Wickerbottom possibly involved in a secret society? Willow working with Maxwell?

[Eggsterminator]

So...Spoilers for the new Wickerbottom rework, but I just had to discuss it.

Can we just talk about this secret room?! The eye symbol?! Is Wickerbottom possibly a part of some secret society? A cult? Or as many people speculated before, a witch of sorts?

Anyhow, The fact that she already appears to be aware of the existence of the Constant, knowledge and its creatures, is certainly interesting...

To be honest, I already speculated Willow would be behind this.

This on the other hand, is some juicy implication to see. This could suggest Willow was at some point involved with dissapearances of the other survivors...

 

Bonus: The Forlorn Doll Easter Egg (Which ironically or not, was the skin that appeared after Willow's rework...)

 

[SecretPizzaMan]

I wonder if that eye is connected to altar in some way. It looks similar enough.

Other people have pointed out that this eye could very well be referencing the shadow eye from the murals instead, which I think is more likely.

[sudoku]

I think she just investigates the paranormal, she only gets her powers from Maxwell so she wasnt learning magic on her own.

[Waoling]

Why would Willow work with Maxwell or the shadow anyway? They try to kill her when she was a ophan.

[sudoku]

1 minute ago, Waoling said:

Why would Willow work with Maxwell or the shadow anyway? They try to kill her when she was a ophan.

She went insane. Or at least i thought that was the implication at the end of her animated short. 

[Eggsterminator]

4 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Why would Willow work with Maxwell or the shadow anyway? They try to kill her when she was a ophan.

Perhaps she made a deal with him to not take her in like the others? A false security of sorts, It appears the shadows were out to get her since she was little, this could very likely be because of her supernatural abilities, and considering her past, It wouldn't be impossible, had she taken that bargain.

[mr. brj]

30 minutes ago, Eggsterminator said:

some secret society

Ever since the Webber short I have been having a similar thought. There are people that know of the Constant's existance, and they are all definitely being hunted down. Either by the Shadow Watcher (as it is the case for Maxwell, Charlie and Wanda), by Maxwell on the Throne (almost all survivors, including Wagstaff) or by Charlie (only Winona, who I assume to be the last "proper" witness of anything Constant related in the real world).

WX-78 and Walter seem to be the only ones that were not meant to be there. As for people like Mr. Witherstone and Webber's father, I believe they don't have enough clues to prove the Constant's existance, and Charlie doesn't seem to want anyone else coming there so she just leaves them be.

Now I have no idea whether any Wickerbottom quotes at least imply a familiarity with Wagstaff, so right now I'm assuming she managed to collect all those files on her own. They do seem like Maxwell's own drawings from the William Carter puzzles though, maybe Wickerbottom actually spied on Maxwell while he was trying to decipher the Codex Umbra in the very same library.

But maybe she is a part of a secret society that includes knowledgable people like Wagstaff. But I doubt we will get an answer on that until we find out how Codex Umbra ended up in the real world and how Wagstaff discovered the Constant's existance in the first place.

[minespatch]

The eye is also featured on the thulecite medallions.

[goblinball]

1 hour ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

 

I wonder if that eye is connected to altar in some way. It looks similar enough.

 

It could be related to alter or the shadow stuff. Both of them are frequently shown as an eye with 6 extending lines.

[GenomeSquirrel]

With the doors closed when Willow set the orphanage ablaze, I’m assuming Willow made a deal with Maxwell then, we learned most characters powers are Maxwell related, and she should not have survived what she did.

[Falkenpelz]

Okay guys, lean in, I got a bunch of theories incoming.

Spoiler

This short was a HUUUGE revelation about how Maxwell chose his targets for, well, constant abduction. We knew that he went for people who were desperate and easy to manipulate, but he didn't just put a bunch of people into the Constant for the lols. Most of the time, he was specificly going for those, who knew about shadow magic. For some reason, he wanted to get rid of any documentation or witnesses of it in his world. Wicker obviously knew something about the magic (the folder where she pulled put the sketches of the shadows and the hound from was labeled "San Francisco" btw, so these creatures were probably seen in San Fran by people) and Maxwell didn't approve of that, so he went for a handy solution: He put all of it into Wickers mind and her away in the Constant - now unaccessable for anyone but him, just in case he needs that knowledge again.

What did the other survivors know?

Wilson was doing some unorthodox experiments and maybe he had accidentally come to close to something Maxwell didn't want him to know.

Webber quite literally experienced a supernatural phenomenon on his own body.

Wes was not the intended victim, in his case Maxwell was after George Witherstone, who has a portrait of a frickin shadow watcher in his living room.

Wolfgang had seen Maxwell use magic.

Wendy was studying the occult and might have stumbled across shadow magic eventually. After all, Abigails flower is powered by fuel somehow.

Woodie had a bunch of weird curses on him and his axe.

For some reason, Maxwell never got Wagstaff although he knew the most. Interesting enough, he got a good bunch of Wagstaffs customers though, those who had purchased a Voxola radio or grammophone. The simple fact that you can use them to communicate to the Constant is enough to make them seem fishy.

And Willow... the new short makes clear that she was working for Maxwell as a kind of evidence-disposer. The message he sends her through a Terrorbeak says "One more to go" and knowing Maxwells kind of irony, the one more is probably gonna be Willow herself. She knew about shadows since she was a kid and why would Maxwell dispose every evidence of shadows in the library, but leave a mentally unstable eye-witness like her just running around?

 

6 hours ago, minespatch said:

The eye is also featured on the thulecite medallions.

The Alter isn't the only eye. The Ancients' murals show a dark eye inside the Gateway. The medallion probably does refer to that one, not the moon one.

I gotta add something about the fire at the Exposition Universelle in Brussel (as on Winonas corkboard) that fits the theory of Maxwell using Willow to dispose evidence:

Spoiler

It was an international exposition for art, engineering and such and someone could easily sneak in magical artifacts to showcase. The question is, who could be a candidate for this, who was around at that time? I'd say, the most likely candidate we know of is George Witherstone, Maxwells old prop supplier. This man definitely knew something about shadows (due to his watcher portrait) and he moved from America to France at some point, which is the closest any known character came to Brussel. And then, Maxwell tried to get him for that, by having Willow cause havoc at the exposition and trying to get them man himself into the Constant.

 

[lakhnish]

8 hours ago, Falkenpelz said:

It was an international exposition for art, engineering and such and someone could easily sneak in magical artifacts to showcase. The question is, who could be a candidate for this, who was around at that time? I'd say, the most likely candidate we know of is George Witherstone

But we already got a short involving Mr. Witherstone in Wes' short. I don't think Klei would do what you are suggesting for that reason.

That and that fire occurred in 1910, a year prior to this short's event in 1911, so I don't see how it thr "one more to go" note is going to work for that.

[Falkenpelz]

14 hours ago, lakhnish said:

But we already got a short involving Mr. Witherstone in Wes' short. I don't think Klei would do what you are suggesting for that reason.

That and that fire occurred in 1910, a year prior to this short's event in 1911, so I don't see how it thr "one more to go" note is going to work for that.

Oh, I didn't mean to say we might get a short about that event, I just wanted to point out that Maxwell clearly wanted Witherstone and that Witherstone had some information about shadow magic, so these might be related. The thing about the exposition was just a stretch for speculation. However, there was clearly something peculiar going on at the exposition, up to now Winona did not have a single false guess on her evidence board and I trust her with that.

And I don't think "one more to go" refered to Brussel, I thought that Maxwell cynically refered to Willow herself with that - let her dispose all evidence, and then dispose the disposer do be double safe.

[minespatch]

23 hours ago, Falkenpelz said:

Wes was not the intended victim, in his case Maxwell was after George Witherstone, who has a portrait of a frickin shadow watcher in his living room.

i'm curious if Witherstone of Mourier(from the Wendy vignette) will be explored on. 

[Falkenpelz]

2 minutes ago, minespatch said:

i'm curious if Witherstone of Mourier(from the Wendy vignette) will be explored on. 

I REALLY want to know, why Witherstone has a portrait of some person and a shadow watcher. Who even is the watcher? That poor guy got so much attention in earlier days, only to be then left as a scare for newbies, like the stagehand, my beloved...

[Cap0319]

After I watched the short and saw the note saying "One more to go" I'm really hoping they do another Willow rework (Or at least some QOL changes / new mechanics like Wortox). Many people don't want Wilson changed as having a basic character without any perks is always nice to have, especially for newcomers, so Willow getting another rework would be a fine substitute IMOP.

[LiamAshvinn001]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:10 AM, Eggsterminator said:

So...Spoilers for the new Wickerbottom rework, but I just had to discuss it.

Can we just talk about this secret room?! The eye symbol?! Is Wickerbottom possibly a part of some secret society? A cult? Or as many people speculated before, a witch of sorts?

Anyhow, The fact that she already appears to be aware of the existence of the Constant, knowledge and its creatures, is certainly interesting...

To be honest, I already speculated Willow would be behind this.

This on the other hand, is some juicy implication to see. This could suggest Willow was at some point involved with dissapearances of the other survivors...

 

Bonus: The Forlorn Doll Easter Egg (Which ironically or not, was the skin that appeared after Willow's rework...)

 

I feel like the library and eye is Wicker's family tradition.