Do you prefer the new job system or the old?

[PhailRaptor]

3 minutes ago, ScottFree said:

Fundamentally, the game is the same.

A core system of gameplay has been quite substantially reworked, and it's "fundamentally the same"?  Huh?

[watermelen671]

Never forget Klei's new moto:

[Oozinator]

5 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

Never forget Klei's new moto:

You little creative evilish thing!

[Ichikai]

I just can't justify having a system where your standard dupe has, and forever will have, a base of 0% extra movement speed and 200 kg of carrying capacity, in perpetuity. No matter how many times a specific dupe repeats a specific task.
Unless they put on a magical hat.

In contrast right now, dupes straight out of the pod, have a base of 600 kg capacity and level athletics like crazy, so it's a non-issue.

How about some middle ground? Where dupes still progress up to a certain point at a more balanced rate, and also give meaning to the occupation system that gives static boosts. So you got your limited jack of all trades dupes with obvious mastery of none, and your hat toting specialists with mastery of a single trade, (while also not being atrocious at everything else).

Fun fact, anemic dupes with -5 athletics or less have 0 carry capacity, but still seem to pick up at least 1kg, so they can at least feed themselves?

Lets say for the sake of example, dupes can level up to 10 in any attribute by doing specific tasks related to it. Any dupe will eventually at least get to 10 athletics giving them +100% movement speed (still a far cry from super dupes) and a total of 600 kg carrying capacity. Occupation will give static boosts up to a point too, thus fulfilling the update's purpose as well.

All this is ignoring extra attributes and traits, a starting dupe with lets say +2 athletics would get to 12 without an occupation and an anemic with -5 will get to 5 athletics w/o occupation.

 

At this point i'm just spit balling, but there could also be a rpg element where dupes earn attribute points that by default get added to their specific job attributes, but also giving the option to spend them yourself, for instance; saying you want this dupe to be a miner but you also don't want him to be at turtle speed so you spend most on digging and some on athletics.
Honestly, don't even know how i feel about a system like that myself. Though if implemented correctly it could give one a sense of progression and attachment to relevant dupes, maybe.
Idk, like I said, brain farting.

[watermelen671]

2 hours ago, Oozinator said:

You little creative evilish thing!

No really, Jarret said that. It's official. :3

[RonEmpire]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 12:51 AM, The Plum Gate said:

Can't dig, but interested in digging...hmm, some sort of voyeur.

I noticed that as well.  Having interest in something but a trait that blocks them from doing so.

It's also like a guy who can't DIG.  but has tons of digging skill points.   (same as high construction points on attributes with interest in construction,  but cant construct??).

Not sure if this is one of those  "IT'S TRAP"  trick question making the player think about what they're picking or not.  But it seems rather silly and not a pleasant experience for new players to have to think about the consequence of this.   This should be filtered out from being rolled.

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:17 PM, goboking said:

The absence of Strength is a bummer, though.  Has this been rolled into Athletics?  Or will all dupes be limited to carrying the same amount of material now and forever?

Strength I think is still there.   Just not showing up in the Stats page for some reason  BECAUSE   you can roll  "BUFF"  as a trait.  And it says they have +150 carrying capacity. 
 

[ScottFree]

7 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

A core system of gameplay has been quite substantially reworked, and it's "fundamentally the same"?  Huh?

The presentation of skills and priorities changed. The substance of the game is identical. The only substantive change to gameplay is productivity. Ordering dupes to make one room at a time instead of 2 isn't change worth criticizing imo. The difference is execution and with enough dupes, even that balances out in about 20-30 cycles.

 

 

[The Plum Gate]

1 hour ago, RonEmpire said:

Strength I think is still there.   Just not showing up in the Stats page for some reason  BECAUSE   you can roll  "BUFF"  as a trait.  And it says they have +150 carrying capacity. 

That and carry capacity is a function of athletics, I think an additional 20kg per point.

The benefactors being that the gofer and courier jobs add to athletics while buffing carry capacity..

So you get 400kg + 120 or 240 + 200kg + 40x the number of athletics skill points they had as baseline...

Some of my dupes can carry 900kg + with the buff attribute even more.

[voyager156]

Well, now I played over a dozen hours of Occupational Upgrade preview - and I really don't like it. Everything is so slow!

This new job system feels "artificial" and not intuitive. Devs should rework / balanced the old one. It was great in my opinion! Duplicant performs an activity - and gains experience in it. Of course this required some tweaking - but not this.

Until the preview I enjoyed all ONI games. Now when I play - I just fill frustration, and what's worst - I'm bored.

[Oozinator]

3 minutes ago, voyager156 said:

Well, now I played over a dozen hours of Occupational Upgrade preview - and I really don't like it. Everything is so slow!

This new job system feels "artificial" and not intuitive. Devs should rework / balanced the old one. It was great in my opinion! Duplicant performs an activity - and gains experience in it. Of course this required some tweaking - but not this.

Until the preview I enjoyed all ONI games. Now when I play - I just fill frustration, and what's worst - I'm bored.

same feelings here

1 hour ago, Oozinator said:

Every piece aof algae in my viewrange was in a bad spot and digging/building ladders 20 tiles to get 1t..
There are situations, where not enough time is, to react (now).
In the next map i had no geyser in range and in my actual map it's a pain to build abasylite isolated tiles in some spots. They are so freaking slow, so many times ending their path (toilet/food) or dropping material loooong laddercorridors down. Some duplicants went completely busy with that job. I had to break long corridors (first time, since i play oni). Down firepoles are ok, but up i needed some steps, or they are stuck in a loop. High prio there will kill the base. Had very complicated things to do, to get them down to the oil. I locked them down at work, dropped some food there, to get it done..
ONI is now to boring for me, i wait for next update/patch ^^

 

 

[PhailRaptor]

The more this gets discussed, the more I feel like the Job system shouldn't revolve around stat increases.  With raw stats as the focus, with no permanent gains outside of the Job, it is creating a whole slew of other problems that now also need solutions.  Jobs should give perks to performing that job, rather than stats.

Let me see if I can articulate this...

Go back to all tasks giving "experience" in that stat, though with most of them having their rates reduced (particularly Athletics).  Access to a given Job should require certain minimum stat requirements, but for entry level Jobs the requirements should be low, all under 3.  Being in a given Job gives a perk(s) to that Dupe, and accelerates the rate of stat gain in the relevant stats (ex, a Miner accelerating Digging).  Having an Interest in a given area will also accelerate stat gain.  Stepping up to higher levels in the same profession would require higher stat points be reached (some of which may not be primaries to the Job), and would strengthen the existing perk(s) or add new ones.

This can then go hand-in-hand with some other equipment or stations, specifically for the purpose of training Dupes in a given stat, gated behind multiple Research items.

[Sniper_IX]

I don't like it.

This isn't making the game any more difficult. It's simply making it slower. More time does not equal more difficult, it just makes the game boring and unplayable.

Having dupes level up their skills relatively fast wasn't an issue. The game is incredibly fun and challenging when you have 2-3 projects going at the same time, and that can only happen if your dupes reached sufficient skill to zip around and mine/build at lightning speed. Now it's more like set a task, then turn off your screen and go do something else. Alternatively you can watch your dupes mine a tunnel for 20 minutes if that's your thing.

I'm aware of the tubes/conveyor systems, but honestly those are late game luxuries and at the rate the game plays I doubt anyone will care enough to get to that stage. 

I just don't think this is the kind of sim that needs to be slowed down; I don't enjoy watching grass grow or paint dry. Ultraspeed is still broken and 3x isn't putting a dent in to projects since the dupe's skills suck.

[Kabrute]

I'm going to try completely decentralizing my base and see if that helps :/

[noric]

Meh, seems I can't have 4-6 super dupes doing everything until I get around to building the infrastructure for larger numbers. Been picking up more sub optimal dupes because I need a job filled. Overall I dont mind the system, one change I would make. We have 5 occupation ranks to work with so +3 bonus skill per rank and a capped xp rank of +2 per mastered rank. Meaning a rank 3 gofer could train up to +6 athletics and get another +9 athletics by putting on the hat. Would need to add mostly empty ranks for now and it would mess with the decor/food needs.

Would still give a reason for jobs and allow older dupes that have done multiple jobs to be better.

[chromiumboy]

I'm kind of torn on this. In the new system, base stats are much more important than they were, and that makes for more interesting choices at the start of the game. By tying dupe demands to progression you give the player more agency in deciding how to manage stress.

The game does slow down because of the lack of skill ups, but that could potentially be balanced by increasing the base dupe run speed and tweaking starting stats. Stress is also pretty much non-existant at the moment, mid teir dupes still will raw mealworm without any sustained increase in stress, but again I feel that could be resolved with balancing.

I don't feel that the player, once a dupe masters a teir on a career path, should be able to demote them to a lower point on the same path. No reward without risk! Also, once a dupe masters a teir on a path, all benefits and expectations should become locked. A dupe can switch hats and retain the skills / abilities they have mastered, however, expectations will compound (e.g., a dupe that mastered two first teir careers will have higher demands than a dupe who has only mastered one)

[ImpactedTooth]

I really like that stats mean more than just "does x but faster", but I think more could be done with them. Like an architect with + creativity could make buildings with a higher decor value or someone cooking with no or low cooking skill could result in a sub par product randomly.

  However, I always run really small bases, 4 dupes max, and after a while it is hard to get anything done without just forcing them all to do it via strict priority 5. It is definitely a lot slower to start a base. I will have to try running a larger base and see if that helps.

I would like it more if a dupe could have 2 jobs active, a primary and a secondary, as it is pretty annoying to have to switch my chef and seasoned miner around all the time. The second specialization could be limited to a tier below their primary job so you wouldn't have a seasoned miner and chef, but a seasoned miner and junior chef if there is concern of having over powered dupes.

[voyager156]

Also, I just love when a duplicant has like: Athletics 5, Digging 4 and no other skills. In his "interests" we can read "art".

Or duplicant has: interests "cook" + he has a flaw "gastrophobia".

[BlueLance]

I honestly prefer the new job system and hers is why;

I NEVER used the old one, I left everything ticked and let the dupes do what they wanted to do. At least now I have to decide (I want to mine abyssalite? need to train a miner!)

But it also stops all my duped reaching level 50 athletics and zooming about the map. with 16+ dupes an entire project is done in like 2 or 3 cycles because they can all move there and back in like 5 seconds. 

It adds a layer of challenge for me because I now need to think what am I going to need. Food seems more scarce, food and decor may actually provide a threat, I honestly enjoy it. 

BUT

I am one person, and the game is played by many. So some may like the changes and others may not. I am looking forward to seeing what an engineer etc can do when fine tuning generators etc, but currently I just have all of my dupes as miners, or gofers because I am expanding and moving resources rapidly.

[NanoD]

What I hate with the new system is that you can only have 3 on the same job. Feels like having straitjacket. If you have to do a limit then you have done it wrong. It should be natural that you dont want every one on same job. Not any artificial restrictions.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, NanoD said:

What I hate with the new system is that you can only have 3 on the same job. Feels like having straitjacket. If you have to do a limit then you have done it wrong. It should be natural that you dont want every one on same job. Not any artificial restrictions.

Yeah, those 3 gofers and courier positions gets filled pretty fast

[BlueLance]

5 minutes ago, NanoD said:

What I hate with the new system is that you can only have 3 on the same job. Feels like having straitjacket. If you have to do a limit then you have done it wrong. It should be natural that you dont want every one on same job. Not any artificial restrictions.

WAIT WHAT? It limited?? Ok now that is pretty bull. I mean I was gonna end up with a bunch of miners....

[Ichikai]

4 hours ago, BlueLance said:

I am looking forward to seeing what an engineer etc can do when fine tuning generators

Engineer can "delete" limited resource (refined metal) for temporary generator boosts.

[BlueLance]

4 minutes ago, Ichikai said:

Engineer can "delete" limited resource (refined metal) for temporary generator boosts.

Yeah i found this out later after my first message.... and its copper. I use copper solely for exo suits so I donno if I would use it, but the starting biome looks bigger so maybe there is more copper.

[NanoD]

Electrical Engineer will be a lazy bum. Not much for him  to do. 

Maybe he can tune upp the hamster wheel so that the unemployed dupes have something to do.

[Saturnus]

20 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

Yeah i found this out later after my first message.... and its copper. I use copper solely for exo suits so I donno if I would use it, but the starting biome looks bigger so maybe there is more copper.

Actually they use any refined metal. Since you cannot set the type it's usually ends up being copper. I'm guessing because it's generally closer but not sure.