Enraged Klaus

[goblinball]

A recent thread in these forums reminded me of the existence of enraged Klaus, and I’ve been wondering if the fight could be improved.

The first thing that comes to mind when I think of improving enraged Klaus is Terraria’s enraged EoL: if you fight her in day, her attacks become faster and kill you in 1 hit; however, if you defeat her in her enraged form, she drops the Terraprisma. I think it’d be fun if enraged Klaus was turned into something like this, where he’s both a punishment for killing the gem deer and an optional challenge which rewards the most skilled of players. I think this would require tweaking how enraged Klaus works, perhaps reworking the enraged fight entirely, but if done well I can see it adding another layer to the fight and making enraged Klaus actually worth doing.

 

EDIT: multiple ppl have complained about this so I’m going to elaborate a bit here: yes, my idea goes against the original intent for enraged Klaus (being a punishment); that’s the point. I want to transform enraged Klaus into both a punishment and an optional challenge, because I think that’s more fun.

[landromat]

make him drop 100% Krampus sack

[WendysEmployee]

If there was had be an award for killing enraged Klaus, It should only be able to drop if you enrage Klaus before doing any damage similar to how EoL only drops the terraprisma if all damage is done at daytime. So you still have the punishment for killing a deer while also having the option to fight enraged Klaus at the start for the drop.

[Lumine04]

The suggestion here is that people want a reward from a punishment. That doesnt make much sense.

The deer are designed so players learn that the deer need to live if a player hopes to kill Klaus. There should be no reward for this if the mechanic itself also doesnt encourage enraging him in the first place.

[goblinball]

1 hour ago, Lumine04 said:

 

The suggestion here is that people want a reward from a punishment. That doesnt make much sense.

 

The whole point of this post is that enraged Klaus can be more than just a punishment, and could be turned into a fun mechanic which will keep enraged Klaus as a punishment for ppl who are not prepared for enraged Klaus while also having him be a fun challenge for more skilled players. I even said this in the original post.

 

3 hours ago, goblinball said:

where he’s both a punishment for killing the gem deer and an optional challenge which rewards the most skilled of players

Please actually read my posts before replying to them.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Just give enraged Klaus a different move set and make him full heal when the deers die easy.

[SapoLover]

1 hour ago, Lumine04 said:

The suggestion here is that people want a reward from a punishment. That doesnt make much sense.

Enranging Klaus is a punishment for those who want make the fight easier not knowing that it'll become more difficult. Most likely, they will run away or die and never enrage him again.

After that, you know what's coming and it is completely on your hands to defeat him. You decided to defeat him after he became enraged.

I don't see why an extra reward for those who choose to afront a harder challenge doesn't make sense.

[Baark0]

It'd need some serious tuning, because as it stands E-Klaus basically requires you to cheese with bees or some other method. Imo, the damage reduction would need to be tuned down heavily, or outright removed, and either the range or speed of his attacks decreased as well. Maybe when you kill 1 deer, the other deer's chains and gem breaks when Klaus enrages, allowing him to gain new abilities outside of casting fire/ice every 3 attacks.

I still think the fight should be very hard, as then you can give a really cool/powerful reward, maybe a 1 time use item duplicator. You could duplicate the eye bone and have both shadow and ice chester, hell, you could duplicate Pearl's pearl and fight 9 pearl crab king, which then could be turned into an actual boss fight as well, but I'm getting ahead of myself. The point is, if I'm going to spend 3 days killing a 41160hp enemy, that unlike Toadstool, is an actual threat, I want some item that breaks the norm of what boss loot can do.

[-Variant]

I honestly don't know. I very much enjoy there being no reward because if there was one... people would seek it out!
The design/intention was that it was a punishment, something you ought to avoid. I think putting a drop behind that would ruin that idea.
I could almost compare the design choices to that of the Warden from Minecraft if I really wanted to pull from another medias' book, hehe.

[goblinball]

I’ve added an edit to my original post to hopefully clear up some of the confusion, I hope this helps. 

2 hours ago, Baark0 said:

It'd need some serious tuning, because as it stands E-Klaus basically requires you to cheese with bees or some other method. Imo

I agree, one of the reasons why barely anybody attempts enraged Klaus is because it’s just not fun in its current state. I think giving him more damage (not instakill like EoL, though) and some new, challenging attacks and scrapping the hp bloat entirely would make the fight a lot more fun.

[ALCRD]

9 hours ago, Lumine04 said:

The suggestion here is that people want a reward from a punishment. That doesnt make much sense.

And what's wrong with giving a lil bit of extra something for powering through a boss mechanic that serves as a punishment for the player instead fighting the boss the normal easier way?

Many games do that including Terraria.

Where you get extra something for how badass you were for defeating the boss despite of the punishing mechanic.

[LiamAshvinn001]

10 hours ago, landromat said:

make him drop 100% Krampus sack

The real treasure should be the friends we made along the way

[SonicDen220]

Y'know, people use Terraria's EoL fight as an example of an enraged boss with a reward here, but at the same time there are more "enraged" bosses that don't reward you in any way. Queen bee, plantera and duke fishron enrage outside of their biome, gaining double damage, double defense and faster attacks, skeletron and skeletron prime one-shot you when it turns daytime (dungeon guardian doesn't count, it's not the same boss as skeletron). You don't get anything unique out of fighting them like that, because you're not supposed to.

I'm not against there being a reward for fighting enraged Klaus, it's just that it was always meant to be a punishment and the Terraria comparison doesn't hold up at all.

[Fuffles]

2 hours ago, -Variant said:

I honestly don't know. I very much enjoy there being no reward because if there was one... people would seek it out!
The design/intention was that it was a punishment, something you ought to avoid. I think putting a drop behind that would ruin that idea.
I could almost compare the design choices to that of the Warden from Minecraft if I really wanted to pull from another medias' book, hehe.

Taking the Warden as an example, make enraged Klaus drop a single piece of charcoal, just how the Warden drops a Sculk Catalyst. 

17 minutes ago, SonicDen220 said:

Y'know, people use Terraria's EoL fight as an example of an enraged boss with a reward here, but at the same time there are more "enraged" bosses that don't reward you in any way. Queen bee, plantera and duke fishron enrage outside of their biome, gaining double damage, double defense and faster attacks, skeletron and skeletron prime one-shot you when it turns daytime (dungeon guardian doesn't count, it's not the same boss as skeletron). You don't get anything unique out of fighting them like that, because you're not supposed to.

Let's not forget that EoL's design is a bullet hell boss, you can memorise the pattern and learn to flawless it.
Klaus like all the other DST bosses is not a bullet hell, if anything if klei were to add an unique reward like a Terraprisma, people would look for a way to cheese him and essentially void the rewarding feeling of a flawless drop. Combat in DST is also not exactly that complicated, you run up, hit run away and repeat and by that logic regardless what you rework Klaus into it will be a snoozefest or just very frustrating.

IMO there is no need for a reward for disobeying a bosses' rules

[Hornete]

5 hours ago, -Variant said:

I honestly don't know. I very much enjoy there being no reward because if there was one... people would seek it out!
The design/intention was that it was a punishment, something you ought to avoid. I think putting a drop behind that would ruin that idea.

I feel the exact same, putting a reward behind Enraged Klaus feels really weird, both in gameplay and thematically. You did something "naughty", tried to be clever but ended up pissing him off! I love that kind of knock-back the game gives you when you thought you were clever, but ended up making everything so much worse and I think that chaos is great, and so I don't think there should be a reward by that. To me, it feels duper weird for the survivors to be rewarded for defeating Enraged Klaus specifically.

Is it weird to have something not be a thing for thematic purposes? Maybe, but I care deeply for Don't Starve and its world and it's theme.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Hornete said:

I feel the exact same, putting a reward behind Enraged Klaus feels really weird, both in gameplay and thematically. You did something "naughty", tried to be clever but ended up pissing him off! I love that kind of knock-back the game gives you when you thought you were clever, but ended up making everything so much worse and I think that chaos is great, and so I don't think there should be a reward by that. To me, it feels duper weird for the survivors to be rewarded for defeating Enraged Klaus specifically.

Is it weird to have something not be a thing for thematic purposes? Maybe, but I care deeply for Don't Starve and its world and it's theme.

plus makes you protect the deers during hound atacks or bosses spawning. Or not being able to use mob armies 

[Lumine04]

4 hours ago, ALCRD said:

And what's wrong with giving a lil bit of extra something for powering through a boss mechanic that serves as a punishment for the player instead fighting the boss the normal easier way?

Many games do that including Terraria.

Where you get extra something for how badass you were for defeating the boss despite of the punishing mechanic.

Plantara, queen bee, enraged mechs, enraged skeletron all dont drop extra stuff when you "make the fight harder" so-

[Guille6785]

a 1v1 enraged klaus fight from max hp takes like 60 minutes without damage mults

this has nothing to do with adding an optional challenge for "experienced players", literally nobody would torture themselves like this

[ALCRD]

21 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

literally nobody would torture themselves like this

You'd be surprised..

[Maxposting]

It is pointless, and people would just exploit the enraged fight to get a reward, completely dismissing the "challenge" aspect of it.

[Cloakingsumo198]

15 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

It is pointless, and people would just exploit the enraged fight to get a reward, completely dismissing the "challenge" aspect of it.

Don't people exploit most things in the game already?

[goblinball]

8 hours ago, Lumine04 said:

Plantara, queen bee, enraged mechs, enraged skeletron all dont drop extra stuff when you "make the fight harder" so-

So what???? If anything, you’re just proving my point. Nobody ever talks about or does the enraged versions of any of those bosses because they don’t have any rewards. Meanwhile, tons of ppl fight enraged EoL.

 

6 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

It is pointless, and people would just exploit the enraged fight to get a reward, completely dismissing the "challenge" aspect of it.

Should we remove all of fuelweaver’s drops because some people cheese the fight?

 

7 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

this has nothing to do with adding an optional challenge for "experienced players", literally nobody would torture themselves like this

Please actually read my posts before replying ngl

 

15 hours ago, goblinball said:

I agree, one of the reasons why barely anybody attempts enraged Klaus is because it’s just not fun in its current state. I think giving him more damage (not instakill like EoL, though) and some new, challenging attacks and scrapping the hp bloat entirely would make the fight a lot more fun.

(Specifically this one)

[Lumine04]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

So what???? If anything, you’re just proving my point. Nobody ever talks about or does the enraged versions of any of those bosses because they don’t have any rewards. Meanwhile, tons of ppl fight enraged EoL.

...

Should we remove all of fuelweaver’s drops because some people cheese the fight?

You make a great point, the suggestion is good too. The fight would need huge tuning, for one instead of more HP and defense just more erratic attacking and possibly less defense. However the mechanic of the deer, like I said, discourage enraging him. So how could the game communicate that it is a good idea loot-wise?

...

Unironically yes...

[Just-guy]

Almost nobody wants to attempt fighting Enraged Klaus because it's designed to be hard, long and unfun, because it's a punishment. Not everything needs to have a reward for being difficult, specially when the original idea of EK is to be a punishment and, unlike the EoL fight, something you must avoid for all reasons.

It cannot be a punishment AND an optional form, the punishment of EK is that one would try to make the fight easier by killing the deer only to Klaus to become stronger and faster. If it was an optional form that had a reward it would just be a hard boss fight, the only punishment would be not being prepared for it which is already the concept of the raid bosses, and this concept already applies to Toadstool with it's Misery form and you can see how they made it even more annoying.

27 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I agree, one of the reasons why barely anybody attempts enraged Klaus is because it’s just not fun in its current state. I think giving him more damage (not instakill like EoL, though) and some new, challenging attacks and scrapping the hp bloat entirely would make the fight a lot more fun.

If you want a different new fight why not make a different new boss to fight?

[Cloakingsumo198]

28 minutes ago, Just-guy said:

It cannot be a punishment AND an optional form

Can't they just make his health reset and life amulet restore once the deers are killed?

It would still be punishment if you decided to kill the deers later rather than immediately since you'll just be wasting your gear.

Still sounds like punishment to me, especially if you think you're cheeky by whittling him down to low hp just for him to bounce back refreshed and harder.

It's not impossible for it to be both just not in the way it is now.

28 minutes ago, Just-guy said:

If you want a different new fight why not make a different new boss to fight?

Ancient guardian got a rework what is wrong with asking for something similar?