Are we getting Moonquay-ed ?

[Notecja]

I personally prefer better developed update than nerf uncomfortable mechanics to the point where they can be ignored. I really wish that Klei devs on current update could have more time to better polish stuff... give beta more time please, I can enjoy just skins update on main branch or just wait for everything being finished. Current state of that update is sort of imcomplete. The earthquakes were a lot discussed I think I don't have much to add. What I think about acid rains... They could be mixed with normal rain, like one day just normal rain, other rain would be acid, and then another time could be both of them. Also add more interactions to world - make bunnymen hide or go rabbid, maybe respawn some stalagmites not on just ponds but also in stalagmite biome which is currently one of most boring biomes? There are spiders to interact as well, how about acid spitting spider? Sounds damn nasty.

And... so far we are Moonquayed.

[Mysterious box]

45 minutes ago, Notecja said:

how about acid spitting spider? Sounds damn nasty.

Wow this actually sounds like a really cool idea imagine if it has super low damage to your hp but it's attacks shred your gears durability instead.

[cybers2001]

11 hours ago, The Box said:

I think the biggest problem of monkey raids is that they pop up at a random direction, and they row to you WAY too fast. If you are using a cannon like they expect you to, you wouldn't know which direction you should aim at, and by then their boat would be already in your face.

Also even if you have practiced enough to aim at the correct direction, the range of the cannon is laughably short, so even if you strike a hit, the momentum of the pirate's boat would still crash on to you, so good luck trying to patch that hole and waiting it to be popped off again by the shadow hands at night.

I think moreso, the balance is around the idea of there being at least two players on the boat. If one person is sailing while the other is gunning, it would make much more sense.

[Pticman]

Honestly I am fine with the current beta. Changes to the boulders and acid rain were a little bit lazy, but they solved a couple of problems without creating new ones, which is decent solution for a short period of time giving developers more time to complete them in the future (I hope??). Also, increasing the difficulty of the game/adding new challenges should always be accompanied with rewards, and because they are not yet there (like really, 4 crafts only 1 is decent?) , I don't see the point of making these mechanics super challenging.

[ADM]

1 hour ago, Pticman said:

Honestly I am fine with the current beta. Changes to the boulders and acid rain were a little bit lazy, but they solved a couple of problems without creating new ones, which is decent solution for a short period of time giving developers more time to complete them in the future (I hope??). Also, increasing the difficulty of the game/adding new challenges should always be accompanied with rewards, and because they are not yet there (like really, 4 crafts only 1 is decent?) , I don't see the point of making these mechanics super challenging.

True all the line yes, just as far as I consider the update history of the game in the many last years I don't count too many pure difficult additions. I can recall of Rockjaws (loving them), Antlion, kinda the Monkey Raids too. The last rift updates quite go toward inserting more difficulty as well but of a new kind being world evolutions which could be great in the end, after more tweaks. In other updates of RoT, ANR, updates were usually the 'go for it' difficulty which I don't consider to count much since it's static, but in all of these updates there is these rewards to upgrade the player inventory and buildings, and when it's not that directly it's an historic of thousands of generally positive tweaks / optimisations that make the game for sure better but also ease up the experience with such an accumulation.

And many wouldn't want it any other way for all the pros but retrospectively I think a bit more direct difficulty wouldn't hurt anymore, it will also come with good loot / who knows what, especially if they can manage to make some of it the way they're doing with rifts, it sounds promising, but they got to figure how to insert them the right way(s, there's multiple solutions most likely)

[MidasHow]

The life cycle of DST updates:
1. Klei releases a content that makes the game a little bit harder

2. There are tons of threads on forums about the update ruining megabasing, or idk, being too hard

3. Klei decides to nerf the systems to the point, that they can as well don't exist. (Like nerfing the spawn rate of Monkey Pirate Raids, you have to actively look for them, to even find them)

4. The other part of the community complains that the nerfs where to harsh

5. Nothing is done about it, Klei decides to do it safe and keep the systems nerfed

6. Update needs more polishing, but it's released anyway to keep the schedule

7. Go back to point 1.

 

[. . .]

Are we getting Moonquay-ed? Well, yes we are getting Moonquay-ed.

[nimzowitsch10]

there's like 0 substance to this update and klei doesn't seem like they're gonna listen to any suggestions, yeah a bit like moon quay. This game is getting more boring and more tedious with each update.

[abrocator]

The biggest design flaws with Moon Quay:

1. Getting punished for beating raids with cursed trinkets
2. Moon Quay being able to spawn in the proximity of Crab King, hence (hilarious) random raids in the middle of fighting a tedious boss that has a freeze attack and self-healing powers

About number one: this mechanic doesn’t gel well with the staple DST “punishment”, i.e. a punishment for newbies but an opportunity for experienced players (example: Krampus, tree guards). What’s the opportunity? You get a movement boost if you walk for a while… out in the Ocean? (Almost like a repeat of Wilbur in archipelago game, except he had the useful prime ape affinity.) You escape downsides like that of Woodie? Meh. Most of the time you’re just getting punished for killing pirates who preyed upon you.

And so far it’s a bit samey with this Beta: you get punished but there are few opportunities to turn things in your favor.

Because challenges in DST that are good should be:

1. Punishments for something stupid (killing too many wabbits/wirds) that you Big Brain into something like Krampus farm
2. Possibly tedious challenges that you can eventually overcome (a lot of the early game)
3. Optional challenges that you need to seek out (FW) but that you get rewards for

So really the biggest flaw with Moon Quay is that there is no genius way to turn cursed trinkets into something that you want, effectively turning the tables on the game.

(There’s also the more minor flaw of the Moon Quay just giving you unique goodies for free through the portal. Just got to burn done some pirate homes is all. Why care about pirate raids outside of the captain hat?)

And yeah, I’m not seeing anything like that in this Beta as well. But at least there weren’t any dead-end ideas like cursed trinkets. (Back during Moon Quay I thought, oooh, I bet the devs are going to expand on those cursed trinkets and make them useful and fleshed out and and… except no?)

[lenship2]

17 minutes ago, abrocator said:

So really the biggest flaw with Moon Quay is that there is no genius way to turn cursed trinkets into something that you want, effectively turning the tables on the game.

maybe you could be able to give the cursed trinkets to some type of mob like pigmen for some sort of silly effect (wild boars dst real!!!!!)

[GelatinousCube]

13 hours ago, ADM said:

Also I lied in my post now that I think of it... there was one thing done toward the Moon Quay update post the beta and it was to make old items stored within the stash despawn so you can just loose important stuff to win more Cutless out of it epic win.

I still can't believe they legitimately made this change.. 

People were seriously worried where all their stolen loot was going and if it was retrievable and we were basically told, fret not it'll all be in the loot stash. 

Then a few updates later they do this? Making it possible for literal irreplaceable or extremely valuable items to just disappear forever if stolen by Monkeys. 

This single change alone more than anything else is what was ultimately the main reason I ended up turning the raids off altogether. 

Still can't understand this awful change.

[Spino43]

4 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

I still can't believe they legitimately made this change.. 

People were seriously worried where all their stolen loot was going and if it was retrievable and we were basically told, fret not it'll all be in the loot stash. 

Then a few updates later they do this? Making it possible for literal irreplaceable or extremely valuable items to just disappear forever if stolen by Monkeys. 

This single change alone more than anything else is what was ultimately the main reason I ended up turning the raids off altogether. 

Still can't understand this awful change.

There were issues about the stash having too many items for some reason which can cause massive game lag, or straight up crashed the game.

I can see why they do this, but not a good way to fix it.

[Frashaw27]

18 hours ago, Cassielu said:

What about Farming, Sailing, Mob ecological behavior, Ocean fishing and Biome mechanism? These are better, more interesting, deeper contents of the game, some of which have been around since the beginning of this game until moon quay ripped ugly scars in them.

I mean, I understand what you're going for but I feel docks are some of the most impactful content this game has ever seen, because it simply allows you to fix the one thing you never were able to before, world land gen. In the game you generally have some options if you get bad world gen like killing the same mactusk instead of the same 4, getting monkey tails from the moon quay to increase the number of reeds, plant twiggy trees if you ever run low on saplings, these kind of problems maybe be tedious to circumvent, but you still could. But if your land just didn't spawn right then you were effectively SoL. No matter how long you played, how long you survived, how long you thrived, you were still limited by the deck the game gave you, which could be really limited if the game wanted to shaft you. So when docks came in, I saw them as revolutionary as it finally allowed to have some method of "fixing" bad world gen like random holes in the middle of biomes and the like. While other mechanics feel more deep, docks certainly provide that level of evolution in building I felt opened up a whole new avenue to explore, a whole new world that you can customize. While I may appreciate things like bigger boats, an in depth fishing mechanics, and complex mob behaviors between factions, being able to change something you have no literally no control over before is equally as game changing imo.

 

Anyways, onto this update, I feel this update was fine. While I will be appreciating my new main Maxwell weapon, this update was about a b tier in terms of content. All the designs looked cool, I even don't mind charlie's appearance, but I feel the content was only lacking because they didn't expand on it. I therorize that the last two updates where more "setting the ground" type updates from a developing stand point, less about making good ideas and more making sure everything works and doesn't crash. I'm not saying I don't find the content fun or interesting, it just all seems very basic. I also feel like there was less work put into this one, or less work was put into the wrong areas. Specifically, the mask. While others may lament the missing the problems the mask came with, I feel like that ate up so much dev time for some odd reason, because when comparing the two updates, the shadows rifts had much less work put into them then post lunar rifts. While I don't remember if the shovel was in before hand, the new additions of the pickaxe-hammer and the shovel-hoe combo were added post release and the brightshade staff hitting multiple targets was also added post release. In comparison the void armor became slightly stronger with acid rain protection? I do feel like most of this was because of the scrap notebook, being a more essential core part of the game, but I feel it was a bit disingenuous because it took away a probable significant portion of dev time away from the update (since let's be honest, that scrap book was probably a much higher priority due to being their inherent solution to the game's vague ways, which I don't blame them for fixing that), I feel the better route would've been to make this update slot into a QoL where they had more time to focus on each part individually, but I guess with Klei-fest, they kinda had their hands tied. I feel like this update was meh/fine because there were two big ideas that were being focused on with this update, and the content one was not the gamble they decided to invest all their time into. A respectable decision, but I'm a bit miffed the rifts were a sacrifice for it.

I do hope there will be a "day of release" update like there was for Reap What You Sow which added the wormwood compatibilities, but I'm not getting my hopes high. Even if they were going to do an update like that, unless they were already cooking up a solution like pillars, I don't see them getting all the assets and code together within the time of last update and release.

[Antynomity]

Yes we are

[Memetan]

I feel more like this:

And this is without adding acid bats or the current head problems that they added with the last patch.

For me is just the "Now you can sit" update

[GelatinousCube]

6 hours ago, Spino43 said:

There were issues about the stash having too many items for some reason which can cause massive game lag, or straight up crashed the game.

I can see why they do this, but not a good way to fix it.

I get that but they could've had extra items after the limit pop out and sit on the ground nearby or something. Any solution other than permanent deletion of items would've been nice.

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, Spino43 said:

I can see why they do this, but not a good way to fix it.

Moonquay and this beta in a nutshell.

16 hours ago, abrocator said:

So really the biggest flaw with Moon Quay is that there is no genius way to turn cursed trinkets into something that you want, effectively turning the tables on the game.

Ideally this shouldn't have had to happen it should rightfully be a punishment but it should be more convenient to get rid of them as I've mentioned in the past as well as not having a 100% drop rate. Nor taking up the inventory space for that matter.

 

16 hours ago, abrocator said:

And yeah, I’m not seeing anything like that in this Beta as well. But at least there weren’t any dead-end ideas like cursed trinkets. (Back during Moon Quay I thought, oooh, I bet the devs are going to expand on those cursed trinkets and make them useful and fleshed out and and… except n

I consider acid rain and boulders dead mechanics because they were gutted instead of fixed.

[bloopah]

22 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Wow this actually sounds like a really cool idea imagine if it has super low damage to your hp but it's attacks shred your gears durability instead.

Acid Rain has so much potential that is barely used beyond making Batilisks supercharged and making Nitre more reliably renewable. I would like to see more changes, like Bunnymen confusing smells to the point of attacking anyone that doesn't carry meat, Rock Lobster's shells getting softer or dissolving to "control" their population, the aformentioned Acid Spitters that shred armor, or anything from the Lunar Grotto being affected.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Nor taking up the inventory space for that matter.

As a compromise, you could have the Accursed Trinkets slowly pile up on the UI, with any Trinkets past 10 being put in the inventory, like this:

[abrocator]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Ideally this shouldn't have had to happen it should rightfully be a punishment

Rightfully. Rightfully what? What’s rightful about it?

[Yuuko]

34 minutes ago, bloopah said:

 

As a compromise, you could have the Accursed Trinkets slowly pile up on the UI, with any Trinkets past 10 being put in the inventory, like this:

Ideally I think the whole cursed trinket stacking thing could be jettisoned entirely.  Make the curse binary, and make getting the curse a consequence of a player's actions rather than something that just happens.  Getting the curse for fighting off monkeys that attack you was never a good idea.  Either getting it needs to be changed to be more deliberate, or having / clearing it needs to be more accessible.

[hhh2]

On 6/13/2023 at 2:04 PM, Gashzer said:

The entire game is just repeating tasks.... atleast make some tasks harder than other tasks 

This statement can be applied to life.

I wake up, I eat breakfast, I read the news, I go work, I work, I drive home, I make dinner, I post on Klei forums, I breath and I sleep. Every day is the same. Every day.

[Notecja]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Ideally I think the whole cursed trinket stacking thing could be jettisoned entirely.  Make the curse binary, and make getting the curse a consequence of a player's actions rather than something that just happens.  Getting the curse for fighting off monkeys that attack you was never a good idea.  Either getting it needs to be changed to be more deliberate, or having / clearing it needs to be more accessible.

Honestly I would prefer Wonkey more fun to play. Yes, still not comfortable as it's a curse, but more flavour... Simpliest would be to bring ability to throw manure or other things, but I am sure there are more creative things to add... dunno aybe let him to climb on trees/masts for more view around? And skins... make him more like a proper character. I want white snowy monke.

[gamehun20]

2 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Honestly I would prefer Wonkey more fun to play. Yes, still not comfortable as it's a curse, but more flavour... Simpliest would be to bring ability to throw manure or other things, but I am sure there are more creative things to add... dunno aybe let him to climb on trees/masts for more view around? And skins... make him more like a proper character. I want white snowy monke.

I kinda like the climbing sails if we are not getting crow nests this could be neat also i don't think wonkey has a head skin slot so skins sets would be interesting to say the least could also hire a crew of powder monkeys to help sail

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Ideally I think the whole cursed trinket stacking thing could be jettisoned entirely.  Make the curse binary, and make getting the curse a consequence of a player's actions rather than something that just happens.  Getting the curse for fighting off monkeys that attack you was never a good idea.  Either getting it needs to be changed to be more deliberate, or having / clearing it needs to be more accessible.

For me the very first original Wonkey Curse was just a “little” too hard, I ended up stuck playing as that Monkey for 5+ real world hours, sure maybe you can chalk it up to first time experience but it was just overall brutal- ESPECIALLY As Wendy Who can easily obtain way way more than 10 necklaces in like 5 seconds.

I think I had a total of 28? Lol.. that’s 3 inventory slots of cursed necklaces and ALOT of trading with monkey queen to revert back hence the 5hrs stuck as Wonkey.

It was far too punishing, but the way it is now- it’s not punishing Enough… all a player has to do is die and respawn using a Meat Effigy, TouchStone, Telltale Heart, Florid Portal ETC..

The necklaces just get dumped in whatever obscure location you left them (yes I’ve used this to troll my friends by hiding piles of them behind trees or bushes for them to walk by and get cursed.)

It’s almost like Klei ONLY designs this game from a Development perspective when no one at Klei actually cares to play it from a Gamers Perspective- So they can only see things through Rose-Tinted glasses. But I guarantee you if the devs fell in love with playing the game rather than just developing for it we would see a lot of “not so fun” things be changed to be more fun.

Im fine with trinkets stacking to 10, but 10 should’ve probably been the Maximum, They should’ve also remained bind to the player persisting even throughout death- This solves two problems:

1- Easy removal of something that is supposed to be a “curse”

2- Hiding hundreds of thousands of “Wonkey Bombs” all over the map intentionally to troll anyone who walks past your dropped trinkets.

 

[Well-met]

Literally just remove the cursed trinket magnet and it would be fair and tolerable. You pick it up, its your fault.