Before skilltree, let's talk Willow

[Frosty_Mentos]

I really don't know what Willow is despite depiction of being a fiery witch, a girl that gone mad and wants to see the world burn. She been an odd case for a while and now even bigger oddity to how her kit and playstyle exists in-game. She's a mix of everything from survival to defense while the cold combined with rain or just cold being her biggest weakness to easily die to if not careful. So I'm putting my two cents what she may actually be in the upcoming update to make her feel like she's more than just a survivalist.

She likely could benefit off of cursed items more maybe since she's a pyro and mad, Bernie feels like he might be a cursed item she somehow made it come to life from anxiety and negative emotions to act as her shield. Fire ignores her physically but unsure how far canon wise it would also ignore the things she carries. She's between a summoner and a survivalist, a well versed enigma that can do many things but nothing drastic like gaining strength or manipulating the world around her, unless to some extent. I don't think I've seen anyone dissecting or trying to understand her mechanics besides the whole psychic thing that she's the pyro girl from a book.

I firmly believe that she should be able to use the oddities like cat tails or other weird trinkets and stuffs as to make her own cursed trinkets she could use on self or mostly others, like reveal enemies in the dark, stumble at an attack etc. Thulecite or Void gear could be her lategame set to summon shadow tenticles at higher rate or weakening the enemies with stronger curse presence due to her having the affinity to make them powerful. Nothing like Maxwell with minion damage scaling but that she'd need to go do work directly to make the damage or effects take hold to happen.

Heck, her fires could change and turn shadow overtime, since she does find purple fire rather interesting or fun she might be fine with having less destructive but more lethal ways to use it. Or even benefit greatly from using items like Scalemail since it's got fiery affinity and she doesn't get it's benefits besides just settings enemies on fire.

Cursed items, sanity based mechanics, evolving fire. Those are the suggestions I have in mind. I know it probably won't be as cool as I have in mind but it's fun to think of the possibility to make her prolly from most underwhelming to many players to probably coolest concepts of what a character could do to be interesting fun and amazing at doing what they do.

[Captain_Rage]

Classic Willow = nice.

[-Variant]

I don't personally understand the desire to turn her into a magic character. Or a summoner, actually.

We've got a lot of characters that fill both of those roles, with Wicker being entirely magic based, and Maxwell being... both! Wendy too, trends similar ground with her potions and Abigail.

I really just want her to stay the fire lady. That's who she is!! I've been playing Willow since way before DST was even a thing, I'd hate to see her change so drastically this late into her lifespan as a character.
I'm bloody confident that Klei can pull off a proper fire character. There's plenty of perfect examples of fire being used in the game without the harsh drawbacks of say, wildfires.

There's a lot you can do with her and whilst sticking to fires as a theme. You just need to be creative and confident! Holding back sorta just gives you what we currently have. A character with some minor fire perks and a giant bear. 

[Masked Koopa]

give her a flamethrower and a flare gun

[Dragonboooorn]

pyro crossover when

[HowlVoid]

So a way to make her magical without making her magical would be to make her something akin to a shaman.

Burning effigys, animal sacrifices, ritual dances etc. 

Some examples of what I mean and these are NOT suggestions.

Self-immolation: Sacrifice a straw doll of willow into a campfire and willow becomes ablaze. She could be immune to winter and being frozen but loses hp over time. More skill points invested equals less hp loss, the fire is magical and doesn't spread (purple flame). Can also sacrifice on the lighter giving it more use 

Sacrificial empowerment: Sacrifice an animal to an open flame and willow gains a stack of empowerment with a time limit (up to a cap). Each stack increases her fire damage slightly. 

I also would like to add an ability where she rips out her heart and its a lump of coal on fire but that's probably pushing it. (But would be so macabre if she puts in Bernie and Willow dances around like Bernie does aka becomes the puppet and you control Bernie).

Anyways, I think dark themes for gaining more fire based powers would fit her nicely. She sacrificed her innocence for a power to escape that orphanage. What won't she sacrifice to appease the fire in her further?

[Theukon-dos]

1 hour ago, -Variant said:

I don't personally understand the desire to turn her into a magic character. Or a summoner, actually.

We've got a lot of characters that fill both of those roles, with Wicker being entirely magic based, and Maxwell being... both! Wendy too, trends similar ground with her potions and Abigail.

I really just want her to stay the fire lady. That's who she is!! I've been playing Willow since way before DST was even a thing, I'd hate to see her change so drastically this late into her lifespan as a character.
I'm bloody confident that Klei can pull off a proper fire character. There's plenty of perfect examples of fire being used in the game without the harsh drawbacks of say, wildfires.

There's a lot you can do with her and whilst sticking to fires as a theme. You just need to be creative and confident! Holding back sorta just gives you what we currently have. A character with some minor fire perks and a giant bear. 

I can't speak for everyone, but disgregarding how Willow is occasionally depicted as a witch, my logic for Willow becoming a mage character is:

 

Fire doesn't do anything in this game but mindlessly consume and destroy.

Willow needs to be a fire-based character.

Inorder to be a fire-based character, Willow needs a disproportionate amount of control over fire.

If Willow needs a disproportionate amount of control over fire, then the best way to explain that is either Pyromancy or Pyrokenesis.

 

[GenomeSquirrel]

I’d like fire, don’t care if it’s magic or not. 
 

the problems are that Wickerbottom solves night

killing enemies with burning items is a lot of work and turns rewards to ash.

 

She likely needs benefits tied to a fire being near her, abilities that override properties of fire near her (burn time, damage, spreading), perhaps mass producible crafts to compensate for the intent to burn them, and fire panic status is fun.

[Brago-sama]

I mean if non magic fire usage is everyones thing they could definetely build ontop of her current fuel effeciency she already has. Doesnt have to be combat related i suppose

Perhaps grant her the ability to create a super fuel that grants firepits massive range/duration (That should probably combo/synergize with her current fuel efficiency so that it isnt a pick and swap craft)

Should definetely do something with her lighter. Perhaps a skill point that allows her to drop it for a small miniature campfire (I mean you can already cook on it, why not). Feed it fuel for light? Idk

Im no Willow main, eh. I hope ya'll get what you want out of her skill tree

 

 

[-Variant]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Burning effigys, animal sacrifices, ritual dances etc. 

I think some of the ideas are a bit specific, and uh, a bit macabre. Which is always fun, but I think push it.

HOWEVER, I think this could be a fun way to go about it. Especially things like ritual dances. I love her fire-dancer Magmatic themed skin!! Maybe we can bring back that old unused bonfire!

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Self-immolation

This is something I experimented with in my quasi rework. Most of my ideas made it into a friends mod, which you can find here. I don't like promoting like this often, but I think this is the direction I'd want to go with when it comes to Willow.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2961834171

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

my logic for Willow becoming a mage character is: Pyromancy or Pyrokenesis.

See, I'm not against this.

I think I over explained my main concern into redundancy. 
I very specifically just don't want her to fall into a generic everyday witch trope type character. I don't want her big fire immunity reveal to be "She's a fire witch!" I like its vague oddity. She's literally just a woman who's immune to fire. I love that! Yes, that'd be considered magic, but I like that they've made it this far without needing to fall back onto the witch trope to build onto her.

With that said, of course you're going to need to work with something like Pyromancy to make fires a more viable tool. Other characters have wonderful fire perks, like Wickerbottom and Wolfgang. Wolfgang's firebells are absolutely amazing! Something I feel Willow would've strongly benefitted from...

1 hour ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

She likely needs benefits tied to a fire being near her, abilities that override properties of fire near her (burn time, damage, spreading), perhaps mass producible crafts to compensate for the intent to burn them, and fire panic status is fun.

Stuff like this is awesome, I'd love this! Make the fire her tool, not a source of aimless destruction. Make it aimed! A weapon!
Let her savor items from turning to ashes, let her control and manipulate the spread and destruction that fire brings.

I've seen people mention that her getting more control of fire would be odd, but Willow as a character isn't dumb! While she obviously wants things to burn, it's not out of character for her to prevent important things from burning if it hinders her. (If this sort of thing even needs to be contested with lore for gameplays sake. Which I feel it doesn't. She can have ways to falter fire without it being a big deal!)

[Gashzer]

Willow being able to craft different fire bombs that she can throw with the blast radius of brightshade bombs would be cool. Normal fire bombs does 50 AoE fire damage and sets ground fires. Endothermic fire bomb does no damage but freezes mobs for 3 ice staff worth of freeze and also creates a endo blue ground fire that freezes and damages mobs over time like gestalt varg. Shadow fire bomb that does 100 damage and creates shadow fire that panics mobs but doesnt burn loot or burn down stuff.

We see Willow explode in fire while in the closet during her short (she could of crafted a fire bomb since we didnt see what happened exactly) So fire bombs would kinda make sense from a lore point of view too

As a part-time Willow main i hope she doesnt get any witchy or magic fire attacks. Practical explosives or a real flamethrower (gestalt varg has made a flamethrower weapon a real possiblity now) would suit Willow better than purely magical fires.

[Cheggf]

She's a pyromaniac, not a pyromancer.

[chirsg]

You know, for anyone who doesn't want her "That buffed" I say to hell with that. I can't speak on behalf of the Willow mains, but c'mon. Dream a little. 

Functionally, Wickerbottom is a literal witch with grimoires, Woodie is no longer a strict lycanthrope and instead a shapeshifting animagus, Wigfrid is a literal RPG paladin, Maxwell is a shadow wizard, Wurt is a warlord, Webber too is a warlord, and somehow, Wolfgang is also a warlord.

 

For anyone complaining about powercreep, it's a response to the world in the end getting more difficult, and the difficulty shift hasn't even ended. We might see a world where each mosling becomes a literal raid boss that destroys known life in it's radius. 

 

I can't influence Willows how to think, but I say be a bit more open to how powerful she could become and it might be fun. 

 

She isn't "supposed" to be a pyromancer, but technically, Wickerbottom isn't supposed to be a literal Hogwarts graduate. She's McGonagall by virtue of being a librarian

 

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

You know, for anyone who doesn't want her "That buffed" I say to hell with that. I can't speak on behalf of the Willow mains, but c'mon. Dream a little. 

I have never once seen anyone argue that Willow shouldn't be buffed. The only things I've seen anyone say are that she shouldn't be turned into something she isn't, with the focus being on fire, not magic or her bear. 

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

She isn't "supposed" to be a pyromancer, but technically, Wickerbottom isn't supposed to be a literal Hogwarts graduate.

Wickerbottom is not a literal Hogwarts graduate. Wickerbottom's current power is the same that it's always been: she reads books, and magic effects happen. The only time she didn't have this power is when she didn't have any power at all. Unless you're suggesting that Willow be reworked into a pyromancing witch by giving her a new lighter that looks different and has a larger light radius, this comparison is completely irrelevant. 

[Flip Face]

16 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

She likely needs benefits tied to a fire being near her, abilities that override properties of fire near her (burn time, damage, spreading), perhaps mass producible crafts to compensate for the intent to burn them, and fire panic status is fun.

And splash/ricochet too.

[CaptainChaotica]

I've always felt that original-version (or regular Don't Starve) Willow, the "Strange New Powers" version, WAS a pyrokinetic...but an untrained one. She has the power but can't control it, as seen with her panic-fires. Unfortunately nothing even slightly equivalent to Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters exists in the Constant (as far as we know), so she's stuck being a wild-talent.

Fire-based witch...? MAYbe, and I mean yeah, there's stuff in/tangential to the game that kinda themes her that way, but I don't know about being a full-on magic user type. I can see her putting on a witch hat for Hallowed Nights, but most of the time she's a snarky mutant who don't need no education, can withstand fire, use fire-based objects better than anyone else, and if you suggested she do anything formal with it she'd probably roll her eyes and talk to Chester instead. :P

Here's a possible idea: How about she can also do something with ENDO fires? She doesn't seem to be against them. When you have her examine a roaring endo fire, instead of being sad that it's cold, she's like "BURN! BURN FASTER! AND BLUER!" Maybe she could set occasional (very occasional) endo fires in the summer, that instead of burning down the base, others could be like "Ooh!" and briefly gather around them for a few seconds to cool down a bit? 

I dunno, just chucking out random ideas here.

...Notorious

[Evelo]

I'm all for updating Willow to be more fire-centric. I (jokingly) suggested a WW1 Flamethrower for her, but a tank of gasoline, increased usages on Fire Staves, bringing back burning items in inventory are all things I have tossed around in my head. Hell even combining Bernie into the mix can she light Bernie on fire to be a walking bonfire AoE thing would be neat.

I would also like more in game or short representations of Willow and Wormwoods relationship because a Plant lover with a Pyromaniac seems like a match made in the Constant.

[Antynomity]

On 11/9/2023 at 2:56 PM, chirsg said:

For anyone complaining about powercreep, it's a response to the world in the end getting more difficult, and the difficulty shift hasn't even ended. We might see a world where each mosling becomes a literal raid boss that destroys known life in it's radius. 

We'll see in 3 years.

Other than that, Willow does deserve some unique things, probably not pushing it as far as some reworks and Woodie's skill tree did, but still unique, which she currently isn't at all, except for like 2 interactions that I never see anyone use.

[Antynomity]

On 11/9/2023 at 1:58 AM, HowlVoid said:

Self-immolation: Sacrifice a straw doll of willow into a campfire and willow becomes ablaze. She could be immune to winter and being frozen but loses hp over time. More skill points invested equals less hp loss, the fire is magical and doesn't spread (purple flame). Can also sacrifice on the lighter giving it more use 

Self-immolation is an idea I've had myself before and I think it'd be a really interesting way of incorporating additional perks while the player would have to actually do something to activate said perks, with the downside of possibly burning yourself to a crisp.

[dengta72]

Willow has too few fire characteristics, so calling her a fire girl is a bit far-fetched. It seems good to build a flame altar, similar to that of Fish Girl Walter.

[KvltBear]

I like Willow but the pyro concept was always going to be difficult to pull off given how fire works in this game. What does fire do in don't starve? It burns and destroys and smoulders. Mostly structures and other objects. It leave behind ash or a burnt husk. It cooks food. It provides light. It barely damages mobs and makes them panic and spread fire to flammable objects around them. It's...just not that useful as a main aspect of a character. It's trivial to start a fire with the most basic item in the game, it's trivial to avoid fire damage, it's not trivial to put out fires once they've started. Fire can destroy hundreds of hours worth of gathered resources and buildings. I only use fire staffs to clear out monkeys or to panic mobs that are a threat to me.

Idk, I'm with chirsg, she needs something else, needs to be re imagined as more than just a pyro. Bernie was a start but she's still in a bad place. Fire needs to be a medium for her power aspect like the codex umbra and nightmare fuel is for Maxwell. Craft stuff at a fire pit? Use fire to summon or conjure things? Damage buff if enemy is on fire? Maybe she could be an elemental ranged character? With summons? Difficult to see her as a utility character so it'd have to be combat/magic. Idk. Gonna be tough for Klei, the obsidian thing didn't work out super great in Shipwrecked. Looking forward to their ideas though.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I see Willow right now is more of a stew of survival abilities mixed into a character. Aside what she may be her strongest asset and ability is to use BERNIE! to her disposal. She isn't the normal kind of summoner but has to rely on a cherished trinket like her teddy bear via insanity to make it do the work of tanking. Assuming that Bernie doesn't need anything but lunar alignment buff to be summoned cause for how he already is useful as hell and mostly balanced. 

I wouldn't mind more craftables or cursed items and oddities would have amplified effects depending on her sanity. Sanity based abilities would be neat. If she were to go the lunar aligned then her fires could turn cold and cursed items hit different.