Against The Grain Overview

[CaptainChaotica]

Okay, I want to apologise a bit for freaking out...it seems I may have misunderstood a couple things here.  I watched another video about the new update on YouTube, and it seems that although the Antlion's wrath can strike at any time, it..strikes _only_ in the desert?  You see, I was half-imagining the ground just opening up beneath me all of a sudden while gathering berries in a meadow! 

I mean, the icon for the cave-in looks deserty/rocky, buuuuuttt...what threw me was how it can get you in the caves.  The cave entrances can be in LOTS of different biomes.  So, if somebody happened to be right above you on the surface when a cave-in got you underground, would they see a hole suddenly appear in non-desert terrain...?

Also, I was picturing something way more drastic:  a crumbly looking area that if you put weight on it, would collapse into a full-blown hole and there you go, bye-bye.  Or things you built on it would sink into the earth.  I dunno why, that's just...what I was seeing...again, probably because of the connection with the underground.  (Which you don't just JUMP into.  For a reason.)

Anyway, when I found out that the Antlion's wrath can get you _even if you've never met the bloody thing_, it really freaked me out.  In my last game, after a very short winter, it suddenly went POOF! right to summer. (and here I thought the fact that the trees were turning green meant spring, ha ha silly me)  Like, BANG!  Summer lighting over ice.*  And I was like, "Oh, (blank)!  Um, um, okay, I got this, um, I gotta go to the rockland and get nitre, and mine these still FULL-SIZED mini-glaciers for ice, and get some rocks and gold to make an endothermic firepit at camp, and maybe get enough stuff to make one at spawn too for summer joiners and OH (BLEEP) THE ANTLION.  I HAVEN'T EVEN _SEEN_ A DESERT YET!  WHAT DO I DO?!"

So then I was wandering around all paranoid, wondering when the ground was going to Get Me when I least suspected it, while still trying to just basically live and take care of other summer-specific chores, and it was not a fun feeling.  And after several bad maps in a row, I'm loathe to lose this one--even if the planet it's on does seem to be bizarrely slingshotting around its own sun--I've got a (BIG) non-spider-infested rockland and conveniently-located beefalo, Day 1!  That's not something you just throw away. 

So...yeah. A look into the craziness that is the mind of Captain Chaotica.  But now that I know a bit more about what's going on, I guess I'll...just stay out of deserts and/or caves for the season.

...Notorious

*But, that's precisely _why_ I randomise the seasons--to get surprises like this!  Sometimes ya get good changes and sometimes...ya get this.  And I wouldn't have it any other way.

[ExtollerOfTrolls]

Wendy's line for the beach toy:

ANTLIONTRINKET = "If only I could kick it."

I snickered at that.

[CaptainChaotica]

Ow.  (shakes head)  I actually kind of _like_ puns, but...

And, I just found out I was wrong AGAIN, and I take back part of what I took back:  The Antlion _can_ get you anywhere--it's just not as scary as I was picturing.  But still pretty bad. 

I reiterate:  Something in a great big map who's finding in time depends completely on luck, in a game where people still sometimes play by themselves with nobody else to help them explore, SHOULD NOT.  HAVE A _TIMER_!!  Or, it should be way longer.  Or, the Antlion shouldn't be mad until you actively DO something to _make_ it mad.  IN.  PERSON.  Or, the range of its wrath should not be able to follow you _everywhere_, no matter how far away you are.

Even for those who play on totally default settings (then...why are the season-length settings _there_?), have a loyal group of friends and can ALWAYS, consistently, find the Antlion's desert before summer...even _they_ agree that making something into a chore you have to attend to every few days is really freaking.  Like I said, this is Don't Starve, not some sadistic version of Animal Crossing!--we shouldn't have to attend to characters' feelings in realtime to keep them from killing us moving out.

Look, Klei, I totally get what you were probably thinking when you made it this way:  "Everything in A New Reign is _optional_!  I want bosses that go to YOU!  I want something that's an _immediate_ threat, not just a bonus raid battle!"  So, you made something non-optional.  I get that.  And, "Summer needs to be more interesting!"  I abree.

THIS, however, was...not the way to do it.  On a (short!) timer + infinite range + triggered _off-screen_ from you doing NOTHING...um...yeah.  That's 100% problem.  It's like being blown up by a bomb in another _town_.  How were you supposed to defuse that in time?  When other things change because of a background timer in this game--such as a spider nest growing to the next stage--the spider-queen doesn't insta-teleport to you from across the world and bite your face off!

Not everybody takes the same amount of time to get to summer.  Not everybody explores the map in the correct direction by a certain date.  Not everybody has their map the same _size_, either, for that matter.

I get what you were trying to do but...this only works for lucky people/those who only ever start in fall with standard season lengths.  Too many people will be totally helpless--and also blameless.  You can light a fire against the ever-present Charlie.  You can hear the hounds and giants coming.  You can avoid stepping on spider webs.  THIS has absolutely nothing you can do and it can get you anywhere at all.  Even in the caves, which is a freaking seperate shard!  Everything else in the game gives you a chance--this doesn't.  If you don't magically HAPPEN to explore exactly the right direction in time, you get hurt or killed, and/or your base ruined. 

I think the way this is now it's _seriously_ flawed, and needs a lot of tuning. At the very least, slow down the timer or shrink the range.  Or maybe a world-gen setting where people can tweak it themselves!  (Actually, THAT would be kind of awesome.)

...Notorious

[ClumsyPenny]

9 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Even for those who play on totally default settings (then...why are the season-length settings _there_?), have a loyal group of friends and can ALWAYS, consistently, find the Antlion's desert before summer...even _they_ agree that making something into a chore you have to attend to every few days is really freaking.  Like I said, this is Don't Starve, not some sadistic version of Animal Crossing!--we shouldn't have to attend to characters' feelings in realtime to keep them from killing us moving out.

The antlion doesn't spawn immediately during summer, it takes about 2 days. Her initial timer is 4.2 days, her max timer is 6 days. Summer lasts 15 days. This means that you only need 1 player to feed the antlion enough items to max her timer on the 6th and 12th day of summer.

9 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I think the way this is now it's _seriously_ flawed, and needs a lot of tuning. At the very least, slow down the timer or shrink the range.  Or maybe a world-gen setting where people can tweak it themselves!  (Actually, THAT would be kind of awesome.)

It's there already, you could have bothered to check before posting a complaint.

[RobertoRezende]

1 hour ago, Hobgoblino said:

This means that you only need 1 player to feed the antlion on the 6th and 12th day of summer.

Hey, Hob! So this is Antlion´s timer? Only one trinket at day 6 and 12 of summer? Any kind of trinket will do it? Like frizzled wires... Best regards to you, man!

[ClumsyPenny]

3 minutes ago, RobertoRezende said:

Hey, Hob! So this is Antlion´s timer? Only one trinket at day 6 and 12 of summer? Any kind of trinket will do it? Like frizzled wires... Best regards to you, man!

Hey roberto. No, one trinket is not enough, what I'm talking about is feeding the antlion until she's satisfied, so you need more than that. See this comment for more information: 

 

[Sicko Hog]

Quote

Not everybody explores the map in the correct direction by a certain date.

If you can't manage to find one of the two huge deserts by day 57 (the default starting day for summer) then that's your fault. The game's full of things that kill you if you don't prepare for them: Hounds, giants, seasons, vargs, and now the antlion.

Quote

Something in a great big map who's finding in time depends completely on luck

Okay this part really bothers me. Exploring does not depend on luck, there are certain methods like following the border of the ocean that let you reliably find every important biome, including the antlion's desert, before it even starts getting cold.

11 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Not everybody takes the same amount of time to get to summer ...  Not everybody has their map the same _size_, either, for that matter.

I don't get why you don't understand that if you change the world settings then the game won't be balanced. They've obviously put lots of work into designing the game: Making sure there's the right amount of resources, the right distance between biomes, making sure seasons are the right length. So obviously if you mess around with those world settings then that balance is going to go away: There's going to be more/not enough of some resources, important biomes are going to be farther away, and the seasons are going to be all over the place.

If you change your world settings you should be prepared for a challenge. Set your seasons so that summer might come sooner? You should prepare for summer sooner. Set your world size to huge? You should focus more time on exploring.

[RobertoRezende]

17 minutes ago, Hobgoblino said:

Hey roberto. No, one trinket is not enough, what I'm talking about is feeding the antlion until she's satisfied, so you need more than that. See this comment for more information: 

Thanks a lot, man!

I think I got it.

The best strategy (less time consuming) would be to give the beast 18,18 worth of tribute value based on these values:

Tribute Values
- Rocks = 1
- Beach Toy Trinket = 4
- Other Trinkets = Gold Value / 3

Maybe then just give him 19 rocks on the 6th and 12th day of every summer once you have all the recipes you want.

 

[minespatch]

7 hours ago, Hobgoblino said:

Praise to da kitteh!

[LordChicken]

How i would change the update, 2 possible Paths:

 

Path 1

-The summer ponds item drop pool is increased, it can also drop stuff like gears, blueprints, used weapons and clothes, eels, telltale hearths and more...

-The Antlion can drop more items, like Gems and Thelucite (Chance is quite low however), also more exclusive rare antlion blueprints...

 

Path 2

-Antlion rages every 3 days of summer

-Antlion becomes a boss and it isn't no longer an entity like pig king

-There are 2 ways to stop the rages permanently:

1) Go to the desert and kill the Antlion

2) Make at least 4 players die near the Antlion ( a fight however must be engaged with her), if this happens antlion will remain calm for the rest of the summer and the following thing won't happen

-In the last days of summer Antlion comes to you and will try to kill you!

-Antlion drops are very good, like the blueprint for the teleporter ( desert stone can now be fished from the pond), but also some items like the antlion claw to make cool weapons ( something that create and earthquake or stuff), meat and maybe some gems.

 

I think both paths should also include some recipe for succulents, at the moment they are pretty useless...

[Destros09]

3 minutes ago, LordChicken said:

telltale heart

And make it so whenever you get one it takes 70 max health from maxwell

[LordChicken]

13 minutes ago, Destros09 said:

And make it so whenever you get one it takes 70 max health from maxwell

Lol why? The heart itself doesn't take health from you, it's crafting it that does that!

Spoiler

I get it's a joke, but still poor maxwell why him D:

 

[maxiaogua]

12 hours ago, Hobgoblino said:

The antlion doesn't spawn immediately during summer, it takes about 2 days. Her initial timer is 4.2 days, her max timer is 6 days. Summer lasts 15 days. This means that you only need 1 player to feed the antlion enough items to max her timer on the 6th and 12th day of summer.

I don't think it takes about 2 days for Antlion to spawn everytime. Antlion spawns sometime after the summer rain stops, it depends on how long the rain lasts. If there is no rain in the first days of summer, Antlion should spawn immediately when summer starts.

Antilion doesn't seem to spawn right after the rain, it takes some time. I did some tests and still can't figure out how long the delay is.

[Footman Crouch]

From what i saw, the antlion is a pretty good system for summer because at day 57 i kinda don't have anything to do other than to gather fuel for ice fling-o-matic, and it get boring really fast compare to other season especially with the lack of Dragonfly roaming. So yeah, pretty good additions if you ask me.

Do the antlion always spawn near the oasis or random thou?

[Sicko Hog]

They should add an item that creates rain* like the dripple pipes from Shipwrecked. They probably couldn't use the exact item since SW was co-developed by capy, but they could make a new one. Maybe add it to ancient tab? That way it attracts more players to the ruins, and makes summer more bearable when you get better at the game, instead of it sucking no matter your skill level.

*Technically the telelocator staff does but it's expensive and throws you some random place on the map when you use it.

[Electroely]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:31 AM, DarithD said:

From what i saw, the antlion is a pretty good system for summer because at day 57 i kinda don't have anything to do other than to gather fuel for ice fling-o-matic, and it get boring really fast compare to other season especially with the lack of Dragonfly roaming. So yeah, pretty good additions if you ask me.

Do the antlion always spawn near the oasis or random thou?

Antlion always spawns in the same desert you find the oasis in.

[CaptainChaotica]

Well, I feel kinda dumb that I didn't think of this before--probably everybody else did--but if you're like me and your damn Antlion won't get off your case even before you've found the correct desert, let alone met it (oy)...as soon as your character starts saying something about the ground shaking/breaking, _put on your armour_!  It did cut down the damage a lot.

...however, it also took a good chunk out of my logsuit.  I think it was near 90% and after the three sinkholes all exactly, unerringly hit me, it was down to 55%?  Yikes.  Keep that in mind--your armour should be at over 50%, just to be on the safe side, before the sinkholes happen.  (Well, I mean, you should have good defense on you at all times in case of sudden...well, just about anything, knowing this game.)

The really obnoxious thing? The last batch of sinkholes happened while I was ALREADY ON MY WAY THERE to give the damn thing more tribute!  If your desert is a long walk away, this is really a pain in the arse.  Even after I _found_ the Antlion I couldn't feed it in time!  (And this includes wearing the desert goggles to get there faster through the sandstorm.)

Unfortunately you can't change world-gen options midstream, so if I want to keep my lovely convenient beefalo and beautiful huge _safe_ rockland, I'll have to just live with the current settings until I truly perma-die...

(And then, thank GOD, it was fall.  No sign of the Bearger; I think Charlie might be taking pity on me after _that_ summer...or maybe I just don't have any good food around for him to loot.  : P)

...Notorious

[Palecwsmalec1]

2 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Well, I feel kinda dumb that I didn't think of this before--probably everybody else did--but if you're like me and your damn Antlion won't get off your case even before you've found the correct desert, let alone met it (oy)...as soon as your character starts saying something about the ground shaking/breaking, _put on your armour_!  It did cut down the damage a lot.

...however, it also took a good chunk out of my logsuit.  I think it was near 90% and after the three sinkholes all exactly, unerringly hit me, it was down to 55%?  Yikes.  Keep that in mind--your armour should be at over 50%, just to be on the safe side, before the sinkholes happen.  (Well, I mean, you should have good defense on you at all times in case of sudden...well, just about anything, knowing this game.)

 

Are sinkholes really that hard to avoid to you, or was there a patch? i can easily just outrun them. If the ground starts shaking, put on armor and keep moving, both of these things help a lot.

[Myself49]

On 8. 2. 2017 at 11:38 AM, JellyUltra said:

They should add an item that creates rain* like the dripple pipes from Shipwrecked. They probably couldn't use the exact item since SW was co-developed by capy, but they could make a new one. Maybe add it to ancient tab? That way it attracts more players to the ruins, and makes summer more bearable when you get better at the game, instead of it sucking no matter your skill level.

*Technically the telelocator staff does but it's expensive and throws you some random place on the map when you use it.

You can always just teleport a bird or something. Just that the telelocator doesn't ALWAYS trigger the rain.

[CaptainChaotica]

Yes.  And I'm not playing an unusually slow character.  I keep moving, at normal speed, and they always get me. Whether I run or stand still, AND, they follow me when I change directions!  A walking cane _might_ help, but I don't have one so it'll be a while before I can test that out, myself.  No, it's not lag--this is on my own server.

If YOU can avoid them...I sure wish I could figure out your secret!  I swear...I have changed directions, I have run for my life, nothing works. There's wiggly three-sinkhole-in-a-row patterns in several different places in my world now (well, the earliest ones might've healed, I dunno), and every time at LEAST two of them have hurt me. 

(Getting a walking cane might be interesting--with my random seasons, this world ended up with a practically blink-and-you'll-miss-it winter.  I'd have to find a walrus camp ahead of time and kind of set up nearby-ish on the last day of fall, or something.)

...Notorious