Maxwell Refresh Beta Open!

[ShadowDuelist]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I love the magician box/chest thing (minus shadow chester), although I wish other characters were able to use the hat. Would be cool to have everyone with one and be able to exchange items from across the map, but I also understand why it's locked behind Maxwell.

I think that is why they added shadow chester, so people can use the perk in a mobile way too. I think this is mostly to collect and someone else picks up at base, or gives you items you may need from afar, and since they can't move aorund with the hat, they would use Chester. It's meant to be a team perk I believe.

The nightmare prison is by far the best perk Maxwell got so far, its useful throughout the whole game and scales great as you progress. I hope it stays as it is.

I have a couple of suggestions:
 

• The workers definitely need to last longer. 
• Please allow the servants to till farmland when they were placed on top of unused farmland.
• Give Maxwell some perk related to dark swords and night armor. They were always his signature weapon and armor, and only Wanda has perks related to them. It doesn't have to be "more damage", maybe reduced sanity when worn, reduced fuel cost to craft, or reduced durability usage when he wields/wears them, anything would do. It would make sense from a lore stand point that he is somewhat more efficient with them than the average Wilson.
• Workers placed near fish shoals could also try to fish (to be in line with the new things in the game)

Edited November 3, 2022 by ShadowDuelist

[Kommu]

Ma ideas:
1) Make the Shadows be able to follow you, not just work on a specific radius. This makes sense for the Shadow Duelists for example, but for the others ones it kinda limits them WAY MORE than before. To avoid this from being overpowered, make them dissappear after a set amount of time, rather than after not having any tasks left to do on sight. I'm thinking maybe like 2 - 3 minutes of lifespan would be nice? I dunno, up for debate.
2) The idea of being able to access Chester 24/7 through a Top Hat sounds EXTREMELLY interesting, but... What practicality does it serves if we can literally hold the Eyebone instead? I guess this can be used to abuse Chester's extra slots on dangerous zones like DFly Desert, but... Eh?
I was thinking of making it be able to access ANY chest with a new crafting recipe Maxwell receives, which would kind of spawn some sort of shadow aura under the chest it's applied on. THIS can be practical, allowing Maxwell to have basically 2 chesters!
3) This might be because of the Beta, but the Duelists attack speed and path-finding are outrageously bad. If it's because of the beta, then forget about this, but if it works like this because it's intended to... Please buff it's abilities to walk and attack at least a bit.

And last but not least;
4) This is just in case the idea of Chester or the Chests I just mentioned is scrapped; Allow MAXWELL ITSELF to teleport using a Top Hat. Give it a super punishing downside, like a lot of sanity drain, or hunger lost in the way, but this would allow Maxwell, the most fragile character in the game (Not counting Wes) to escape dangerous situations and avoid them entirelly. 
I know, I know, Wortox can do this, and Wanda also has this at her disposal, but allowing Maxwell to just take care of himself escaping of danger, would not only be lore accurate, but would also give him some extra niches at exploring, foraging and even combat if you think about it! I dunno, I thought this idea was cool.

[Evelo]

3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

also really sad that wormwood now won't get the root chest.

There is a possibility our favorite tree buddy still can!

[Daniel14676]

I wish the workers would harvest items (like grass and such). Though I might not be thinking that through enough, still I mean if there are items you don't want to harvest, just don't put your worker down at that location, right?

[Vixen Doe]

super excited for this update, but i have to say i'm curious...

is maxwell missing his rose in the title screen art intentional?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

shadow tillers are a must

[cybers2001]

I dunno why everyone wants servants following maxwell around. Them sticking to a radius to chop/mine AND pick up the loot is a huge buff imo. I always hated that servants would stop doing whatever they are in the middle of doing to follow me just because I’m picking up after their mess. I also hated that, because they were so tethered to Maxwell, it was redundant to have more than 2 of them, since they always ended up going for the same rocks and trees.  
  
Haven’t tested it yet, but if they could last long enough to fully clear an area AND move their storage to maxwell’s shared storage system, I would probably put him back in my top 3.

Edited November 3, 2022 by cybers2001

[maradyne]

1 hour ago, RatherRabbit said:

I dislike having to stop to refuel the Codex instead of it just taking it out of my inventory, it feels like more unnecessary fiddling.

It would be nice if it took fuel out of your inc when empty.

 

25 minutes ago, Kommu said:

Allow MAXWELL ITSELF to teleport using a Top Hat

And for my next trick, I'll make myself...disappear!

(It actually sounds like a great idea.)

[OrangeJacketDud]

This looks good, and I see how they want to upgrade him, but the current version is just an ALMOST complete nerf of maxwell

Pros:
Codex Umbra you don't have to drop it anymore (It was funny to steal the book though)
You have an easier menu to use your shadow spells from
Your top hat is essentially a public transporter and can easily transfer items from one place to another if another person has access to it.
Servants and Duelists don't require tools or doesn't require as much nightmare fuel, as it only uses 5% fuel from your book
Maxwell's Shadow Spells are pretty good, Shadow Trap allows a way to trap mobs from running away or chasing you, I haven't used shadow sneak when I tried but it's probably alright, although there should be a few more shadow spells (Such as ones that buff other teammates, such as Buff Spell seen in the Wolfgang short, as seen from another comment)

Cons:
Servants and Duelists are locked to one area and don't follow you anymore
Shadows also expire after awhile
You can't max your sanity extremely low anymore for long periods of time
Duelists (From looking at other comments) are still bad, they still have their low health, damage, and poor kiting
Shadow Chester kind of got nerfed, in which now it's connected to Maxwell's Shadow Chest realm, it probably shouldn't have been connected as other players can steal from it, or fill it with other random stuff you don't want.

How to fix?
Should keep the servants back to their follower status and permanent, since being able to cap off your sanity as maxwell was pretty good to farm out nightmare fuel, they should also probably require more fuel from the book as otherwise it'd make them powerful
Make shadow chester not connected, it kinda makes it suck when using it with any maxwell player as you would already have the 4 extra slots early and it would just be a waste of chest space.
Upgrade duelists to be better, or to give them armor
Add more uses to the book with shadows, as Maxwell is the king of this world and still has access to the book, so he should be doing a few more things than shadow clones and only 2 traps
Oh, and have him help his other survivors, that's a pretty important for a rework to DST as he has the potential to be a powerful buffer.

I do thank Klei for letting us play this and allow us to suggest changes to actually make maxwell balanced and helpful to other players.

36 minutes ago, Kommu said:

 Allow MAXWELL ITSELF to teleport using a Top Hat. 

This is really funny but would also be a really interesting ability for maxwell

[ShadowDuelist]

35 minutes ago, Kommu said:

The idea of being able to access Chester 24/7 through a Top Hat sounds EXTREMELLY interesting, but... What practicality does it serves if we can literally hold the Eyebone instead? I guess this can be used to abuse Chester's extra slots on dangerous zones like DFly Desert, but... Eh?

It's not meant for Maxwell, I believe it's meant for everyone else to be able to teleport back and forth items with the base. Maxwell can make the cabinet at the base and since other players can't access it with the Hat, they could still use the perk through Shadow Chester.

EG: you are collecting stacks and stacks of stone from bearger's work, and someone else allocates them at base just as you collect, making the job faster and not requiring as much storage. 

[catboybread]

My take is please for the love of god find a balanced way to make the shadow guys follow you around again

[Zeklo]

Yeah, the shadow storage isn't meant to be like a Piggy Bank from Terraria. It's essentially the Rooted Chest from Hamlet. It doesn't exist to grant even more extra slots, it's just intended to quickly move certain items or keep certain ones easily accessible when moving around.

I've said it before, but I LOVE when characters introduce a new building for the 'communal base'. It gives it more personality.

There's definitely some number tweaks that could be had, but I love the forge-like spells! Super fun.

[edulopes]

On my opinon, Shadow duelists still feels too frail, and they do little damage, making them useless for any Boss figths that should be te priority of the rework, making them useful,

The Shadow servants should last longer or indefinitelly, but there is a catch, they should be able to follow Maxwell and be turned on and off and with the Codex umbra be sellected the type of work (Dig, axe, pickaxe, and gatter)

For me the top hat And the stage, great, but good Idea to have an New type of slot chester on my opinon

Matheu New type of shadows as some people already discussed on the post

Pillars feels Strange, not good not bad Just there

The trap feels bad for me, pânic is Just bad on my eyes that Just makes the kitting patterns bad And imprevisible

The top hat (FOR MAXWELL ONLY) should have the Tam o shanter sanity regen or having an sanity buff big enough to make Maxwell recovery his 20 sanity regen from dont starve solo, if his shadows now are close from him former self 

 

 

[Daniel14676]

I think making the worker stack items before trying to give them to you or after doing everything else is a good idea. Not sure how hard to implement though.

[Ev1l]

Thoughts about the rework.

1- Codex Umbra: a return to roots is really cool for this character, the way it was handled before was a bit cost intensive, especially for duelists who couldn't live long enough.

 

2- Servants: at first I thought they worked like pikmin, you created them in an area, they did their task until you assigned them to do something else. A shock was to discover you did not had the option to make them follow you, I recognise the nerf was needed in exchange for the materials that are't required anymore, However, these were sure a bit overdone. The ability to realocate them would be ideal as they don't seem to last very long anyways.

 

3- duelists: same old duelists as before for cheaper, I think it was already stated how weak they are, and they seem to be unchanged. Although I feel the need to refrain from sugesting a buff seeing how cheap they are now, Maxwell is not the kind of character you want to see in the frontline due to his low health. With that in mind, I would suggest a bit more of health so they stop dying from a single hit.

 

4- Shadow prison: Although I hate to admit it... it needs a nerf to it's duration, otherwise bosses become a nuinsance with other players.

 

5- shadow sneak: I'll abstain talking too much about this one as I do not understand the intent behind it, however it is really underpowered.

 

6- Magic boxes: These are the ones that don't need to be tweaked besides the obvious bugs and crashes. Althought as @Kommu mentioned the idea of maxwell being able to travel between those seems more than logical and fun.

 

All in all, a promising beta for the grumpy king, we'll just see how it goes.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Ev1l

[Nikki Darks]

Ok, so, time for some opinions.

Firstly, the shadows don't last as long as they should, I'd probably double their current duration and it'd be golden!

The sneak trap that panics enemies is so pointless when you have the pillar trap that just straight up immobilizes them.

And now my biggest gripe with this refresh... Why the hecc does the Codex Umbra have durability (yes I  know it doesn't break at 0%).

If you're going to nerf the shadow workers at least don't nerf the book with them.

The book would've been perfectly fine with no durability on it.

The box/top hat/shadow chester are just amazing, I love that Maxwell can pull stuff out of a top hat.

Das it from me.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Duelists are absolutely useless still, just give them more health.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Nikki Darks
Forgot to add something

[guywithgreenshades]

will there be any changes to the duelists like adding health or options to add armor?

[maeslay]

I expected this update to be such a huge nerf because of how people talked about it here but it’s actually so good!! I might actually play maxwell now he feels so much more fun to play 

[Kommu]

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

It's not meant for Maxwell, I believe it's meant for everyone else to be able to teleport back and forth items with the base. Maxwell can make the cabinet at the base and since other players can't access it with the Hat, they could still use the perk through Shadow Chester.

I assume it saves time, but then, what's the point of getting a Beefalo, upgrading WX-78 to max Speed, allowing Wolfgang to carry Piggybacks, if all of that is entirelly nullified by a single character who can save all the travel by 100%? I believe every character should be worked around being able to survive by their own hands, while having perks that allow them to cooperate with other survivors, not being entirelly based around Coop, because then you get characters like Warly.
Webber follows this rule pretty much toe-to-toe, while he's one of the most Single-Player-able characters of the cast, he can still use his ability to farm a nice couple of stacks of Monster Meat, for meatballs and pierogi, Silk, for clothing or weaponry, and Glands to be able to revive without the need of wasting Touch-Stones, and also being able to be a great Boss buster due to healing spiders. (Seriously, how have healing spiders not been nerfed yet? get 10 of them and Dragonfly becomes a joke).

Maxwell on the current state of the Beta lost a lot of control of his shadow slaves, so if that's not gonna get renewed, we might as well get something else making him worth picking.
But now the more I think about it, having the ability to have 2 chesters would kind of remove Walter's charm of being a storage character, so I think I agree more that this should be kept as a niche coop-thing Maxwell can do...

[JesseB_Klei]

4 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

bug: putting acorn into max hat, and then accessing shadow chest disconnected me from server btw

3 hours ago, skile said:

I have a similar problem, whenever I try opening the shadow box, game crashes.

also for some reason it crashed when my friend tried changing the skin of chester, but perhaps it was just a coincidence.

2 hours ago, Daniel14676 said:

Glitch: If you wormhole with a shadow worker summoned they will come with you. (this doesn't make sense, because they aren't following you)

These have been fixed internally and will be out in the next hotfix. Please remember to post bugs on the tracker at https://forums.kleientertainment.com/klei-bug-tracker/dont-starve-together-beta-branch/ so that it is easier to find!

 

[Jestymun]

The shadow workers are super useful for mining salt since they walk on water and hand you the resources. It's nice not having to try to navigate between the rocks or use a lazy forager to pick up the salt. I honestly prefer the workers not following you forever since it can be annoying when they mine/chop things while you aren't actively going for resources, granted I didn't play Maxwell much before now so I don't have much experience dealing with it. Also the fact that the workers only require nightmare fuel and are so cheap and quick is really nice in early game in pubs where flint can be an absolute pain to find. I think they could last a bit longer but they are so inexpensive and on demand I'm honestly fine with it. The main thing I would want from them is to be able to pick resources like twigs, grass, maybe figs and berries?

The duelists being spamable and cheap makes them useful enough compared to before. They aren't great at killing bosses but most companions aren't and they probably shouldn't be. I could see them being useful for early hound waves, spiders (especially lunging ones), and maybe ewecuses. Anything with single target attacks and either low damage or high attack period.

Shadow sneak is an interesting and useful spell, but I think the name is pretty misleading. It should probably be renamed to shadow spook or shadow scare or something more indicative of what it does. Placing a trap to send enemies into a panic in an aoe is very nice. I could see it being great for getting hordes of splumonkeys or hounds or beefalo or what have you off of your tail. It could also probably be used to cancel Klaus's spells by panicing his deer, haven't tried it though.

Shadow prison looks very good. It's not as good as shadow sneak at getting chasing mobs off of you since it takes a while to cast and you have to catch the enemy in the aoe or it's wasted where you could just lead them to your already set up shadow sneak trap, so both still have a niche. It doesn't stop bosses from hitting you, you still have to kite their attacks if you want to melee them. Its duration is relatively short but still useful so it doesn't seem likely to completely break a boss fight. 

The shadow tophat/chester/box is very cool. I know a lot of people seem to dislike the idea of player theft between maxwells and, well whoever has shadow chester, but the utility is super worth it in my opionion. The shared inventory being linked to shadow chester allows players to swap most items anywhere in the same shard, kind of acting as a pseudo top hat accesible to non maxwells. The chester isn't any better for teleporting items to your base than the box. The thing that makes it cool is that it's mobile for other players. You can give one ally (or group of allies) supplies on the go anywhere even if they aren't by a box you happened to put down. You can't do that with the box unless you've put them absolutely everywhere. It wouldn't matter if every player could use the hat, but they can't, and this feels like a decent medium. The griefing concerns seem pretty inconsequential. Chester is a luxury and a tool. There's only one and just because you can hog it doesn't mean it's just a personal extra backpack for 1 player per server, that's boring and counter intuitive for a cooperative multiplayer game. Maxwell's shadow tophat is also more than just 11 extra inventory slots. It's far more useful and interesting with the shared inventory, especially with shadow chester involved.

Overall seems like a cool rework. 

I also don't see the issue with the codex having durability? It just seems like the more convenient and logical step to take when changing the codex from a crafting station to a spellbook. Seems like the easiest way to make spells cost less than 1 nightmare fuel. The spell casting wheel is much quicker and less obtuse than crafting especially for the kinds of spells they added. I'm pretty happy with how it works.

[GNGR bred boi]

I think that Maxwell should be more efficient with magic items durability wise / damage / usage etc, or maybe just have tier 1 magic unlocked kind of like Wickerbottom having tier 1 science. 

It would be nice to get some more use out of something like the Firestaff or even the Nightlight and shed some light on some of the magic items that most players would consider useless. 

Everything else in the rework is actually a pretty good change and I can see myself playing Maxwell a lot more now. 

[Jestymun]

I also really like the idea some people have been throwing around that Maxwell could use shadow items/magic items/nightmare fuel better than other characters. It doesn't really matter to me how it happens, it'd just be a very cool detail.

[dzzydzzy]

This Beta release is the real "shadow sneak". Wasn't expecting it, never saw it coming! Pulled out of thin air!

[scrollup]

mid update, the new range feature is HORRIBLE, the health is still too low to be good for a character that has new and slightly improved combat capability's.

 

HOWEVER everything else is very well done