To kick or not to kick

[Arash70]

Well, since newcomers would have to burn stuff to survive in winter,

is it moral to kick them or not? 

what do you think?

would you think of it as "griefing" and kick them?

or you would just count it as survival and not?

[Donke60]

I summon the amazing @ImDaMisterL move please

 

 

@Arash70 be more specific this is really vague 

[Arash70]

Ok, 

some days ago I was playing in a klei official server, and I joined at day 19, they kicked me and told me that you joined 1 day before winter,

so this question raise up in my head, is it ok to kick players joining in winter? 

[Donke60]

Well no but they will need help because they have virtually no prep time.  I say what they did was mean but understandable I wish you better luck next time joining public is really a rolling of dice 

[ImDaMisterL]

Moved to the DST General Discussion

[Lumina]

I would not do it, i expect people joining in winter to be cautious, because you need to burn things, sure, but you can choose to burn things without destroying important resource (you can burn tree, for example, i don't care).

I understand the reasoning for the ban but i don't like "free" ban like this. I never saw it happened when i played on public server.

[KastorRegma]

Nyah its not. Kicking people just for joining on the wrong day is not a good excuse.

 

Yes they can be a burden but we all were noobs at some points (except you who has been reading wikis and watching speedruns from the get go(YEAH I AM TALKING TO YOU MATE)).

In the end if you kick like that, people will drop the game and we will be walking on the empty servers, on the boulevard of broken dreams.

 

Also 90% of the time people will die on their own in winter on summer and before you can even type do you want a rez? they log out on their own (so its pointless). But if they stick around to be rezzed they may be worh keeping since that does show dedication to the team(or to the dream of a burning base). And if they grief jokes on them cause rollbaaaaaaaaaaaack.

 

 I only once joined a klei server on winter and found a stag key for klaus(which helped the team cause they were looking for that) before i died(no grass left for torches) and after some time and effort found the base and got rezzed. And then did a good amount of damage on Klaus and helped as well as I could (was only wolfgang at this point, pretty much carried the fight). Point being there is literally no point kicking people for just joining and who knows they might be of use (95% of times they aren't but its fine).

Best solution :just let them die and the following things will happen.

-1. they can come to base as ghosts (one ghost is not that bad on sanity and every player should learn to deal with insanity to some extend if they want to survive first year) and they are useful

-2. they log out immediately

- 3.they get rezzed and grief base, (kick then rollback)

-4 they get rezzed and start misusing resources (talk then plausible kick)

Also the reason i say let someone die if they join on a harsh season is because usually 1. i don't have the means to save them in time( we need food-light and heat for two people)

2. valuable winter time which involves a trip from and back to base and since people may join repeatedly its not feasible to come back and forth all the time(Just pluck a moonlens at base and they can get there dead or alive)

3.Winter is a reaaaaally busy season you want to be farming all walruses every 4 days, prepare for klaus and deerclops and mine as much ice as possible. Having the expectation that people can teleport to spawn with all necessities  to save you from death is plain unreasonable.

The only time i actually help people get from spawn to base in winter is when i am passing by there and i have both a hat and thermal(i give them one of those) and share my food on my way to base (if i am going to walrus(or somewhere other than base) i point where base is..

4. If deercclops is about to spawn you don't want to have a newcomer fiddling in base (unless oldest player is smart enough to place 4 structures near him before he spawns).

 

All in all the reasons why kicking people at harsh seasons is bad is 1. Its mean 2. You might be throwing away a valuable long run asset 3. If you don't have resources at the start of winter or during winter to support another player then your team (and plausibly you) are bad (just get wicker to spam books before winter starts (hit 200+ berries at least or gather ice and kill birds  or bunnymen etc.) 4. You are literally assuming they are bad and deny them having fun in public server (go get a password if you want to do that) 5. The damage they can do is laughable and undoable with a few clicks (like seriously rolllback is amaaaaaaaaaaaaazing) 6. Its fun interacting with other people (even if that involves being a wiki or answering constantly  to where is baseeeeeeeeeeee). if you don't want to be annoyed by it join a passworded server 7. from heaven 8. is great 9. is algae(wait wut?) 10. not everyone has evil intent

 

Also who knows you might actually make a friend.

 

 

 

[Arash70]

Quote

In the end if you kick like that, people will drop the game and we will be walking on the empty servers, on the boulevard of broken dreams.

Its a very complicated game, especially while played in public servers. I personally never get offended by anything in this game, and try to understand everything, including social interactions, within it (Charlie's game, you should learn to behave DUH).

I dont believe this game would be dropped like that, If you kicked out of one public server, there are lots of others to join in to. in my opinion,  part of the Dont Starve Together experience, is failure, in fact, you learn more through failures than successes.

 

Quote

Yes they can be a burden but we all were noobs at some points (except you who has been reading wikis and watching speedruns from the get go(YEAH I AM TALKING TO YOU MATE)).

With almost 300 hours on record, I'm still noob xD, I prefer to make my own method of survival though, watching speedruns and wiki and copying others, takes away the fun and joy of experiencing stuff and learning through it.

for example: I've just learned that 1 tooth-trap = 1 wood + 1 rope + 1 hound's teeth

Its just like learning a language, I learned this through dying several times to hounds, and felt the need to make tooth-traps, and made it "active".

now if you go to wikis and reference videos and etc. you'll learn it, like a word you read out of the dictionary, it would just be "passive", and most likely easily forgotten.

[Josonic]

When I host a server I'll put a warning in the description along the lines of "If you die more than once per season you will be kicked", it seems to keep out most of the riff raff and makes me feel less bad when I do have to kick out noobs. 

[Rellimarual]

Our server's description says that it's not for inexperienced players and there's a sign at spawn saying we won't help people, but if they can find the base on their own recognizance and respond to chat then they are welcome to take the stuff they need from the chests at the main base, which are coded by skins for "help yourself" and "ask first." We don't actually kick people who've just joined unless it's summer and they refuse to go into the caves. We don't use flingos so even them just walking around can be a threat. I lean toward just letting them die and learn from it, though.

This mostly works pretty well, but every so often a creep gets in. Some guy who was totally unresponsive to chat was rummaging through all the chests recently and as admin I used console to force him to drop items before kicking him. He'd take every single rock in the rock chest, like 6 stacks of 40, god only knows for what! I don't want to have to constantly roll back because of stuff like that, stuff that you might not even notice they've done it until it's too late to roll back that far.

The other thing noobs keep doing is trying to take Chester out of the grass gecko pen where we are using him to scare them and generate a steady grass supply. They take him out, leave the gate open and all the geckos get out. That is an instant kick.

[Josonic]

48 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

This mostly works pretty well, but every so often a creep gets in. Some guy who was totally unresponsive to chat was rummaging through all the chests recently and as admin I used console to force him to drop items before kicking him. He'd take every single rock in the rock chest, like 6 stacks of 40, god only knows for what! I don't want to have to constantly roll back because of stuff like that, stuff that you might not even notice they've done it until it's too late to roll back that far.

Why is it even a thing that we need to force someone to drop items before rollback? Rollback should change everything to how it was including player inventories. Really doesn't help griefing situations on platforms that don't have console commands as an option (ps4)

[Yuuko]

I agree with kicking players that don't know what they are doing, who join in bad seasons.  I think @KastorRegma is right that you should let them die first.  They may just leave.  If they stick around as a ghost, but ignore chat - then kick them.  If they chat and try to coordinate, you can judge based on the person.

However - I think this issue is something that Klei should consider as an area for improvement in the game.  DS always started you day one, and you were alone - so it could be more rude with the resources you were given and seasons could be cruel...

Often when I join a world after the first day, even if it's not winter - I immediately run into issues where much of the grass and twigs, and especially all of the flint is gone.  Sometimes I can't even put a torch together before night comes.  Then I see a game with only a few days before a bad season, or it's already in a bad season, and I feel I can't join because I would be ill equipped for whatever season it is...  This is compounded by the fact that - if I do join with a few days before a bad season - players kick me because I ask where base is...  Well either help me get to your base within 4 days, or accept the fact that I may die without flint to chop a tree and make a fire...

I think DST can make changes without just making the game easy.  They can take out or reduce the spawned flint, and reduce the twigs / grass in the world, but give every player some twigs / grass / flint (or just axe / torch / pickaxe) to start with.  They could also protect from hot / cold / wet for at least 2 days when you join a world with a new character.  Don't do it based on server logging, so you can't just log out / in to get free weather protection, but when a character is freshly made I think it's fair to give them 2 days before they get cold / hot / wet.

Then as players - we need to be a bit more forgiving when a player joins and asks where base is...  Because it can take up to 10 days to explore a DST world...  if there is less than 10 days before winter they may not find base.  Some people are nice and put in signs, but I think players should be a  bit less abrasive about the question "where is base?"

[Cyberboy2000]

7 hours ago, Josonic said:

Why is it even a thing that we need to force someone to drop items before rollback? Rollback should change everything to how it was including player inventories. Really doesn't help griefing situations on platforms that don't have console commands as an option (ps4)

The idea is to not have to use rollback, only kick.

[Rellimarual]

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Then as players - we need to be a bit more forgiving when a player joins and asks where base is...  Because it can take up to 10 days to explore a DST world...  if there is less than 10 days before winter they may not find base.  Some people are nice and put in signs, but I think players should be a  bit less abrasive about the question "where is base?"

That just isn't going to happen on my server because even a generic noob can be too much of a drain. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to run a server that's unpassworded but that prefers experienced players. We've done the best we can to mark it as such. Finding a way to survive until you find the base on your own is a good test of how competent and resourceful a player is. They can't help the lack of gold, though, so we do keep a science machine at the spawn. Last time I went down there, there was flint lying on the ground, and that's really all you need if you know what you're doing.

[Lumina]

6 hours ago, Shosuko said:

but when a character is freshly made I think it's fair to give them 2 days before they get cold / hot / wet.

I'm not really fan of the twig/grass on start, but some protection against cold/hot/wetness seems fair. Maybe just enough so you can see that it's cold with the little ice on the screen, but enough to not lose health, so you know you have to search for protection.

[GentlemanFridge]

If I'm perfectly honest, I find it a bit stupid to join a server as a newcomer when it says it's winter/summer or late autumn/spring.

That season indicator is there for a reason.

I do think that it's a bit unecessary to kick them, should they join and die soon after. Give 'em a fighting chance. If they start to nag about it, then I'll consider it.

[Mencken]

On 6/10/2017 at 9:09 AM, Arash70 said:

Well, since newcomers would have to burn stuff to survive in winter,

is it moral to kick them or not? 

what do you think?

would you think of it as "griefing" and kick them?

or you would just count it as survival and not?

No, unless they are burning entire forests.

[Endrew]

Honestly, I think it's better to be kicked immediately than to try to live in winter and just dying. It's always a pain when it's winter and a player joins and starts using up my saved resources. Even if the player is competant, there's not too much they can do confined to a base if there's not backup resources ready.

[FloomRide]

No, not really. Winter is fairly easy to survive in if you've just spawned, as long as you can find basic resources like flint, grass and twigs fast. Yes, players will have to burn stuff to survive, but "stuff" can be a number of things, like just logs on the ground for example. Because of this, I don't find it reasonably justified to kick players during winter. Kicking in the last days of autumn is even more inexcusable, as that's more than enough time to prepare.

However, summer is totally different. The only way to really survive the heat with basic gear is to just use a whirly fan and run around a tree. There's also the risk of said player spawning a wildfire, so it's completely understandable to kick a player during summer.