?

[Saturnus]

28 minutes ago, goboking said:

That's a stick; I'd rather have a carrot. 

Yup. Veggie food is better than spanky food.

[AtmaDarkwolf]

I would prefer a mix of the two, OR a 'mastery retains bonus' type method.

 

As it is now, dupes can't improve UNLESS they at a job, and even that's a waste if u later need said dupe somewhere else.

 

Would much prefer the old system with the new 'jobs' giving bonus toward said job(Related stats boost) or like many have suggested, a mastery permanent bonus.

[Keyimin]

OK, I'm at a loss for how the devs have decided to set these job "tiers" up. Researcher, farmer, and cook are all tier 2 jobs. According to the jobs screen, this means they want food above a level 1 food source. How are we supposed to get food above a level 1 without research, farming, and a cook? Sure, basic research can be done without that job, but 1) the researcher never gets any better at it because no more skill-ups (why?), and 2) you need an assigned researcher to use the super computer, which is pretty much required for everything but the basics. Also, your non-assigned researcher has other jobs to do that are equally important when you only have a few dupes starting out.

Literally everything needed to progress past the first few cycles in the game requires research, and better foods require farming and cooking. Outside of just accepting high stress, which shouldn't be baked into the game as a "given" just for jobs, and needing to plop down massage tables earlier than makes any sense (240W of power per says hello), am I missing something here? Maybe I'm just too used to keeping a nice, tidy, stress-free colony by taking my time with expansion. Speaking of which, those of us who like to keep our colonies to 6 dupes or less are taking a HUGE hit with this change. I've gone the first 100-200 cycles on 4 dupes many times, and I prefer to keep a small crew until I feel things are stable and how I want them before I accept more dupes. I'm not a huge fan of having a different approach forced on me.

I LOVE that a jobs system of more depth is being implemented, and the additions to the game in this upgrade are generally amazing. This jobs thing though -- I know all too well that first iterations are often riddled with issues that ultimately get sorted mostly for the better, but this preview really has me scratching my head on the logistics. I desperately disagree with removing skill-ups for non-assigned jobs, and I'm struggling to see the "vision" of how this is currently intended to work without being more frustrating than fun, especially in the early game (which is something that should be LESS frustrating, not more, particularly for new players).

[Roxanne4018]

I understand why people don't like it. I personally do and dont at the same time.

In my experience, the first 2 cycles of a new base goes incredibly smooth and then you run into the issues of them not getting faster which is a bummer. (But it may force us to use tubes and other ways to move faster earlier - like conveyers)

I feel like what they are trying to do with the "jobs" is to force us to specialize a couple of dupes in order for them to work that new technology. That part I appreciate very much so and feel like as the game content grows it will make more and more sense. 

A part of me also wonders and they don't want to force us to use more dupes early on and that we would have to reject more of them. It really comes back to resources management. Yeah the game is slower to play but all those extra cycles means more resource consumption. And I like that part of the challenge. 

However I do feel like their should be a bigger difference between old and new dupes. Maybe skills should still grow but "jobs" unlocks would take longer and be more drastic as in what you can and cannot do instead of the speed at witch you do it.

You can still manage dupes with door access efficiently. it really just comes down to is the game fun to play and the slower movement did bring the fun down.

[Kabrute]

Those tier 2 jobs survive just fine on lice loaf or and I'm just putting this out there, raw bristle berries, no cooking, same quality as loaf can eat right off.  Hard to get real numbers of plants going but once you do its well worth it.

[PhailRaptor]

4 hours ago, Roxanne4018 said:

In my experience, the first 2 cycles of a new base goes incredibly smooth and then you run into the issues of them not getting faster which is a bummer. (But it may force us to use tubes and other ways to move faster earlier - like conveyers)

I can only assume that I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say, because it sounds like you only see a small window of time between "cycle 2" and having a Plastic Factory up and running in order to install Tubes.