Against The Grain Overview

[Instant-Noodles]

1 hour ago, fimmatek said:

I'm  wondering abaut how ofter should be pay tributes to the And Lion, if we want to keep out summer safe? Enough once, or must every few days? Does the Ant Lion have some kind of "Pleasedness Meter" which depletes with time?...

1 hour ago, Electroely said:

It does have a "Mood" meter. I don't know how exactly does it function, but I think it goes to "rage" mode after 5 days from default mood (when summer starts)

The Antlion's rage functions based on a timer...

• On spawn, the timer is set to 4.2 days.
• Giving it a valid tribute extends the timer by:

  TRIBUTE VALUE x 0.33 Days

  Tribute Values
  - Rocks = 1
  - Beach Toy Trinket = 4
  - Other Trinkets = Gold Value / 3
  
  The timer can be extended to a maximum of 6 days.

• When the timer reaches 0, sinkholes and caveins are triggered.  Moreover, the timer is reset to 80% of the previous timer's initial value.  So, after one trigger, the new timer will be set to 4.2 x 0.8 = 3.36 days, after a second trigger, it will be set to 3.36 x 0.8 = 2.688 days, and so on.  However, the minimum the timer can be set to is 1 day.
• You can approximate the time remaining on the timer by the comment your character makes when you inspect the Antlion.  Each character has 3 different quotes based on the antlion's rage level.
  
  Rage Levels
  - Very Happy (1) = Timer has more than 5.7 days remaining
  - Normal (2) = Timer has 3.6 days to 5.7 days remaining
  - Unhappy (3) = Timer has less than 3.6 days remaining
  
  Character Quotes
  Spoiler

  Maxwell
  GENERIC = "Have you no pride?",
  VERYHAPPY = "We've placated it for now.",
  UNHAPPY = "It's going to wreak havoc on my world.",
  
  Webber
  GENERIC = "You're fuzzy. We like that.",
  VERYHAPPY = "It's always nice to have more bug friends.",
  UNHAPPY = "I think it's upset.",

  Wendy
  GENERIC = "Do you know any riddles?",
  VERYHAPPY = "The gifts made it happier...",
  UNHAPPY = "A deep rage brews within...",
  
  Wickerbottom
  GENERIC  = "Ah. You must be behind all the seismic activity.",
  VERYHAPPY = "It has been mollified with tributes.",
  UNHAPPY = "Panthera auropunctata is looking irritable.",

  Wigfrid
  GENERIC = "Tis the mighty lion!",
  VERYHAPPY = "The lion smiles upon us.",
  UNHAPPY = "We've incurred its wrath!",

  Willow
  GENERIC = "What do you want?!",
  VERYHAPPY = "You're in a good mood.",
  UNHAPPY = "There's gonna be tremors in our future.",

  Wilson
  GENERIC = "It wants something from me.",
  VERYHAPPY = "I think we're on good terms.",
  UNHAPPY = "It looks mad.",

  Wolfgang
  GENERIC = "Scary monster is friend?",
  VERYHAPPY = "Monster does not look hungry today.",
  UNHAPPY = "Monster is looking very scary!",

  Woodie
  GENERIC = "They grow'em big out here, eh?",
  VERYHAPPY = "It seems agreeable.",
  UNHAPPY = "That critter's in a real bad mood.",

  WX-78
  GENERIC = "IT'S BIG FOR AN ORGANIC",
  VERYHAPPY = "IT'S REPULSIVELY HAPPY",
  UNHAPPY = "VOLATILE ORGANIC EMOTIONS DETECTED",

[minespatch]

23 minutes ago, Instant-Noodles said:

Panthera auropunctata

There goes Wickerbottom giving latin roots for species.

[Destros09]

30 minutes ago, Instant-Noodles said:

GENERIC = "Scary monster is friend?",

As long as you give your friend buckets

[CaptainChaotica]

Huh. _Wow_.  Okay, if THAT'S the way it works..that's really obnoxious, because it just turned into another timed _chore_!  Turn on the fling-o-matic.  Check/harvest/replant the crops.  Cook food.  Get ready for hound attacks.  And now, go waaaaayyy out of your way (potentially_ to appease this stupid thing that seems to think it's God of the World, every few days.  UGH.

Even worse if you're like me and you usually--weirdly enough--spend summer on the _surface_!  GASP!  And what do I do up there?  Well, I wander around looking for non-withered/scorched resources to use and bring them (eventually) back to camp, bringing grass, nitre, a thermal stone and an umbrella with me. 

This means that sometimes my trip out might be far enough to where _I can't get back to the Antlion in time_.  Even if I based fairly near it!  And you guys all KNOW my freaked-out-ness about the caves.  Also--something that can destroy your base from AFAR, where there's no warning?  Ugh.  I like the idea of PART of this (the sandstorms and the gift system), but not how it works on a _timer_.  I hate to say this but...

If Antlion is gonna be like _this_...BRING BACK SINGLEPLAYER DRAGONFLY!  At least you can see/hear her coming!

(This is a beta.  You wanted feedback, to know what might need to be tweaked before it goes live?  Well.  Here ya go.)

EDIT:  I leave my world-size setting on default...can you even IMAGINE how bad this would be for people who have it on Huge?

...Notorious

[TemporaryMan]

Well, at least the return trip will be simple, provided you have a teleport thing at the oasis and your base.

Honestly, I'm surprised there isn't an option to fight it with a ten day respawn delay, as an option for people ready for a fight that don't want the hassle and don't want a large quantity of desert rocks.

[CaptainChaotica]

And the HUGE sanity drain will be a problem.  Not only in general, but like, I tend to play as Willow.

...the Unnerfed.

Meaning, I don't want to set fire to my base the second I get back there, every time!  (And even worse if anybody else joins my server as that character and they've never met singleplayer Willow/don't know there IS a difference at all...)

And yeah, the teleport thing is indeed exactly for this problem--the distance thing. STILL obnoxious, though--I'd rather not have another thing I have to chronically keep track of in my schedule.  This is Don't Starve, not some lethal, sadistic version of Animal Crossing!

All in all, I don't want to get _rid_ of the Antlion, just, completely disable it in the settings, 'cos it's new content, a new area, new mechanics, new character...I'd like to play with that a bit.  I just don't want it to work quite the way it does _now_.

I mean heck, I'm willing to go through the sandstorm WITHOUT goggles if it means that the Antlion only gets mad _when something actually happens to it_, rather than automatically over time.  Like, what if you have a pig follower with you, and it goes "YOU GO SMASH!" and punches it?  That's a legit reason to get mad!  But just "You haven't done anything for me lately"...

...well, okay, that's a cat.  Point.  But you know what I mean.  : P

Maybe nerf the ability to get stuff a bit, and it has stricter tribute standards as to what it'll even accept..but it doesn't get mad on a timer? Maybe?  I dunno.

Also tone down the sanity drain from teleporting a bit 'cos GOOD GOD.  Wormholes are just automatically there in the ground for free, and _they_ only take 15 points!

...Notorious

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

And the HUGE sanity drain will be a problem.  Not only in general, but like, I tend to play as Willow.

...the Unnerfed.

Meaning, I don't want to set fire to my base the second I get back there, every time!  (And even worse if anybody else joins my server as that character and they've never met singleplayer Willow/don't know there IS a difference at all...)

And yeah, the teleport thing is indeed exactly for this problem--the distance thing. STILL obnoxious, though--I'd rather not have another thing I have to chronically keep track of in my schedule.  This is Don't Starve, not some lethal, sadistic version of Animal Crossing!

All in all, I don't want to get _rid_ of the Antlion, just, completely disable it in the settings, 'cos it's new content, a new area, new mechanics, new character...I'd like to play with that a bit.  I just don't want it to work quite the way it does _now_.

I mean heck, I'm willing to go through the sandstorm WITHOUT goggles if it means that the Antlion only gets mad _when something actually happens to it_, rather than automatically over time.  Like, what if you have a pig follower with you, and it goes "YOU GO SMASH!" and punches it?  That's a legit reason to get mad!  But just "You haven't done anything for me lately"...

...well, okay, that's a cat.  Point.  But you know what I mean.  : P

Maybe nerf the ability to get stuff a bit, and it has stricter tribute standards as to what it'll even accept..but it doesn't get mad on a timer? Maybe?  I dunno.

Also tone down the sanity drain from teleporting a bit 'cos GOOD GOD.  Wormholes are just automatically there in the ground for free, and _they_ only take 15 points!

...Notorious

Well you only have to deal with it in the summer and if you are playing as DS willow then I assume you would carry green caps with you I guess your just going to have to deal with it.

 

4 hours ago, TemporaryMan said:

y, as an option for people ready for a fight that don't want the hassle and don't want a large quantity of desert rocks.

Oh I can see that oh a dungeon worm or a quacken like boss fight

[ShadowDuelist]

3 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Huh. _Wow_.  Okay, if THAT'S the way it works..that's really obnoxious, because it just turned into another timed _chore_!  Turn on the fling-o-matic.  Check/harvest/replant the crops.  Cook food.  Get ready for hound attacks.  And now, go waaaaayyy out of your way (potentially_ to appease this stupid thing that seems to think it's God of the World, every few days.  UGH.

Even worse if you're like me and you usually--weirdly enough--spend summer on the _surface_!  GASP!  And what do I do up there?  Well, I wander around looking for non-withered/scorched resources to use and bring them (eventually) back to camp, bringing grass, nitre, a thermal stone and an umbrella with me. 

This means that sometimes my trip out might be far enough to where _I can't get back to the Antlion in time_.  Even if I based fairly near it!  And you guys all KNOW my freaked-out-ness about the caves.  Also--something that can destroy your base from AFAR, where there's no warning?  Ugh.  I like the idea of PART of this (the sandstorms and the gift system), but not how it works on a _timer_.  I hate to say this but...

If Antlion is gonna be like _this_...BRING BACK SINGLEPLAYER DRAGONFLY!  At least you can see/hear her coming!

(This is a beta.  You wanted feedback, to know what might need to be tweaked before it goes live?  Well.  Here ya go.)

EDIT:  I leave my world-size setting on default...can you even IMAGINE how bad this would be for people who have it on Huge?

...Notorious

It's exactly what I was thinking, I tend to live in caves and sometimes pass whole seasons down there building and doing stuff, now I will have to run outside every 3-4 days, all summer long, to give him stuff.

A seasonal monster is more fun, considering that you have the choice to make it spawn somewhere safe for your base, and choose, to not fight him/her. Just a one minute trip far away, see himSpawn and leave him alone. Or kill it, which does not take much time for seasonal monsters if the party is prepared enough. On the other hand, the antlion is the first real threat you can't somehow Ignore (or fight) and that will need your full dedication for a season. Sounds obnoxious in my book.

I'd increase his max "happiness" timer to be able to cover the full season, instead of just 6 days, so if you prepare with enough trinkets through the year, you have the choice to appease him entirely in just one yearly tribute trip.

We can always also offer an anual mime sacrifice if necessary, of course.

 

[Silxer]

10 hours ago, Electroely said:

Those boulders can also be carried and moved to be used as walls, if placed closed enough to each other. So that's one good thing that comes out of letting the Antlion get mad c:<

I guess that's just another reason to stay in the caves during the summer season then (unless you want to go to the surface to get the new items and trinkets from the oasis).

Also, I assume that if you happen to be playing solo and you are in a cave when the cave-in happens I assume no sinkholes will appear above ground (since there's no other players in the area)?

[CaptainChaotica]

That's a good question...

Also, ShadowDuelist, I like your idea...except for the mime sacrifice.  Everybody knows those things taste terrible anyway. 

...Notorious

[NeddoFreddo]

9 hours ago, Instant-Noodles said:

UNHAPPY = "Panthera auropunctata is looking irritable.",

I love Wickerbottom's quotes.

Apparently 'Panthera' is a genus of large cats including lions, tigers, etc.

And 'Auropuncta' is the term for ants, so that means Wickerbottom refers to our Antlion as an ant in the lion genus.

[Gundorf]

11 hours ago, Instant-Noodles said:

UNHAPPY = "It's going to wreak havoc on my world.",

This is why i love Maxwell, playing DST solo makes this quote about MY world even better.

[Electroely]

6 hours ago, Silxer said:

Also, I assume that if you happen to be playing solo and you are in a cave when the cave-in happens I assume no sinkholes will appear above ground (since there's no other players in the area)?

Yep. The sinkholes and cave-ins target players. While I'm not 100% sure (I am NOT waiting another hour to test it again) Seems that 2 sinkholes spawned when I had 2 players (both were on both players) and the cave-in only surrounded me, and didn't for go the ice flingomatic or the alchemy engine. My guess would be these events target the player, not structures.

[Myself49]

1 hour ago, Electroely said:

(I am NOT waiting another hour to test it again)

You could just use the LongUpdate(x) command to fast forward to summer I think. 480 for one day.

[Electroely]

1 hour ago, Myself49 said:

You could just use the LongUpdate(x) command to fast forward to summer I think. 480 for one day.

I've set it to summer using the season change command. The problem is waiting for the antlion's timer to hit 0.

[Myself49]

37 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I've set it to summer using the season change command. The problem is waiting for the antlion's timer to hit 0.

LongUpdate would help with that because it is basically the game time moving superfast. Trees grow and all. LongUpdate to summer and then (1920) should go right before enrage.

[CaptainChaotica]

And, here's another question...

What if you haven't even FOUND the Antlion's desert by the time you hit the first summer?  Now, this may not sound like a very likely occurrence, but what if you randomise the seasons, and summer creeps up on you real fast? Like what just exactly happened in my game?

Is the Antlion's timer still on even if you've never _met_ them?  Seriously, I have no idea.

...Notorious

[MrDeepDarkmind]

So yeah what about the boulders? 

[Electroely]

1 hour ago, CaptainChaotica said:

And, here's another question...

What if you haven't even FOUND the Antlion's desert by the time you hit the first summer?  Now, this may not sound like a very likely occurrence, but what if you randomise the seasons, and summer creeps up on you real fast? Like what just exactly happened in my game?

Is the Antlion's timer still on even if you've never _met_ them?  Seriously, I have no idea.

...Notorious

Yeah, the Antlion still rages even if you never met it.

1 hour ago, MrDeepDarkmind said:

So yeah what about the boulders? 

The boulders can be carried just like those suspicious marbles. You can move them right next to each other to make a wall which the mobs' pathfinding doesn't detect and thus will not try to break or find a way around. If that's what you're asking.

[Sicko Hog]

9 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

but what if you randomise the seasons, and summer creeps up on you real fast? Like what just exactly happened in my game?\\

Klei shouldn't have to balance features around randomized season lengths. You wouldn't expect them to make winter warmer since not everybody can find beefalo when autumn's set to short, after all.

[CaptainChaotica]

Oh, for...people play with all different lengths of seasons!  Sometimes they --START-- in summer, ever think of that?  And with the map being randomly generated and it being random chance what parts of it you happen to explore first, even those who start in Autumn with standard season lengths might not find it in time!  Especially if they're playing alone, or keep having to stay near base to upkeep it and don't have much _time_ to explore, or...

It's badly.  Written.  I am NOT asking them to change it just for _me_.  I am asking them to change something that does not, in general, make SENSE!  I am NOT an effing special snowflake, nor am I trying to be!  Also, I'm not the only one who does this?  Or randomises their starting season?  And it's quite possible to keep warm in winter without finding beefalo; they're not an absolute necessity.  You can get by with rabbit earmuffs, a thermal stone, and carrying campfire materials with you.  I've done it.  Finding the beefalo by a certain date is not a dead necessity.  Finding the Antlion in time _is_.  If you don't find the beefalo in time, the beefalo. Do not.  KILL you!

Although yes, I'll be damned if I'll go back to only the standard, boring, predictable season lengths, always and forever, just because of THIS.  Other people shouldn't have to completely change their playstyle either.  And I can't change it now even if I wanted to _because it's a world-gen option and I'd have to erase everything on purpose_.

And no, "just turn it off, then!" isn't the right answer.  It's new content.  We _want_ to see it. We just don't want it to insta-kill us from afar with _no chance at all_!  I wanna see the sandstorm and whatnot, I...just don't want to die because of something I could NOT have done anything about!  Hounds come without your doing anything.  _But you can hear them coming and put on armour_.  The giants come on their own, and wreck your stuff.  But again, you can hear them and prepare.  Winter and summer just happen unless you turn them off, but you can make fires and wear season-appropriate clothing!  Frog rain?  Make traps and stand among them!  THIS is a Force of Nature that can get you no matter WHERE you are, _without any chance to fight it_.

Last but not least...what about people who don't even _know_ about this whole thing?!  More casual players, people who play it just for fun, who don't post on this forum or read all the update notes?  What if they don't even know that there _is_ this thing out in the desert that can potentially kill them/wreck their camp within only a few days after summer starts, let alone what to do about it? 

This.  HAS.  To be changed.   The way it is now just _does not work_.  I reiterate : The whole point of a beta is to find out what needs to be tweaked before it goes live. Well, we just found a part that needs itself a tweakin'.

Also, for god's sake, STOP trying to make people feel lesser or embarrassed or stupid because they have a problem with the game _you_ don't happen to, okay?  Okay.

...Notorious

[Sicko Hog]

Quote

Oh, for...people play with all different lengths of seasons!  Sometimes they --START-- in summer, ever think of that?

But summer's never been balanced for a starting season, if you set the starting season to summer then you should be prepared for a challenge.

Quote

 And with the map being randomly generated and it being random chance what parts of it you happen to explore first, even those who start in Autumn with standard season lengths might not find it in time!  Especially if they're playing alone, or keep having to stay near base to upkeep it and don't have much _time_ to explore, or...

You can very easily explore an outline of the map during the first autumn if you keep moving, if you can't manage to find the antlion by day 57 then that's your problem, not the game's.

Quote

It's badly.  Written.  I am NOT asking them to change it just for _me_.  I am asking them to change something that does not, in general, make SENSE!  I am NOT an effing special snowflake, nor am I trying to be! Also, I'm not the only one who does this?  Or randomises their starting season? 

I never said that this problem only applies to you, just that the game doesn't need to be balanced around non-default world settings since the game's always been balanced around the default world settings. If I set clockworks to lots I can't complain that my world's filled with clockworks.

Quote

Finding the beefalo by a certain date is not a dead necessity.  Finding the Antlion in time _is_.  If you don't find the beefalo in time, the beefalo. Do not.  KILL you!  Your metaphor does not work.

The Beefalo obviously don't kill you, the cold does. Beefalo hats are the best solution to surviving winter just like appeasing the Antlion is, but they both have other ways around them.

Quote

Although yes, I'll be damned if I'll go back to only the standard, boring, predictable season lengths, always and forever, just because of THIS.  Other people shouldn't have to completely change their playstyle either.

And you don't have to, you just have to find a way around the sinkholes. Figure out how long it takes for the antlion to get mad (there was a post somewhere on the forums about that) and start running a few screens away from your base with some healing items whenever she's about to make sinkholes. 57 days is more than enough time to prepare healing salves.

Quote

And no, "just turn it off, then!" isn't the right answer.

I never said to turn it off? I keep my world settings on default all the time.

Quote

Last but not least...what about people who don't even _know_ about this whole thing?!  More casual players, people who play it just for fun, who don't post on this forum or read all the update notes?  What if they don't even know that there _is_ this thing out in the desert that can potentially kill them/wreck their camp within only a few days, let alone what to do about it? 

Isn't that what the game's about though? The first time Deerclops wrecks your base, the first time you wander into the Dragonfly arena, the first time you realize "hey, these hound waves are getting bigger and bigger"? Getting killed over and over in different ways, until eventually you conquer the forces of nature and can survive without effort?

The game's always been marketed as an "uncompromising wilderness survival game".

Quote

Also, for god's sake, STOP trying to make people feel lesser or embarrassed or stupid because they have a problem with the game _you_ don't happen to, okay?  Okay.

Well that was needlessly aggressive and out of nowhere.

[KoreanWaffles]

So you said that two deserts always spawned and I was going to comment that the Oasis Desert only has a 6/11 chance of spawning, as it is an optional task for the world to generate, but then I checked the tasks and noticed that they changed.

Each biome is classified as a task. Optional tasks have only a chance of generating, and are chosen randomly.
 

Default Tasks

Spoiler

        location = "forest",
		tasks = {
			"Make a pick",
			"Dig that rock",
			"Great Plains",
			"Squeltch",
			"Beeeees!",
			"Speak to the king",
			"Forest hunters",
			"Badlands",
			"For a nice walk",
		},
		numoptionaltasks = 6,
		optionaltasks = {
			"Befriend the pigs",
			"Kill the spiders",
			"Killer bees!",
			"Make a Beehat",
			"The hunters",
			"Magic meadow",
			"Frogs and bugs",
			"Oasis",
			"Mole Colony Deciduous",
			"Mole Colony Rocks",
			"MooseBreedingTask",
		},

 

ANR Tasks

Spoiler

        location = "forest",
		tasks = {
			"Make a pick",
			"Dig that rock",
			"Great Plains",
			"Squeltch",
			"Beeeees!",
			"Speak to the king",
			"Forest hunters",
			--"Badlands",
			"BadlandsANR",
			"For a nice walk",
			"Lightning Bluff",
		},
		numoptionaltasks = 5,
		optionaltasks = {
			"Befriend the pigs",
			"Kill the spiders",
			"Killer bees!",
			"Make a Beehat",
			--"Oasis",
			"The hunters",
			"Magic meadow",
			"Frogs and bugs",
			"Mole Colony Deciduous",
			"Mole Colony Rocks",
			"MooseBreedingTask",
		},

 

In lua coding, putting -- before a line tells the program to ignore the code (this is useful is typing notes without messing up the code). As you can see, in the ANR tasks, Badlands and Oasis are disabled. Badlands is the desert which contains Dragonfly, and Oasis is the desert which contains the oasis biome within the desert (contains ponds, birchtrees, and catcoons). Two new tasks have appeared,  BadlandsANR, and Lightning Bluff which have taken the places of Badlands and Oasis. Notice that Lightning Bluff is guaranteed to spawn, and the optional tasks have lowered from 6 to 5 to compensate. After doing a bit of testing, I've figured that BadlandsANR is the Dragonfly desert, and Lightning Bluff is the Oasis desert with the Antlion. The only thing I'm still not sure about is what's the difference between BadlandsANR and the normal Badlands.
 

[Sinister_Fang]

13 minutes ago, KoreanWaffles said:

So you said that two deserts always spawned and I was going to comment that the Oasis Desert only has a 6/11 chance of spawning, as it is an optional task for the world to generate, but then I checked the tasks and noticed that they changed.

They must have changed that long ago because I've seen a lot of worlds in DST and I don't seem to recall any of them only having a single desert.

[maxiaogua]

Does Antlion's respawn reset the timer? If so I guess feeding her to maximum for just two times (5th day early in the morning and 11th day) is enough for each summer.