How Skins Could've Been "Innocent" and Trade Inn Discussion

[Fidooop]

2 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

That's like saying money isn't worth anything because everyone has money.

That's called inflation... That's a real thing!

[leonseye]

4 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

Okay woah woah woah... skins are not meant for making you feel excited about "rarity" or how expensive or "worth" your items are... they're meant to compliment the style and characters with which you play the game. Even if everyone had elegant items (which is still highly unlikely; the idea he proposed would still have a distribution inequality, just a moderate and fairer one) that doesn't mean that elegant items wouldn't be nice anymore. That's like saying money isn't worth anything because everyone has money. Or are you saying that people don't deserve to have a fair amount of that either? 

Am I supposed to queue the bipartisan debate between a free market economy w/out oversight vs a more communistic approach where everyone has access to a base level of needs at the expense of upward mobility now?  <.<

It feels like I am...

[thegreatmanagement]

Just now, leonseye said:

Am I supposed to queue the bipartisan debate between a free market economy w/out oversight vs a more communistic approach where everyone has access to a base level of needs at the expense of upward mobility now?  <.<

It feels like I am...

How does that limit upward mobility though? I didn't even say anything about that what o-o Fair can be interpreted in many ways really 

[leonseye]

1 minute ago, thegreatmanagement said:

How does that limit upward mobility though? I didn't even say anything about that what o-o Fair can be interpreted in many ways really 

I was honestly being facetious, it's not really important to the discussion at hand, but seemed relevant to the slippery slope that you were starting to talk about.  : )

The truth is that I believe it is important for many people for the rare items to actually feel rare and special.  Not everyone feels this way, of course, but I think it's also a sensation that the developers would like to keep intact.

People are collecting skins for several different reasons, and I don't think that it's prudent to outright dismiss what some may feel is their reason for wanting them in favor of your own (I mean "you" subjectively here, not you personally : P) simply because you may not understand or acknowledge their reasoning.

[JoeW]

Hey everybody, please make sure that you keep your comments from getting personal. I feel like many of the recent comments are more toward personal arguments than constructive conversation. Please be sure that you are discussing the topic and not your thoughts about the person and their views. 

[thegreatmanagement]

Just now, leonseye said:

I was honestly being facetious, it's not really important to the discussion at hand, but seemed relevant to the slippery slope that you were starting to talk about.  : )

The truth is that I believe it is important for many people for the rare items to actually feel rare and special.  Not everyone feels this way, of course, but I think it's also a sensation that the developers would like to keep intact.

People are collecting skins for several different reasons, and I don't think that it's prudent to outright dismiss what some may feel is their reason for wanting them in favor of your own (I mean "you" subjectively here, not you personally : P) simply because you may not understand or acknowledge their reasoning.

I agree they should feel rare. That's the point of the name of course lol. But how rare do you want them to be? Soul selling rare? In my opinion there is a such thing as too rare, and what the market might do could be just that. 

As to why people collect skins, that's true - their business is their business. 

[leonseye]

17 minutes ago, thegreatmanagement said:

I agree they should feel rare. That's the point of the name of course lol. But how rare do you want them to be? Soul selling rare? In my opinion there is a such thing as too rare, and what the market might do could be just that. 

As to why people collect skins, that's true - their business is their business. 

Well, that's a hard question to answer w/out it being subjective, lol.  I can really only answer this from a personal standpoint, and I would honestly prefer to take a more macro view of the situation than a micro one.

I'm already a have-not, as I've mentioned a few times in the past, so it would be a natural inclination for me to back a system that would help my own plight.  But I don't know that would actually be what's best for the game and community, y'know?

So looking at it from a broader perspective, I feel that adding more people to the mix, each receiving more drops and offering more trades may help to alleviate some of the issues of rarity that we are having currently.  

A Wigfrid GoH (yes, I like this example lol) is a rare item right now, but the only people trading them are the small subsect of players that:

1) Play DST and post on the forums

2) Are interested in the hassle of trading in forums for extremely niche currencies such as more skins or TF2 keys

3) And are not content to simply play the game itself for FREE drops

That's a pretty narrow demographic when compared to the entirety of the DST player base, all things considered.

I think that the hope here is that by widening that demographic by removing the limitations of both #1 and #2, there would be a larger influx of those rare items to combat the inflation.  Certainly they will still be more expensive than lower tier items, but the seller's market would also need to compete w/ each other in order to actually sell their items.

Direct competition is the general factor that helps to drive prices down.  For people who care about real world examples, oil was pretty recently trading at very high prices until OPEC decided to release more to the world in efforts to drive the American oil industry out of business.. as a result, we are all "enjoying" low gas prices due to their competition.

We do not suddenly have MORE oil in the world, it is just as rare and even more so as before, as it's a finite resource, and yet prices still drop due to this jostling of competition in the oil economy.  Okay, enough of that real world stuff.  Blech.

In much the same fashion, I believe that adding more direct competition amongst sellers themselves by removing some of the current limitations to the trading ecosystem would be a major factor in keeping the prices for rare items from becoming too exorbitant.

Sure, Ralphie Yoyo might want to sell his Wigfrid GoH for $200 and is willing to wait, but if Joe Happy and Tommy Smiles are also trying to unload their Wigfrid GoHs at the same time and only care about getting rid of them fast for $50, Ralphie Yoyo is going to have some problems selling his for that price.

[thegreatmanagement]

2 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Well, that's a hard question to answer w/out it being subjective, lol.  I can really only answer this from a personal standpoint, and I would honestly prefer to take a more macro view of the situation than a micro one.

I'm already a have-not, as I've mentioned a few times in the past, so it would be a natural inclination for me to back a system that would help my own plight.  But I don't know that would actually be what's best for the game and community, y'know?

So looking at it from a broader perspective, I feel that adding more people to the mix, each receiving more drops and offering more trades may help to alleviate some of the issues of rarity that we are having currently.  

A Wigfrid GoH (yes, I like this example lol) is a rare item right now, but the only people trading them are the small subsect of players that:

1) Play DST and post on the forums

2) Are interested in the hassle of trading in forums for extremely niche currencies such as more skins or TF2 keys

3) And are not content to simply play the game itself for FREE drops

That's a pretty narrow demographic when compared to the entirety of the DST player base, all things considered.

I think that the hope here is that by widening that demographic by removing the limitations of both #1 and #2, there would be a larger influx of those rare items to combat the inflation.  Certainly they will still be more expensive than lower tier items, but the seller's market would also need to compete w/ each other in order to actually sell their items.

Direct competition is the general factor that helps to drive prices down.  For people who care about real world examples, oil was pretty recently trading at very high prices until OPEC decided to release more to the world in efforts to drive the American oil industry out of business.. as a result, we are all "enjoying" low gas prices due to their competition.

We do not suddenly have MORE oil in the world, it is just as rare and even more so as before, as it's a finite resource, and yet prices still drop due to this jostling of competition in the oil economy.  Okay, enough of that real world stuff.  Blech.

I guess a good part of the argument also simply boils down to the numbers.. as in how rare each drop really is in the inner workings of the game. The trade-inn prices aren't really indicative of anything in my opinion, and the only basis we have so far is just speculation. I do take JoeW saying that rare items will be maintained as rare means that they're pretty dang low though. Competition is also a true point to make - but we don't know for sure how that competition will work directly (competition only works best when you have more of it really; if it's limited, that's where you get problems such as collusion, price rigging, price chasing, etc) And with that you also can't assume that more people will sell the more people get too - what if people just end up keeping most items? I don't think anyone would buy to retail because that's going to theoretically result in either breaking even or losing anyway. That results in a consistently low supply still (which is the problem) 

[leonseye]

I agree that we don't really know how much competition there will be if / when the system is opened up to the marketplace.

I think that's the uncertainty that is really driving much of this discussion.  Will prices be super high?  Will they normalize quickly?  Will the same problems persist?

None of these are really known factors, and uncertainty makes people nervous; to the point of irrationality.

I, for one, am not afraid to give it a chance and see how things pan out.  However, I certainly understand and sympathize w/ those who are more reluctant to take chances.

After all, I am a have-not and I've got nothing at all to lose, but not everyone is in that same boat.

Still, if the trading ecosystem takes a turn for the worst as many of the doomsayers in this thread predict, I also have faith that Klei will take steps to rectify that situation, either by adjusting drop rates, adding more skins, or simply removing the skins from the marketplace altogether in a worst-case scenario.

[thegreatmanagement]

5 minutes ago, leonseye said:

I agree that we don't really know how much competition there will be if / when the system is opened up to the marketplace.

I think that's the uncertainty that is really driving much of this discussion.  Will prices be super high?  Will they normalize quickly?  Will the same problems persist?

None of these are really known factors, and uncertainty makes people nervous; to the point of irrationality.

I, for one, am not afraid to give it a chance and see how things pan out.  However, I certainly understand and sympathize w/ those who are more reluctant to take chances.

After all, I am a have-not and I've got nothing at all to lose, but not everyone is in that same boat.

Still, if the trading ecosystem takes a turn for the worst as many of the doomsayers in this thread predict, I also have faith that Klei will take steps to rectify that situation, either by adjusting drop rates, adding more skins, or simply removing the skins from the marketplace altogether in a worst-case scenario.

True though. I do fear the consequences greatly though, seeing the history of other markets like some have said to the point I'd rather not even take the chance. But at the same time that is a very good point. The nothing to lose part - that's also a factor for quite a few people so that should in my opinion be taken strongly into effect. Other then that nicely said. 

[Asparagus]

12 hours ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Asparagus is disagreeing you just really don't.... care.

I was asleep... I live in a different timezone you see...

Hmm... I don't think any of my points have been dismissed yet or have I missed something... I kinda woke up to a lot of reading...

I saw a few people say something along the lines of acquiring skins for the sake of having skins... :T I think I kinda mentioned something about that in my post above... I think #5?

4 hours ago, ThaumicParrot said:

No prob dude! However, I am thankful to @LoayzaPaul for trading me a dapper tux for webber's GOH! And I can wear it on anyone!

 that's great to hear that you got something you wanted out of it

So... I have a question (to anyone)... will adding a $ on skins (that in no way adds your chances in survivability in game) hinder us from trading in the same way we are trading right now? Or do we expect the major traders we know like @Exhu (sorry to make you the example, I currently can't name anyone else right now, I am in no way pointing anything directly at you, I'm sorry) to jack their prices up? They have been nice in their trading as for what I heard... would they somehow not do that when they themselves believe that what they will be selling is will be worth what they actually think it is based on what they should be?

On 2/2/2016 at 8:22 AM, JoeW said:

In addition to that, we will be turning on marketability for items so that you can choose to sell them on the steam market rather than use them to trade up through the Trade Inn. At first, some people are going to sell too high, and some people are going to sell too low, but then things will even out as the community decides what the items are worth to them. This will allow people to better understand the value of the items that they have and let's players have more choices for how they can get different items. 

I realize that there were a few who stated their... "dismay" (to say the least) regarding this and have threatened to leave... I have to be honest... this kinda hurt... I love both games... seeing people abandon them (or this community) just because of the threat of new players coming in that would otherwise "wreck" the way things are... well, isn't it our job to keep the peace? We who know what should and shouldn't be? (I am sounding like a total fruit right now but I can't phrase these any other way right now I'm afraid)

People keep saying other people will be inhumane and become greedy... are we talking about the same people who we have in these forums? If so, it would be sad to see... and if it's those new comers... will we let those kinds of ways thrive? If they sell a GoH for $1000 and you absolutely MUST have it... would you give in? (am I being overly optimistic of humanity? no, just this forum)

As of now, we have already stated the pros and cons of this matter... why not go for suggestions next? A few have already stated things that would merit consideration such as what @Fidooop stated... IRL economy's dying and people more intelligent than some are hanging by a thread just to keep it up... why do we suddenly assume that economy in this manner would be easy to handle?

I say fix it and not abandon it... if it can be fixed...

(I sound sooooo cheesy right now...)

(no one seems to answer my naive questions anyway... eh <__< )

I kinda got most of my stuff from really nice people and right now and a few from lucky drops... I don't have much and I don't idle (I tried it once... only got 2 commons :T and didn't do it again cuz electricity bills :T)

[VexTheHex]

 The main way for this to of remained innocent and without much issues was if the items were never able to be traded or marketed. I have already looked up multiple accounts on Steam and see people with 100+ items with many Distinguished and Spiffy. (few had multiple GOH) These people more than likely traded from other games (TF2 or CS) or relied on multiple accounts/idling. Some of these people even show resentment on their higher tier items building up. I have also seen people hoarding certain items like backpacks as well. I'm not sure this is working out as intended anyway with the people hoarding and idling their way to being DST rich.

 Meanwhile I sit at my 24 drops, 4 of those are White T-shirts. 20 of my drops are White Tier/Common drops with 6 of those being repeats. I haven't had the best of luck, but I have scored a Distinguished Valkyrie Armor and Spiffy Rucksack. 

 If things were going to stay fair and clean, the items would need to not be marketed or traded. Either way will lead to issues. The Trade Inn could of been a exchange system (give up 5 drops for a new one) or in-game trade market allowing players to post say a certain common for another certain common. Or a Distinguished for a Distinguished. Everyone would of been placed more in luck's hands and multiple accounts idling would not benefit the person as much as it does now. Since they'd have to trade a GOH/Distinguished for the same tier from their alternate account(s).

[Exhu]

1 hour ago, VexTheHex said:

 The main way for this to of remained innocent and without much issues was if the items were never able to be traded or marketed. I have already looked up multiple accounts on Steam and see people with 100+ items with many Distinguished and Spiffy. (few had multiple GOH) These people more than likely traded from other games (TF2 or CS) or relied on multiple accounts/idling. Some of these people even show resentment on their higher tier items building up. I have also seen people hoarding certain items like backpacks as well. I'm not sure this is working out as intended anyway with the people hoarding and idling their way to being DST rich.

 Meanwhile I sit at my 24 drops, 4 of those are White T-shirts. 20 of my drops are White Tier/Common drops with 6 of those being repeats. I haven't had the best of luck, but I have scored a Distinguished Valkyrie Armor and Spiffy Rucksack. 

 If things were going to stay fair and clean, the items would need to not be marketed or traded. Either way will lead to issues. The Trade Inn could of been a exchange system (give up 5 drops for a new one) or in-game trade market allowing players to post say a certain common for another certain common. Or a Distinguished for a Distinguished. Everyone would of been placed more in luck's hands and multiple accounts idling would not benefit the person as much as it does now. Since they'd have to trade a GOH/Distinguished for the same tier from their alternate account(s).

24 drops means you likely haven't been playing as long as some of us though. Either that, or you didn't start getting drops til the merge whereas people who have more items have been getting drops since caves beta back in October and trading since then as well.

[The Letter W]

This thread has been a ride from start to finish. 

As someone who was playing TF2 when the trading/store was introduced and saw the echoes when skins were introduced here, all I can really say is... are you playing the game or the drop/trade system? I mean yeah everybody likes shiny new things but you have to sit back for a moment and remember who you are why you're here.

The marketplace is going to be rough when it starts, no one can change that. However, you don't have to buy in to those wiggety-whack prices either. As more reasonable prices pop up, that's what'll sell, and people will adjust accordingly. And, nobody says you have to use it. I'm sure there'll still be people willing to do 1:1 trades or whatever it is people trade for. All the marketplace will be is just another option.

At least, that's what I'm gathering here. I could be way off the mark and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. 

I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand the amount of DST drops I have due to lacking time to play since about... June of last year. 

[VexTheHex]

1 hour ago, Exhu said:

24 drops means you likely haven't been playing as long as some of us though. Either that, or you didn't start getting drops til the merge whereas people who have more items have been getting drops since caves beta back in October and trading since then as well.

 Ah, I had been playing since Together came out, but I opted out after beta RofG deleted my saves when I switched to it.That explains the large gaps I see in people's pool of items. I really didn't think it was that large of a gap, thanks for reminding me.Though I'm sure there are plenty of idle multiple account people as well. Good note on that is I guess Klei gets more sales from them buying the game for each account.

 I also want to note that I want to support Klei and see Don't Starve Together grow more. I don't want it to be like Valve and TF2 by any means as I actually respect Klei's love and dedication for their games. But I do wonder if the revenue they'd gain from the market transactions would help keep the game funded. They do a lot of work on their DLC whether it is free like Through the Ages will be or paid for like RofG or Shipwrecked. So, I'm really hoping DST's future can be longer term.

 I do wonder if and how future drops would be added since retiring the sets we have now would be terrible. Though adding more to the pile makes it hard to actually get one of the drops you been hoping for. 

[werlpolf]

ok, I do not ve any clues about TF2 and its skin-market. But let me summarize the idea of tradable skins with real money in DST

1. We get for free some game features (skins), which are distinguished and differ from their rarity.

Free means just playing or how it is called 'idling' and we are getting them as gifts.

2. Now some people like to get some skins, from others

- by trading (with other skins in DST or even of other games)

- by buying. The price will depend on

+ the buyer's power all over the world (china, usa, russia, europe, ...)

+ the buyer's interest for things without real, economic worth

+ the price does not depend on the creativity and time spend by the designers, who made the skins. They will not earn any cent for it in that market (or am I wrong with the steam trade inn market?). The market may make DST more popular.

3. Reason for the trading is, that just playing for an unspecific time is unconvenient for getting the skins and same people like to get their aimed skins from other people - even for money.

4. Conclusion:

- Playing (for fun) or idling will get a value in real money. People, who don't know how easy idling is, will pay money to other people, who keep their PC all day on.

- People with many of the best skins have either played alot and got some luck or paid some money for their skins

- Since there will be no way in losing the skins, the market will boost the generating of a mass amount of skins. This will decrease the value of all tradable skins and everyone will be able to get all their desired (and tradable) skins.

5. Problem: This market is not based on the real (economic) costs. It does not bring any win or value to the whole society, but accelerates the consumption of already existing resources (playing DST). Klei could give everyone all the skins out, but Klei may follow a deeper strategy.

6. Recommendation: If you want to include money with the skins, then let also the designers participate on the win. For example instead of a skin, we can also get some gift cards. With these gift cards we can get some discount on skins, which we choose on the steam market with a fixed or varied price. Then I will not have any problem about selling skins to others. But getting skins for free and selling them is very weird to me. Its like lumbering the jungles.

 

We can even go one step further: DST is for free with some restrictions (1st year free, specific items not availbe, etc). To get over these restrictions, we need to play alot and then we get some licences. By activating these licenses on steam, we can get more of the game. These licenses are trabable with money on steam. How do you like it XD

 

 

[Asparagus]

15 minutes ago, werlpolf said:

6. Recommendation: If you want to include money with the skins, then let also the designers participate on the win. For example instead of a skin, we can also get some gift cards. With these gift cards we can get some discount on skins, which we choose on the steam market with a fixed or varied price. Then I will not have any problem about selling skins to others. But getting skins for free and selling them is very weird to me. Its like lumbering the jungles.

 

We can even go one step further: DST is for free with some restrictions (1st year free, specific items not availbe, etc). To get over these restrictions, we need to play alot and then we get some licences. Activating these licenses on steam we can get more from the game. These licenses are trabable with money on steam. How do you like it XD

I'm not even... (/O__O)?

lol

[werlpolf]

On 2/2/2016 at 7:10 AM, Asparagus said:

• We are already trading TF2 keys for DST skins that cost nothing... NOTHING... T__T
• When we put a price on these skins, taking point #4, would that not be FAIR? Something of value for something of value? T__T

This I mean. I am thinking it is a win-lose situation. DST skins have no value, because you get them for free. Its like I am selling you a rock and telling you its a beautifull magic rock. Or I gifting you a rose, which I got from your own garden. This business must be prevented and not developed.

On 2/2/2016 at 7:10 AM, Asparagus said:

Actually using these skins in-game would be very nice... but just for the sake of having them in your shelf and giving yourself a pat on the back... would you think it better to get it with or without money? (<--- A serious question to think about, I am thinking about this myself and no jab to any side... pun not intended)

I thought about it. Fact is, as many people here are telling it, folks are trading with these skins anyway (not very clever). Now because they like to trade with it, but it has no real value (you make the value by your own interest only), Klei can give it a value by pricing them. You guys seems indeed interested in them and like to give money for them. Then give the money the designers -> Klei. Then everyone can trade with them with others like you do with steam-games. The direct buying and trading will function harmonically. But CURRENTLY everyone should give their skins away for free, because they got them also for free.

[leonseye]

As I understand it, Klei does receive a (small) portion of each transaction made through the Steam marketplace, so the developers would receive a small cut for each skin that is bought and sold in this manner.

The skins are indeed free just for playing the game, but due to the rarity of some of them and the fact that people love to look and feel "special / unique", they have been given a value above zero by the community.  Obviously, that's why they are being traded in the first place.

Some people want them for personal collections (completionists); others only trade for skins that they actually wish to wear on their characters (players like myself and others), and still more don't seem to care about keeping them at all, and just making a profit (evidenced by the fact that many are trading for keys only, which can then be used as currency elsewhere on Steam).

I don't think it's wrong to try to accommodate all of these types of players.

It's easy to say that everyone should just give their stuff away for free, and there are plenty who do exactly that.  But the fact is that a trade economy has already been established; it is the status quo now and going back would make many players who have been collecting skins since October (personally, I skipped the Caves beta branch until preconfig servers were created) are going to feel maligned.

[Asparagus]

What I meant in those two points is that

1. People do not seem to like the idea of putting prices on skins
2. But they are trading TF2 keys which I believe cost money(?)
3. And so I was stating that some people are already using a form of currency to buy something that is free, namely their TF2 keys on DST skins that drop for free
4. So I hinted that would it be so bad to place a price on these DST skins and give Klei a little more income to pay their artists if they are being bought with something that costs money (TF2 keys, etc.)?
5. From what I see, people buy the game once... they are continuously adding more stuff in the game. How they can keep doing that with the little they earned from 1 sale of their game to 1 person (not to mention "bundles") is already amazing... they are not a big company... ("Or are they?" sorry, I just had to). I do not know what their finances are looking right now, and so I may be wrong on this...
6. Thinking about it, TF2 is free to play... I guess the only way for them to earn is though the OPTIONAL items they sell... IDK, they add stats or something right? IDK, it just reminds of of MMOs... <__<

[leonseye]

8 hours ago, Asparagus said:

 

So... I have a question (to anyone)... will adding a $ on skins (that in no way adds your chances in survivability in game) hinder us from trading in the same way we are trading right now? Or do we expect the major traders we know like @Exhu (sorry to make you the example, I currently can't name anyone else right now, I am in no way pointing anything directly at you, I'm sorry) to jack their prices up? They have been nice in their trading as for what I heard... would they somehow not do that when they themselves believe that what they will be selling is will be worth what they actually think it is based on what they should be?

 

I believe that the true fear here isn't that trading in the current fashion won't be allowed or possible, but that when people can receive actual money for their inventories, many will stop trading for things like skins and TF2 and only accept cold, hard cash.  That, and those who currently have leverage through great inventories will lose that leverage to other players who simply have more money IRL than them, which I can understand is going to leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

Then there are some who just honestly seem resistant to anything that might hurt the established trading prices; personally, I feel this is a naive tact, as any new additions or changes are going to have the exact same effect of rising prices and devalued merchandise.

I honestly don't know what the current traders will do, as I don't know their trading habits, but it stands to reason that since many follow the current "market" trends already, they will raise their prices accordingly to match the new trends in the trading economy.  That is just how business works.

Of course, there are still going to be those players who don't care that much about making money and still give things away for free or cheap, and they may even sell a few of the rarer items for a tidy amount in order to give themselves buying power for other skins that they may have had their eye on.  It's hard to tell how someone will react when something worth actual money lands in their lap... for free.

8 hours ago, Asparagus said:

I realize that there were a few who stated their... "dismay" (to say the least) regarding this and have threatened to leave... I have to be honest... this kinda hurt... I love both games... seeing people abandon them (or this community) just because of the threat of new players coming in that would otherwise "wreck" the way things are... well, isn't it our job to keep the peace? We who know what should and shouldn't be? (I am sounding like a total fruit right now but I can't phrase these any other way right now I'm afraid)

I know that I'm quoting these posts somewhat out of order (sorry, I just woke up), but I do feel that this particular question should be addressed, as it is important to our community at large, even beyond the skins issue itself.

I haven't been half as active as many posters in these forums, but even I am disappointed to see some abandon the game over an influx of new players and still others say that they will no longer open their servers to newer players.

I haven't seen any evidence of how new players might "wreck" our community, as DST servers are small and usually made up of friends.  There are vote kicks and ban lists to handle those who might just come in to idle (and honestly, why would they come to your server to idle when they can just host their own?).

Perhaps I am the one being naive here, but how exactly would these new players hurt anybody's actual gameplay experience?  Not skin prices, not trading, but your actual time in the game playing your Woodies and Wigfrids and Willows and Wilsons?  How would it be any worse than kicking and banning any of the plethora of griefers that we currently have (and let's not pretend these don't already exist in numbers)?

[werlpolf]

13 minutes ago, leonseye said:

But the fact is that a trade economy has already been established; it is the status quo now and going back would make many players who have been collecting skins since October

ok, then Klei has to wait for the 'appropriate' time like, like Facebook, when it has introduced ads in their social networks. But maybe the steam market is enough ....

 

14 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

would it be so bad to place a price on these DST skins if they are being bought with something that costs money?

It is not bad. It is awkward, when people say, they don't like to buy skins, but getting them over trades with other people by offering valued games or real money. For me, I don't like to give money to someone, who got it for free, but I like to give money to the producer, if I like to get it.

 

18 minutes ago, leonseye said:

they have been given a value above zero by the community.

I understand it very well, but don't support that. Anyway, if people like doing it, then they can do it. No one will stop them

[t0panka]

25 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

What I meant in those two points is that

1. People do not seem to like the idea of putting prices on skins
2. But they are trading TF2 keys which I believe cost money(?)
3. And so I was stating that some people are already using a form of currency to buy something that is free, namely their TF2 keys on DST skins that drop for free
4. So I hinted that would it be so bad to place a price on these DST skins if they are being bought with something that costs money?

 

Exactly. DST items are already marketable. All that will change is that players will have proper way to buy/sell items and also be properly informed about prices. I think some of players here against idea of marketable items are afraid that they could not sell their items for big amount of keys because now people will be informed about prices in market and noone can trick someone to buy 1 item for 20 keys (at least not that easily) + Klei will get small amount of $ (maybe even big amount) from marketable items and that is good for every one of us!

Also for those who have no experience with steam market. If you wanna buy something on market you need to add "steam funds" to your account. Also if you sell your items that money will be locked in your steam account. You are not getting it to your bank account so you can use that money only on steam to buy other items or games. It is the same as it is happening now with keys. After this update we will have all place to see prices and also sell some lower items. Even if it was for 0.01$ for 1 common you still can get enough "steam $" to buy better items after some time. 

Now i have 5.87€ on my steam account only from selling free cards we get from playing games and those free cards we get with special events like we did on christmas. I can already buy SW only because i sold free stuff. This game will be free(cost my time of course) for me and Klei will still get their $ if i purchase it with these "steam $".

More people iddling means more money for Klei and that means more content for us. Who doesn't want that? Do some of you want some elegant item more than new content to our favourite game? Also there is plenty of iddlers and most of us even trading with them and noone has problems with that. They are not bothering anyone - at least they never bothered me. People will still cheat, grief, sell, go around rules, etc. no matter what Klei will do.

 

BTW noone will put Wigfrid head on market for 300 or 500$ so please STOP scaring people with this. Now everyone thinks they need second job to afford some elegant item. Thats ridiculous :/ Also noone is forcing you to sell/buy for keys or "steam $" at all .)

[Asparagus]

3 minutes ago, t0panka said:

Now i have 5.87€ on my steam account only from selling free cards we get from playing games and those free cards we get with special events like we did on christmas.

lol, I can finally get out of level 0... *wink wink*

[Arcita]

51 minutes ago, t0panka said:

Exactly. DST items are already marketable. All that will change is that players will have proper way to buy/sell items and also be properly informed about prices. I think some of players here against idea of marketable items are afraid that they could not sell their items for big amount of keys because now people will be informed about prices in market and noone can trick someone to buy 1 item for 20 keys (at least not that easily) + Klei will get small amount of $ (maybe even big amount) from marketable items and that is good for every one of us!

More people iddling means more money for Klei and that means more content for us. Who doesn't want that? Do some of you want some elegant item more than new content to our favourite game? Also there is plenty of iddlers and most of us even trading with them and noone has problems with that. They are not bothering anyone - at least they never bothered me. People will still cheat, grief, sell, go around rules, etc. no matter what Klei will do.

So much this. The only argument I've seen those against the market make is some nebulous fear that it'll turn into tf2, but people are ALREADY idling and selling/buying skins for money. By putting it on the market officially you just discourage sharking. And I don't know why people are so against Klei making a small profit. They straight up gave away thousands of copies of DST when it launched, and they underpriced Shipwrecked by quite a lot. I don't know what else they have to do to prove that they're the good guys. 

Considering that people are already buying/selling skins, putting it on the market just seems like the sensible thing to do moving forward. It informs people what things are generally worth so that they don't get taken advantage of. Whatever other solutions there may be, I think the market is a necessary component.