Enraged Klaus

[00petar00]

I don't see the point of people saying that it should be just a punishment, if no one ever fights enraged Klaus apart from a new player that doesn't know.

While it would be fun if there was a reward for killing enraged Klaus where you get the krampus sack 100% of the time. It would still be a punishment for new/unprepared players that just killed the deer for first time.

Why can't it be a punishment for some people and reward others for overcoming it at the same time.

[Just-guy]

7 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Can't they just make his health reset and life amulet restore once the deers are killed?

It would still be punishment if you decided to kill the deers later rather than immediately since you'll just be wasting your gear.

Still sounds like punishment to me, especially if you think you're cheeky by whittling him down to low hp just for him to bounce back refreshed and harder.

It's not impossible for it to be both just not in the way it is now.

That would only punish those who don't know about it and once they learn about it that part of the punishment becomes easily avoidable if you kill the deers from the beginning. 

4 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Ancient guardian got a rework what is wrong with asking for something similar?

Ancient Guardian fight was changed becuase it was unfun so players would rely on the cheese to kill him, this was also a common ocurrence because you have to kill him to get access to the Ancient Fuelweaver fight, many people complained about it so they reworked the fight. Enranged Klaus fight is designed to be unfun and without any extra rewards to make players not fight him in that form, this is acknowledged by the players and there isn't a good reason to change it.

[goblinball]

14 minutes ago, Just-guy said:

That would only punish those who don't know about it and once they learn about it that part of the punishment becomes easily avoidable if you kill the deers from the beginning. 

Assuming it wouldn’t just be an hp refill, and Klaus gains more damage/attacks, then it would still be a punishment, since now you have to deal with a more challenging fight. 

[Just-guy]

1 minute ago, goblinball said:

Assuming it wouldn’t just be an hp refill, and Klaus gains more damage/attacks, then it would still be a punishment, since now you have to deal with a more challenging fight. 

The health refill would still be easily avoided by killing the deers once Klaus and the deers spawn, so the enraged fight could starts, and kust ends up being the enraged fight without the annoying surprise of health regen.

[Cloakingsumo198]

52 minutes ago, Just-guy said:

The health refill would still be easily avoided by killing the deers once Klaus and the deers spawn, so the enraged fight could starts, and kust ends up being the enraged fight without the annoying surprise of health regen.

They'll still end up fighting a tougher boss though, the health refill acts like a deterrent from acting smart by trying to switch from regular Klaus to enraged. Or just a straight up punishment if the deer die when you aren't prepared for the harder fight like how it is already.

So basically either choose to fight it in it's enraged form from the start or get punished by the deers dying if you're trying to fight the normal one.

Enraged Klaus isn't impossible to kill either it's just a long boring fight without any cool changes and no payout for the extra effort, to me it sounds like a spot for potential instead of just some stat scaling to scare off the player. Just because that's how it is now doesn't mean it shouldn't change in the future.

I mean deerclops got a cool laser attack for winter feasts in one update, so an enraged Klaus rework sometime wouldn't be unwelcomed to me.

[Just-guy]

12 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I mean deerclops got a cool laser attack for winter feasts in one update, so an enraged Klaus rework sometime wouldn't be unwelcomed to me.

Feastclops laser works because it's simply an extra attack that players need to look out for, her health, attack speed and damage remain the same, unlike Enraged Klaus where his attack speed, damage, range, health and even damage absorption are buffed to make the fight incredibly hard to the point it can take over an hour to kill.

To make the enraged fight optional it would be needed changes to not buff him as much in that form, which would lessen the punishment it has as of now and just turn it into a very hard fight that would stll last long.

What could even be the reward for said fight?, the Loot Stash on it's own can drop boss items or Rare Blueprints which is already great on it's own. Some say Klaus should drop a Krampus Sack but that's a very simple drop for a boss that's supposed to be harder than normal Klaus, and can be obtained throught the Loot Sack itself (with only a 10% for it but still).

[Cheggf]

Instead of putting in all the effort to make an entirely new fight and just slap it on e Klaus for no reason why not just make an entirely new fight? 

[Cloakingsumo198]

22 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Instead of putting in all the effort to make an entirely new fight and just slap it on e Klaus for no reason why not just make an entirely new fight? 

Because

[goblinball]

6 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Instead of putting in all the effort to make an entirely new fight and just slap it on e Klaus for no reason why not just make an entirely new fight? 

It’s not “for no reason”. Enraged Klaus is very boring rn but could be made way more interesting and fun instead of just a thing everyone avoids.

[Cheggf]

6 minutes ago, goblinball said:

It’s not “for no reason”. Enraged Klaus is very boring rn but could be made way more interesting and fun instead of just a thing everyone avoids.

You are supposed to avoid it. 

[goblinball]

14 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You are supposed to avoid it. 

I am aware. The whole point of this suggestion is to change enraged Klaus from something everyone avoids to an optional challenge some players will avoid. I have explained this multiple times in this exact thread.

[Just-guy]

2 hours ago, goblinball said:

The whole point of this suggestion is to change enraged Klaus from something everyone avoids to an optional challenge some players will avoid.

But why? What would this acomplish? Klaus' fight already takes skill to kill him and the items you get from him can be some of the best boss drops ingame, so there isn't any reason to make him more difficult and even then his rewards when normal can be great on their own as of now.

[Cloakingsumo198]

27 minutes ago, Just-guy said:

But why?

 

9 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Because

I don't think we ever left this stage in the thread.

It's because enraged Klaus is there.

[goblinball]

36 minutes ago, Just-guy said:

But why? What would this acomplish?

It’d make enraged Klaus more fun

idk about you but I personally like it when things are fun

[Snugrugbug]

32 minutes ago, goblinball said:

It’d make enraged Klaus more fun

idk about you but I personally like it when things are fun

Enraged Klaus isn't supposed to be fun

[Just-guy]

1 minute ago, goblinball said:

It’d make enraged Klaus more fun

idk about you but I personally like it when things are fun

But Enraged Klaus is not designed to be fun.

Klaus is already well designed as he currently is both thematically and gameplay wise, you try to open the Loot Stash with the incorrect key and summon him for attempting getting the contents the easy way, you must learn his attack patterns and dodge the Gem Deer spells, once you kill him it appears the fight ended only for the Life Giving Amulet to revive him and him showing his real form getting an extra range attack, making you need to learn to dodge this new attack along with all that was in the first phase. Once you kill him again, the Gem Deers are free as they were being controlled by Klaus, you also obtain the Stag Antler allowing you to open the Loot Stash as a reward with the possibility of powerful items.

If you try to make the fight easier by killing the deers, the game punishes you by making Klaus extremely difficult, you did something that you weren't supposed to and now the only thing you can do is flee as if you try to fight him, you'll most certainly die.

His fight is challenging and his rewards are great, there's no real reason for why to change the fight.

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, goblinball said:

I am aware. The whole point of this suggestion is to change enraged Klaus from something everyone avoids to an optional challenge some players will avoid. I have explained this multiple times in this exact thread.

Yeah you keep saying you know it's not supposed to be fought but you don't seem to get it. Your reason for why he should be changed is because he should be changed. That's not a reason, that's just you repeating yourself.

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

It’d make enraged Klaus more fun

idk about you but I personally like it when things are fun

So where's your thread asking the developers to dedicate an entire update to adding things you can do as a ghost? Or maybe dedicating an entire update to making fighting bunnymen more fun?

You still haven't given a single reason why they should put in an entire boss' worth of effort on this random thing instead of putting an entire boss' worth of effort on a new boss which people would actually like. 

[Fatkitty]

I think it is fine the way it is. It sort of goes hand in hand with the Klaus lore anyway. Why would Klaus reward you for killing his babies and beating him when he's pissed off? 

Just because something is difficult does not mean it should warrant a reward. Trying to kill a heard of mating Beefalo with an axe no armor is difficult. Doesn't mean you should be rewarded for your foolishness. 

[goblinball]

45 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You still haven't given a single reason why they should put in an entire boss' worth of effort on this random thing instead of putting an entire boss' worth of effort on a new boss which people would actually like. 

Enraged Klaus is not fun 

Having not fun things in a game is usually bad

so I want enraged Klaus to be fun (turn bad thing into good thing, like ancient guardian)

idk how this isn’t a reason but ig the forums forgot what fun is

hopefully me putting this in extremely simple terms will help you understand 

49 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So where's your thread asking the developers to dedicate an entire update to adding things you can do as a ghost? Or maybe dedicating an entire update to making fighting bunnymen more fun?

I am not demanding klei remove all not-fun stuff from the game. Reworking enraged Klaus is just an idea I thought would be fun and decided to share with the forums.

[Just-guy]

6 minutes ago, goblinball said:

Enraged Klaus is not fun 

Having not fun things in a game is usually bad

so I want enraged Klaus to be fun (turn bad thing into good thing, like ancient guardian)

idk how this isn’t a reason but ig the forums forgot what fun is

hopefully me putting this in extremely simple terms will help you understand 

Don't mock the argument when you've been told and explained several times in this thread that Enraged Klaus is designed to be unfun because it's a punishment you must avoid.

Ancient Guardian fight got reworked because it was objectively bad, to the point players would cheese him. Also, since it's required to kill him to access the Ancient Fuelweaver fight it was a common event and was an unfun part of the journey to get to the Gateway fight, players complained about this so they reworked Ancient Guardian's fight.

Because EK is a punishment, players that know about it will not kill the deers making EK a very rare event on top of the deers having high health so it will be difficult for them to die accidentally. One doesn't end up fighting EK because it's required but because one wants to make the fight easier and gets punished for it.

EK fight is bad by design and it works great as it is.

[goblinball]

27 minutes ago, Just-guy said:

Enraged Klaus is designed to be unfun because it's a punishment you must avoid.

I’ve yet to see a single good reason this entire thread as to why enraged klaus can’t be fun. As long as enraged Klaus is still harder than the regular fight, it’d still be a punishment most players would want to avoid. Making Enraged Klaus more fun would provide a new, actually fun challenge for players who want to test their skills (or want his enraged-exclusive reward if he drops one).

It’d be like how dfly is just sitting in the world, waiting; however, when you encounter him in the first few days of a world you want to avoid him until you have proper gear. He punishes unsuspecting players who waltz into his lava zone unprepared whilst providing a fun challenge (or boring cutscene if you use walls) and some rewards for players who decide to fight him with proper equipment and skill.

[BezKa]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

I’ve yet to see a single good reason this entire thread as to why enraged klaus can’t be fun.

1. Because it's his design, as many people have explained

2. Because his actual fight is way more fun and interesting with the deer than it could ever be without them. What possible moves could Enraged Klaus have to compensate for the dynamicness of dodging and counteracting two spells, avoiding hitting followers, and some extra DPS from the headbumps? There's only so much a single entity can do.

3. If something that works as it is requires so much change in order to... Not sure what, well, maybe a completely new boss is a better idea.

4. If the reward was as good as a guaranteed sack, everyone would want to fight EK more than the classic one, leading to a perfectly good fight design going to waste because meta or something

5. Because nobody wants to fight enraged Klaus. That's the point. Nobody needs the fight to be fun, because nobody is fighting it. You experience the punishment from killing the deer once, realize your mistake, don't repeat it. It all loops back to the boss's design. It's the whole point, that's why you think there is no good argument, while the only needed argument is exactly that- EK could just as well have no health at all, because it's a punishment, over. Not a challenge.

[Cloakingsumo198]

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

1. Because it's his design, as many people have explained

Many things have an original design that gets changed just because it's the first iteration doesn't mean it has to be that way forever character reworks, boss changes, mechanic changes it happens.

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

2. Because his actual fight is way more fun and interesting with the deer than it could ever be without them. What possible moves could Enraged Klaus have to compensate for the dynamicness of dodging and counteracting two spells, avoiding hitting followers, and some extra DPS from the headbumps? There's only so much a single entity can do.

I've seen that boss fight enough times already to remember how it functions in it's entirety and it's pretty boring to me. Nobody fights enraged Klaus already it's practically another boss. It doesn't need to be just the same lunge and 2 swipe combo that gets repetitive they can make more moves to show the hyper aggression in another way. Nobody fights enraged dragonfly with her larvae they just panflute it away and use walls for the larvae removing any sense of "dynamic gameplay" not everybody cares.

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

3. If something that works as it is requires so much change in order to... Not sure what, well, maybe a completely new boss is a better idea.

Again original design choices get changed over time already if you're worried about the effort that would be put in this that's on klei to decide where they put their resources.

Enraged Klaus can be different enough to essentially be another boss.

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

4. If the reward was as good as a guaranteed sack, everyone would want to fight EK more than the classic one, leading to a perfectly good fight design going to waste because meta or something

Except the people who can't even kill regular Klaus, or don't know about enraged Klaus drops, or the people who don't want to deal with an enraged Klaus, or people who don't care about meta, or people who don't care about Klaus.

This just seems dumb cause its obsessing over themes and what others are trying to do.

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

5. Because nobody wants to fight enraged Klaus.

I didn't realize you were omnipresent

But this thread is about making enraged Klaus fun and something people want to consider fighting for the increased reward.

You don't need the original Klaus design you just want it to stay.

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, goblinball said:

It’d be like how dfly is just sitting in the world, waiting; however, when you encounter him in the first few days of a world you want to avoid him until you have proper gear. He punishes unsuspecting players who waltz into his lava zone unprepared whilst providing a fun challenge (or boring cutscene if you use walls) and some rewards for players who decide to fight him with proper equipment and skill.

No. It'd be like if walling off the lavae made dfly have 95% damage resistance and be permanently enraged. Then you come in and say that enraged dfly should get a full rework but refuse to give a single reason why. 

9 hours ago, goblinball said:

I am not demanding klei remove all not-fun stuff from the game

And yet your only "argument" is mockingly saying Klaus isn't fun. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

22 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

And yet your only "argument" is mockingly saying Klaus isn't fun. 

 

8 hours ago, goblinball said:

As long as enraged Klaus is still harder than the regular fight, it’d still be a punishment most players would want to avoid. Making Enraged Klaus more fun would provide a new, actually fun challenge for players who want to test their skills (or want his enraged-exclusive reward if he drops one).

Selective reading? I'm seeing the same argument from this side too egg boy you aren't good at staying nonpartisan.