Why the lack of PVP features?

[TheKingofSquirrels]

Since the beginning of DST, I was surprised by how little attention Klei gave to the PVP side of the game. I mean, if I remember correctly, when they were first testing out the servers, one of the first things the developers ever did was have a Battle Royale between them. DST is just naturally a perfect environment for PVP, and yet, 90% of the focus goes to PVE. Why?

Which got me thinking of so many things that just feel like missed opportunities. So I made a list.

Hunger Games Mode

I mean...I don't understand how this hasn't been made yet, given the massive popularity of it (look at PUBG). Can't this be like a Forge event? Because obviously you don't wanna split the community with different modes and such.

I feel safe in saying that I think people would like this a thousand times more than the Horde mode that Forge is currently. I mean imagine, you all spawn in a circle, weapons and backpacks full of food and items are at the centre. You either stay for the loot and fight, or you run and try to survive without weapons. The maps could be smaller, maybe actually designed, rather than randomly generated, with interesting structure layouts and such. 

And I think it would benefit from being a Forge event, as you could re-design the game so it's more balanced (e.g: Wolfgang doesn't destroy everyone).

Traps

I get why Tooth traps are player friendly. The number one use for them is for Hound shelters, so they should stay as they are, but what about other traps? The Bee Mine for example. I made a post a day ago asking if people use the Bee Mine at all and it seems to be a mostly unused item. How about making this a PVP item? It would give it a use. You could cover your base with them, or use them as distractions as you ran away from a Might Formed Wolfgang. 

And what about new traps? What about a Bush Trap (Tooth Trap + Bush, it's a seemingly normal bush plant that grows berries, but only the player who planted can pick it, or they'll get hit). Maybe bring back the Maxwell Traps? I just feel traps atm are just such a missed opportunity. 

Bush Hat

The Bush Hat should be re-designed to look like an ordinary bush when the player hides. There's no point otherwise! Player's can spot the difference. Imagine how useful the Bush Hat would be when you're being chased by players, if it actually looked like any ordinary bush and could hide you effectively.

Also, bonus points, if it's changed so that, while hiding, players can pick the berries from it.

Forge

PVP arena. Enough said.

That's it.

[Sinister_Fang]

Well, for good pvp you usually need to have a good combat system. So between the boring combat and the game's latency issues, it's no wonder pvp never got much attention.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

5 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Well, for good pvp you usually need to have a good combat system. So between the boring combat and the game's latency issues, it's no wonder pvp never got much attention.

I was gonna say that you have a point, but actually, no...This is not true. The latency issue is the only thing.

There used to be very popular servers for PVP (there might still be, but I haven't checked lately). Even with the latency issues, there was still fun to be had. Yes, the "movement prediction command" would need to be changed, but for the most part, it still worked and it was really interesting. I mean if it was so broken, why would people bother making mods and special servers for PVP?

And the biggest thing I disagree with you...You said that it's boring combat. Not all combat system has to have special moves like Forge to be interesting. Stuff like individual character powers, magic items, sanity and weather conditions, mobs, Beefalo riding have always made fights in DST exciting. Honestly, they have been some of my favourites moment I've experienced in this game. And stuff like the Wolfgang and Wicker team ups, seeing how WX-78 used his Oveload for PVP and how Maxwell uses his clones are really interesting in PVP.

So sorry, no, I just don't think what you said is true at all. 

 

 

 

[Mario384]

PVP is extremely alienating and unfairly balanced in some cases, but regardless, with a few tweaks, can be loads of fun.  PVP servers used to be more popular back in the day, but that fad died down a while ago.  I feel if some mechanics, like the Pan Flute, were more balanced, PVP could be great fun.  There was a mod that fixed stuff with PVP that a certain server used, but it no longer works as of now.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

10 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Well, for good pvp you usually need to have a good combat system. So between the boring combat and the game's latency issues, it's no wonder pvp never got much attention.

Nothing about these moments seem boring to me.

 

[Sinister_Fang]

32 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Nothing about these moments seem boring to me.

-snip-

Really? Because the majority of the time I just saw people running away. They didn't seem to actually engage each other unless one of them had a method of stopping them from running. (although I will admit that the 2nd video did have a funny ending, but the actual pvp parts weren't entertaining)

This also doesn't change the fact that there's still little to no depth with the combat system. It's pretty much whoever has the better equipment more then actual player skill. I think for a good pvp system skill should carry you more then stats, levels or equipment.

[Endedbox45]

A lot of the items in don't starve are really unbalanced, that's why the new reign bosses are damage sponges.

when it comes to PVP in this game. Really it's just who chose a better character, better items, and hit & run tactics. 

 

[MrKoopa]

I like the idea with Bushtraps and I agree that bush hats should make it so that when you hide you should look like a normal bush.

[fimmatek]

7 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

It's pretty much whoever has the better equipment more then actual player skill. I think for a good pvp system skill should carry you more then stats, levels or equipment.

I agree with it with a little correction, that is one need to be extremely skilled to win with worse conditions. SketchedPhilo couldn't have beaten any Wolfgangs as Wendy if winning were the question only of equipment.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

2 hours ago, Endedbox45 said:

A lot of the items in don't starve are really unbalanced, that's why the new reign bosses are damage sponges.

when it comes to PVP in this game. Really it's just who chose a better character, better items, and hit & run tactics. 

 

Guys wins a 3 vs. 1 battle. The other team were some of the best characters, Wigfrid and Wickerbottom, and had some of the best items, Fire Staff  and Pan Flute...AND HE STILL WON.

In the other video he played as Maxwell, and yes he lost, but he's played that character before and been incredible in PVP. If you're good. It doesn't matter who you pick. I've see people be champions as Wes. You don't have to be Wolfgang to win.

8 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Really? Because the majority of the time I just saw people running away. They didn't seem to actually engage each other unless one of them had a method of stopping them from running. (although I will admit that the 2nd video did have a funny ending, but the actual pvp parts weren't entertaining)

This also doesn't change the fact that there's still little to no depth with the combat system. It's pretty much whoever has the better equipment more then actual player skill. I think for a good pvp system skill should carry you more then stats, levels or equipment.

 

[56933043043]

3 hours ago, fimmatek said:

I agree with it with a little correction, that is one need to be extremely skilled to win with worse conditions. SketchedPhilo couldn't have beaten any Wolfgangs as Wendy if winning were the question only of equipment.

I hate to say it, but this game's PvP is hideously unbalanced. The only reason I was able to enjoy it in the first place was because some people were blatantly inexperienced or because I had friends that didn't feel like completely cheesing me with stuff like the Pan flute or sleep. Characters like Wolfgang, Wx78 and especially Wickerbottom with her sleep book seriously outshine all the other characters. In the vanilla game, most of the characters we have can work because it's not a competition and they have small niches to excel at.

I'm sure you may have seen me beat Wolfgangs before, but that was related to my equipment too? To win my fights I either need to have good ping(not reliable) or bring too many heals to die(I refuse to spam blue caps out of some weird sense of not wanting to cheese people even though that's not helpful in a competition at all) or rush the heck out of equipment(like dark swords or thulecite crowns).

There definitely is a skill component in PvP, but a lot of the "skill" in this game is to pick one of those 3 characters and just rush the pan flute or get STS(sleep is extremely strong).Having friends that are willing to compromise and not use everything at their disposal helps make the experience more enjoyable, but even then. Setting up equipment can take 2 hours but the fight itself just 1-2 minutes. It's a time sink I don't think a lot of people want to go through, especially if your opponent whistles a snide tune on a little flute and wails on you while you drowsily shamble around.

Even just having 2 people fight 1 gives an exponential advantage. Easy stunlock!

 

[brbrmensch]

pvp for survival

pros:

can cool down each other with ice staff

electrifying wx with darts 

cons:

autotarget

can't use pan flute or sleepytime stories for dragonfly or krampus farm

Spoiler

but i gotta confess: i had fun on pvp server once

Spoiler

here i'm running to pig village (yes, day 11) to battle (but other guys teamed up and got flute)

 

 

[Auth]

As someone who has played and hosted quite a few PvP worlds, I can 100% confirm:

it's boring as hell, man.

 

Wigfrid, a character designed to be good in combat, is worthless in PvP, lowering the number of "actually viable characters"

Wickerbottom is more brokenly overpowered than she normally is,

If a WX has a shred of competency and gets some good gears, it's game over for everyone else (ESPECIALLY if he was a wickerbottom buddy)

Most people usually don't survive the first days of winter anyway due to the general lack of base in a PvP server or lack of time spent getting winter gear,

If someone sees you coming, they can usually effectively keep running away forever due to the fact that ranged items are very abstract crafting recipes

Some clown is going to rush the ruins and be unbeatable,

 

And I mean, being only able to effectively pick 3 characters that excel at pvp (Golfwang, Bickerwottom and 7X-W8) is really boring.

[Queron81]

PVP would only make sense in an event, where the combat system and the characters are balanced.

[GiddyGuy]

20 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

DST is just naturally a perfect environment for PVP

This is wrong because stun locking is a feature in this game, so you either have better ping or magic.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

5 hours ago, Auth said:

As someone who has played and hosted quite a few PvP worlds, I can 100% confirm:

it's boring as hell, man.

 

Wigfrid, a character designed to be good in combat, is worthless in PvP, lowering the number of "actually viable characters"

Wickerbottom is more brokenly overpowered than she normally is,

If a WX has a shred of competency and gets some good gears, it's game over for everyone else (ESPECIALLY if he was a wickerbottom buddy)

Most people usually don't survive the first days of winter anyway due to the general lack of base in a PvP server or lack of time spent getting winter gear,

If someone sees you coming, they can usually effectively keep running away forever due to the fact that ranged items are very abstract crafting recipes

Some clown is going to rush the ruins and be unbeatable,

 

And I mean, being only able to effectively pick 3 characters that excel at pvp (Golfwang, Bickerwottom and 7X-W8) is really boring.

The first part,I feel is nothing more than a personal opinion and I don't know how to respond other than saying "Well I really enjoy them".

The second part, as a Wigfrid main on PVP servers, I don't see this at all. I've been hugely successful with her. I've also seen great Maxwell players, who use their clones to their advantage. I've also seen Woody players who use the Werebeaver effectively for PVP. Also Webber, with armies of spiders.

Honestly, I don't think there's bad characters, just bad players

Maybe Wilson, Wendy, Willow and Wes are the ones you could say are at disadvantage, but that can be balanced depending on what equipment you have.

[Toros]

1 hour ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

The first part,I feel is nothing more than a personal opinion and I don't know how to respond other than saying "Well I really enjoy them".

The second part, as a Wigfrid main on PVP servers, I don't see this at all. I've been hugely successful with her. I've also seen great Maxwell players, who use their clones to their advantage. I've also seen Woody players who use the Werebeaver effectively for PVP. Also Webber, with armies of spiders.

Honestly, I don't think there's bad characters, just bad players

Maybe Wilson, Wendy, Willow and Wes are the ones you could say are at disadvantage, but that can be balanced depending on what equipment you have.

Your level of detailed and accurate analysis never fails to astonish me.

By which I mean that no part of your post was right, zero good pvp players would agree, and you should focus on school and not the deluge of terrible topics you’ve started.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

Just now, Toros said:

Your level of detailed and accurate analysis never fails to astonish me.

By which I mean that no part of your post was right, zero good pvp players would agree, and you should focus on school and not the deluge of terrible topics you’ve started.

I'm not in school. Well, I'm at uni, still...Stop with the patronising crap.Thank you.

[Toros]

20 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I'm not in school. Well, I'm at uni, still...Stop with the patronising crap.Thank you.

Patronizing: treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority.

 

I don’t believe my actions could be described as particularly kind, so I’m going to object to being called patronizing.

[Auth]

3 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

The first part,I feel is nothing more than a personal opinion and I don't know how to respond other than saying "Well I really enjoy them".

The second part, as a Wigfrid main on PVP servers, I don't see this at all. I've been hugely successful with her. I've also seen great Maxwell players, who use their clones to their advantage. I've also seen Woody players who use the Werebeaver effectively for PVP. Also Webber, with armies of spiders.

Honestly, I don't think there's bad characters, just bad players

Maybe Wilson, Wendy, Willow and Wes are the ones you could say are at disadvantage, but that can be balanced depending on what equipment you have.

1: You can have a good time on them, sure, but they really wear out quick and get stale faster than butterfly wings left out in summer.

2: Try maining wigfrid when someone is force feeding you vegetables while someone else is relentlessly smacking you.

3: If someone just focuses the maxwell, he can be obliterated quite quickly and easily by a wolfgang or overcharged WX, even faster if someone else grabs the attention of his minions for you. Plus, they are susceptible to all other forms of damage (Especially if you get in a fight with nature before going to PvP, those little shadow idiots are absolutely awful at fighting certain things) much like Abigail, and followers in general really shouldn't be counted on in PvP due to finnicky AI and just the fact they can be dispatched of easily anyway.

4: Werebeaver in it's entirety is a disadvantage and in PvP it's a crutch for not having better equipment at the time.

5: That takes a lot of time to get a good army and usually requires people to come to you because the number of personal spider followers you can have isn't precisely a huge number.

6: You say there aren't bad characters, but only bad players, yet then point out there are characters with clear disadvantages in combat over others. And don't try to cover it up with equipment, of course a Wendy with thulecite gear and blow darts will flatten a wolfgang with grass armor, duh. If any character gets powerful gear, they themselves are powerful.

 

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I have about 200 hours of just PvP servers back in their prime.

[56933043043]

12 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

 I've also seen Woody players who use the Werebeaver effectively for PVP.

Did any of the people they fought have a boomerang? Ice staff? Fire staff? Anything to inflict sleep?

[Mario384]

34 minutes ago, Sketched_Philo said:

Did any of the people they fought have a boomerang? Ice staff? Fire staff? Anything to inflict sleep?

As a beaver main, this.  Quite frankly, Beaver has no counter to ranged attacks, and will get easily beaten if the opponent uses them... at all, really.  Beaver can't heal, so using a boomerang a few times is extremely effective and really offers no downside, because Beavers can't catch boomerangs.

[Starlogy]

Honestly, I'd like to see a little bit of balancing for PvP. Trust me, I really would. It'd be something different.

But the mechanics in this game simply aren't for PvP. Hell, if it has to be balanced for more than one person to even play cooperatively, then it's a nightmare to try balancing for PvP.

As for maining Wigfrid in PvP... jesus christ you must've been playing with bad people lol

[56933043043]

19 hours ago, Starlogy said:

As for maining Wigfrid in PvP... jesus christ you must've been playing with bad people lol

She's a good pick if you joined a server late thanks to her helm and spear. That way, you can survive combat for 6 minutes instead of 6 seconds.

[GLERMZ]

This topic almost everytime there is an update. I think it's fair to assume that it's not their priority since it would require a major overhaul of the game mechanics, making same posts over and over will not make it happen any faster. Specially when most of the community fan of PVP already departed to other games. 

The most you can wish for, is a special event like forge that instead of being PVE will be PVP, since they can just throw in a whole other mechanics that you dont have in the base game. That i agree, would be a good idea.