New Beta Update live - Skill Spotlight: Wormwood, Wolfgang, Woodie.

[Ridepod]

I still can't get over how this is such a huge middle finger to the Wilson rework and anyone who cares about him - his rework/refresh was him getting a unique skill tree, hence Wilson with 'sprinkles' or however he was described at some point. But now everyone gets skill trees. So was the real Wilson rework somehow just Werepig getting added? Had to do a whole update for Wilson's rather meager skills (in comparison to some of them in the current beta imo), but now they're doing entire skill updates in trios.

In retrospect, his rework comes off as being more focused on setting the foundation with these pseudo-reworks rather than improving Wilson.

This is a really divisive update coming off the back of some of the biggest nothingburger drama I've seen (cough cough it was just a helmet skin cough) after 2 updates that weren't anything super impressive and as they admitted rather incomplete as they set the stage. I really hope future updates deliver and impress

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ridepod

[Creatorofswamps]

22 minutes ago, Ridepod said:

I still can't get over how this is such a huge middle finger to the Wilson rework and anyone who cares about him - his rework/refresh was him getting a unique skill tree, hence Wilson with 'sprinkles' or however he was described at some point. But now everyone gets skill trees. So was the real Wilson rework somehow just Werepig getting added? Had to do a whole update for Wilson's rather meager skills, but now they're doing entire skill updates in trios.

In retrospect, his rework comes off as being more focused on setting the foundation with these pseudo-reworks rather than improving Wilson.

Wilson was really a little cheated during the alteration. They gave him only a skill tree, forgetting about the rework. Let's hope that they will hear us and at least update it a little, or take a fresh look at its trees and improve it

[Ridepod]

2 hours ago, Creatorofswamps said:

Wilson was really a little cheated during the alteration. They gave him only a skill tree, forgetting about the rework. Let's hope that they will hear us and at least update it a little, or take a fresh look at its trees and improve it

It really depends on if you see Wilson's rework as the skill tree or just not existing. Anyone complaining about them going back to reworks AGAIN is completely justified, since they showed that what constitutes a character rework is simply adding skill trees with Wilson's rework. If just adding a skill tree to Wilson is his dedicated rework, then I don't think its a stretch to see these new three skill trees as reworks either. 

 

I sincerely doubt Klei would undo the weeks/months of the effort that's gone into the current beta. With the time that's gone into programming and creating assets and such, they'd be sacrificing a decent monetary value if they were to just in order to listen to some feedback. But better now then however many characters we have left for skill tree updates now... 

 

I personally really like the concept of the skill trees and each player having tweaks to their character choice even if they're the same character, but they should be minor customizations. Woodie desperately needed something for the nightly full moons during moonstorms, but I don't think he needed something like a walking cane, or something like Wolfgang getting speed again. Some of these new perks dwarf stuff like slightly longer torch durability pretty heavily, imo. If Klei doesn't backtrack on their decision to add skill trees to every character, I hope new ones are not the primary focus of new updates, even if done in large batches. I think the roadmap made people looked forward to updates full of new content, not character customization for characters they might not have any interest in playing. 

 

 

 

[ScyanLight]

While a lot of people are scared and don't like theese skill trees i think theyre great since everyone had a rework so making a rework part two would be a waste of time, so instead the skill trees are added to revamp character that need some love without making another rework and animated short, i think the skill trees they added so far are great!  They give more replayability and reward the players for surviving for longer just like in the singleplayer version surviving for longer unlocked cool characters! 

Edited July 10, 2023 by ScyanLight

[Captain_Rage]

6 hours ago, Fufuji said:

Why would you think that Wolfgang need the buff THIS eagerly? I mean, there are more characters struggling even before FB contents, why buff a character who is still strong enough against planar entities and doesn't need any buff? Do you really think that Wolfgang needs these buff? Why can't he have more "fun" and "playable" perks? 

Wormwood the same. So many meaningless skills for him, adding his farming perks is just like giving Wolfgang more damage. A whole branch of 5 skills are simply 5 new recipes crafting plant roots which literally helps nothing other than decoration purpose. 3 skills in a row just buffing the tending range. Just in what case do we need this damn range to be buffed? Why can't he have more "fun" and "playable" perks? 

Quoting this to raise the general level of sanity here.

[Dr. Safety]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:51 AM, Mike23Ua said:

You just got yourself a nice little Xbox Live Ban for a few days/weeks.

Sure you can TELL people just don’t use a certain feature, but to avoid all the above highly probable things that could happen: It would better if Klei just provided server settings so whoever is host can opt if players can use skill trees or if they’re disabled.

Typically I don't like your suggestions to solve whatever issue with making it a generation setting, but I actually really like the idea to make the use of skill trees toggleable. I know a lot of people, some even just from my friend group, that just wants purely vanilla everything, and would want servers that only have the base character with no bells or whistles.

As for the other stuff, sounds like Xbox sucks beefalo cheeks, but that is an issue with Xbox, Klei has no say in that.

[HowlVoid]

Hello Klei, happy Monday!

I think the general consensus is that Wormwood has some lackluster skills. Can you please take another look?

Thank you! 

Edited July 10, 2023 by HowlVoid

[GelatinousCube]

Wow so it took me a little while to read through this thread and take everything in. 

I, like many others, was not expecting full on skill trees for every character. That is a huge change and new direction. While I agree this basically means Wilson didn't get a real rework I don't care as much as others do about this. It is pretty lame for Wilson mains though, while messing with him after his update I found only the insulation (At highest rank I basically didn't have to use thermal stones in winter anymore), torch length and shadow/lunar skills worthwhile. Some of the transmutation stuff was somewhat useful but it was pick and swap sort of stuff: basically respec his tree, transmute a ton of stuff then respec again/change character.

I know he's the default vanilla character but with just how much this game has changed, his brief reign on the throne and the ton of storyline that has now passed (All the update trailers/cinematics) he really deserves a real rework now. 

As for the actual skill trees themselves I'm just not sure, I see both sides honestly. Yeah it's super weird and very RPG and a huge new direction for the game out of nowhere. At the same time it does mean characters who got reworks ages ago that are extremely lack lustre can now be basically fixed. That being said they could have just given additional mini reworks to those characters instead.. It does also bring fresh life and new content to the game however which is always nice and very much gives us a reason to actually play and max out every character. As for the actual trees themselves so far:

Woodies tree seems great and also finally gives us a way to avoid transformations during moonstorms etc. What does the hard hat actually do? Does the carved cane have durability? The treeguard idol sounds really cool if it does what I think/have read on this thread. The tail slam sounds a bit too wild though? 

Wormwoods tree sounds fairly cool but has a lot of random perks thrown together. A lot of them make sense thematically but mechanically why would you want or need half of it? What use are more flower petals for example? Some of the bloom effects and other perks are neat though. Think it just needs a bit of tidying up/tweaks.

Wolfgangs seems the most problematic to me.... why does he have three tiers of shadow/lunar when everyone else has a single skill for beating fuelweaver/celestial champion? He can increase his mighty meter by a huge amount, get his speed boost back in normal form, automate his mini game, get huge planar damage buffs, craft a handful of new dumbbells with special effects (including a thermal stone one it looks like? Kinda cool not gonna lie but so many perks!!). It honestly seems like they've basically just given him back everything people complained about him losing in his rework and SO much more. Why even rework him in the first place and remove his speed, reduce his damage etc if you were going to more or less just bring it all back in the skill tree? So that you have to pick and choose which you want? Still seems weird and over the top.

Not going to lie, Im really excited for Wigfrids skill tree. I was never that impressed with most of wigfrids rework/refresh and elements of it to me personally were terrible and it didn't even come close to comparing to some of the other refreshes that happened before and after hers. Yes I know she is a super solid and easy character to play but I was still unimpressed and dissapointed by it. Now I am psyched to see what she gets and my main may just get some of the perks and abilities I've dreamed of!!

On 7/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, Jason said:

•  
• Survivors can now craft large Support Pillars to create areas safe from quake debris.

Wait so do the new quakes destroy structures again? Because if not why did we get this now? 

The new pillars clearly need to be replaced/repaired right? I really don't like constant upkeep and checking of pillars they should be expensive but permanent. Honestly I think I'll just use them as decoration and keep those dumb quakes off. Honestly they were one of the biggest blunders klei have ever ever made. Oh what's that you guys don't love how destructive rifts are being, we'll tweak that for you oh btw here's a completely unavoidable highly destructive new mechanic that will destroy your entire cave base you spent so long building in the blink of an eye. Seriously?

On 7/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, Jason said:

•  
• Equipment forged from the Brightsmithy and Shadowcraft Plinth can now be repaired using specific repair kits.  When they reach a fully broken state, they can no longer be equipped until repaired

Why....? I don't understand this and don't like this direction at all. Is nothing going to ever break or be used up eventually? 

On 7/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, Jason said:

•  
• Void Cowl and Void Robe no longer provide acid rain immunity.

So back to only a single item in the game protecting against acid rain (without bring dissolved). Why....?

On 7/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, Jason said:

• Ramping shadow planar damage buff now only requires equipping Void Cowl instead of the full set.
• Brightshade weapon buffs now only require equipping Brightshade Helm instead of the full set.

These two changes I actually like as part of the krampus sack/backpack gang. 

[Masked Koopa]

I would quite appreciate it if the body armour also provided the damage boosts, since it is quite fun to use it alongside the celestial crown for some big damage. The helmets already provide protection against sandstorm and darkness and whatnot (not to mention working alongside backpacks and magiluminescence), so I feel like the body armour deserves this. I would suggest them stacking, but this update seems to be against full set bonuses, so I guess not.

[GelatinousCube]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, Jason said:

• Brightshade Helm now prevents Charlie attacks when standing in darkness.

What...? Why...? Enlightened Crown is easily one of the strongest and best items in the game and requires you to kill CC and even then it only provides light if your sanity is high. You can lose the effect if you fight in darkness so it's a balance. Yeah I know to open rifts in the first place you gotta kill CC so yeah you'd have a crown already but even still i absolutely HATE this change. I just do not get it. Like literally just carry around a single brightshade helm once you can get them and darkness is no longer a mechanic. Just pop it on and afk during night if you want, zero danger. Yes you can do the same with the crown but again dependent on sanity and it's a boss drop from one of the hardest bosses. Brightshade helm costs a few husks and brilliance. Yes I know it's a sandbox game too (and yeah ive been pushing that and defending mega bases lately) but my god do we really not think that once they realise how, endless noobs or new players aren't going to literally turn on lunar rifts, get a brightshade helmet extremely early and then just never have to worry about darkness ever again? Oh and now the helm can't even break right? What the actual hell. Should we just get invincible mode as a world setting at this point?

Yeah I know you can just turn night off altogether in world settings but you actually miss out on a TON of opportunities, mechanics and progression if you do this. Also who actually ever does this except mega noobs. 

It's honestly less so the skill trees and more so bizarre changes like this that have me worried with the games direction..

Oh forgot to mention in either post! Regardless of how I feel about skill trees why on earth did they start them now...? Where is the third rift update?? Where is everything tying together what we've been told to just accept as part of a bigger picture for now?? There is a ton of discontent on the forums lately because of so many updates lately that start something and never finish it. We are told that things will be revisited and finished but we're still waiting on the ocean to not be so bland, rifts to make more sense and so much more. Why start these skill trees now? Finish the other stuff first klei seriously. This is also far more worrying to me than the existence of skill trees. It's going to create way more discontent and unhappiness with players and the forums. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by GelatinousCube

[finn from human]

7 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Like literally just carry around a single brightshade helm once you can get them and darkness is no longer a mechanic. Just pop it on and afk during night if you want, zero danger.

To clarify, the Brightshade Helm simply directly prevents Charlie from attacking you, it doesn't give off actual light. In other words, by the game's standards, you are still in total darkness, and your sanity is still draining like you're in darkness and will likely be empty by the time the night is over. This doesn't replace the Enlightened Crown! It's more for flavor than anything else imo.

Edited July 11, 2023 by sylvia wander o

[GelatinousCube]

Just now, sylvia wander o said:

To clarify, the Brightshade Helm simply directly prevents Charlie from attacking you, it doesn't give off actual light. In other words, by the game's standards, you are still in total darkness, and your sanity is still draining like you're in darkness and will likely be empty by the time the night is over. This doesn't replace the Enlightened Crown! It's more for flavor than anything else imo.

Thanks for the clarification and yeah that isn't as strong but I still hate this change and think it's extremely unnecessary. Light is what protects from Charlie, I'd almost rather it did give off a little light even though that's even more overpowered and stupid because at least it would make more sense. I just don't get it and hope it's removed. 

[gamehun20]

2 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

What does the hard hat actually do? Does the carved cane have durability? The treeguard idol sounds really cool if it does what I think/have read on this thread. The tail slam sounds a bit too wild though? 

The hard hat is a cheap helmet with 70% protection or something like to that degree. The carved cane has durability. The tree guard idol when lit near a few trees spawns 2 tree guards per lighting. The beaver tail slam is basically bearger ground pound so it breaks and up roots.

[Neu7ral]

This damage is so mean lmao I love Lunar Aligned.

[Creatorofswamps]

1 minute ago, Neu7ral said:

This damage is so mean lmao I love Lunar Aligned.

They overdid it

[Captain_Rage]

9 hours ago, sylvia wander o said:

To clarify, the Brightshade Helm simply directly prevents Charlie from attacking you, it doesn't give off actual light. In other words, by the game's standards, you are still in total darkness, and your sanity is still draining like you're in darkness and will likely be empty by the time the night is over. This doesn't replace the Enlightened Crown! It's more for flavor than anything else imo.

If this means you will still go insane fast and Shadow Creatures will come after you while standing in the darkness it makes for a very strange change. Plus it makes Winona's perk even more redundant. Not sure where the developers are going with this one. xd

[Neu7ral]

To be honest I'm quite happy with the changes we are getting, endgame items now actually feel endgame items and I feel now compelled to enter in that state, items are slowly being more rewarding (Charlie Immunity and Insanity Aura Negation) and it's pretty cool, this is how I want to feel after reaching endgame, that I am stupid unstoptable, wish more endgame items that are as broken as they are and get more challenges in the future.

I really liked Dreadstone Armor due to his unicy, now I really love both aligned armors because of it.

[finn from human]

5 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Plus it makes Winona's perk even more redundant.

Winona having a free hit from Charlie is something inherent to her from day 1 while Brightshade Helmets are locked behind two bosses and a whole many-hour questline. I don't think it makes something redundant for there to be a similar perk applied to an item available way way later in the game.

[NightfallsCurse]

These better not ruin the characters or I'm gonna be upset

[mime man]

wha I thought ok I guess I might be playing Woodie again

 

wow, one of Wormwood's skills is that he's passive to butterflies

what can I do with this?

Edited July 13, 2023 by mime man

[Creatorofswamps]

On 7/11/2023 at 11:35 PM, sylvia wander o said:

Winona having a free hit from Charlie is something inherent to her from day 1 while Brightshade Helmets are locked behind two bosses and a whole many-hour questline. I don't think it makes something redundant for there to be a similar perk applied to an item available way way later in the game.

Honestly, after this update, I want klei to remove the possibility of activating portals ahead of time. The armor has become so op that it completely and irrevocably violates the original game before killing the final boss. Although, to be honest, it breaks the balance anyway, but that's just my opinion

[mime man]

that's so true

[Dextops]

3 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

Honestly, after this update, I want klei to remove the possibility of activating portals ahead of time. The armor has become so op that it completely and irrevocably violates the original game before killing the final boss. Although, to be honest, it breaks the balance anyway, but that's just my opinion

You can also turn off hunger and health and so so much more in world settings. Rifts are the least of anyone’s concerns 

[Creatorofswamps]

9 minutes ago, Dextops said:

You can also turn off hunger and health and so so much more in world settings. Rifts are the least of anyone’s concerns 

You're right but. It's one thing to turn off something in order to cheat the game, another is to turn on an extremely interesting new content that adds additional features to the beginning of the game

[GelatinousCube]

On 7/10/2023 at 1:02 PM, ScyanLight said:

While a lot of people are scared and don't like theese skill trees i think theyre great since everyone had a rework so making a rework part two would be a waste of time, so instead the skill trees are added to revamp character that need some love without making another rework and animated short, i think the skill trees they added so far are great!  They give more replayability and reward the players for surviving for longer just like in the singleplayer version surviving for longer unlocked cool characters! 

Not disagreeing with anything else you've said necessarily but c'mon.. the skill trees ARE reworks. Like they just straight up are. Whether you like them or not they are 100% reworks/refreshes. Whether they're small or big ones or whatever they're reworks.