Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[ColdHeaven]

this update if it was for webber
-spiders count now limited to 10
-you can still recruit spiders but can no longer prolong their loyalty by feeding them meat but rather you must stand in one place and dance
-you can now craft a structure where you can dance to raise morale and loyalty faster
-webber now move faster in web


+people 1 who didn't consider him fun before now does and agree with this changes
+people 2 who have mained him for long disagree with the changes, especially the limit to spiders count
 

[Keller Max]

Average Old Virgin Wolfgang lovers or Average New Gym Chad Wolfgang enjoyers?

Choose a side

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

Klei,

Thank you for your hard work on this rework and for putting out a beta for us to play test. I had an opportunity to spend some time with it on Friday evening, and I’ve had the weekend to reflect on the changes. I’d like to make a suggestion and then get into my reasoning for it.

Please, scratch this take on the Wolfgang rework and go back to the drawing board.

The proposed rework has taken a character beloved by many and gutted his core game loop and perks. Wolfgang excelled in early game for his efficiency. Yes he killed bosses faster, but more importantly he could perform “everyday” tasks efficiently due to damage and move speed. The gym and weights system instead has him standing around doing nothing. As if that wasn’t enough, the speed bonus and penalty is gone as well.

I personally have 2,000+ days on Wolfgang from boss rushing to megabase building. I love playing this character. The proposed rework makes me feel disappointed. It takes away my interest in this character. It has left me wondering why my way of enjoying the game is not OK and must be removed. It has left me feeling dejected about the character and alienated from the game.

I know a vocal set of people on the forums feel Wolfgang is “too strong” or “overpowered”, but there’s absolutely nothing stopping those same people from playing Wolfgang. Not everyone needs to like every character, and we shouldn’t ruin characters that lots of players love just to placate those other players.

In my opinion, reworks are successful when they make the people already playing a character *more* excited to play that character and also attract additional players to the character. At the very least, a rework should not push away the players that already enjoy a character, but this rework is doing just that.

I believe you knew what you were doing with this update and that you intended to nerf Wolfgang. I hope you thought about how it would affect the players that love Wolfgang just how he is. I hope this post helps you understand how it has affected at least one player. Personally, I struggle to understand your motives with these changes. Why can’t Wolfgang just get flavor on top of what he already is?

If, after the dust settles, this update is pushed through with these massive nerfs, I hope that you can help us understand why the sacrifice was needed. But I certainly hope you consider otherwise because it would mean bye bye Wolfgang for me and many others.

Thanks for reading.

We will make it out of this rework brother.

[JustExo]

I would very much like to see a dev stream talking about the changes and why they were made. I've been saying it a lot, but having insight into what Klei's intention was in this rework and the motivations behind each specific change would be a really good way to resolve a lot of conflict behind this

[PyPy]

Feedback: Wolfgang's health, sanity, speed and healing have been nerfed. I just want his speed back. The speed nerf is the one that bugs me the most and I hope it will be reverted. I thought the animations of switching between forms would have been smoothed out. It's sad to see Klei nerfing Wolfgang and some of the playerbase filled with joy because they have some vendetta against Wolfgang players. Wolfgang had damage/health/speed now he only has damage with no utility. He only really shined solo but this is a together game, and when playing together his damage doesn't really shine and he is average to below average. 

[KrazJoe]

Reading the suggestion subforum, it seems some would like to see only straight buff to the character.

- Having the speed back

- No gym time

- Flat power during mighty

- Still carry heavy object faster, including marble suit and piggy bag

- Chop, mind and hammer faster

- More defense

-----

There were mention of anti-Wes and suppose to how strong is oppose of weak, therefore Wes' penalty should be benefit to the strong.

Wes is designed to be the hard mode, does that mean Wolf should be the easy mode?

-----

I still stand by my suggestion on having Wolf craft slower, as he is the dumb strongman.

[Capybara007]

2 hours ago, JustExo said:

I would very much like to see a dev stream talking about the changes and why they were made. I've been saying it a lot, but having insight into what Klei's intention was in this rework and the motivations behind each specific change would be a really good way to resolve a lot of conflict behind this

Those streams are normally to showcase concept art and all of that stuff

[IscoFish]

Good god i should've started reading this entire thread since it was first posted.
Really don't feel like reading through so many messages but at the same time i feel like i should
Perhaps a Tl;Dr would be neat.

[Ohan]

2 hours ago, Drieuq said:

Perhaps a Tl;Dr would be neat.

Group A: add more utility to mighty form like forceful tool swings that eat durability but chop/mine/hammer faster. Slow down or even slowly increase mightiness while doing tool tasks. Better dumbell throws and tuning. A use for potato sacks like potato exclusive storage container with very slow spoilage. A showmanship aspect to his gym where he raises the sanity of onlookers in relation to the heaviness of his weights. 

Group B: give back speed boost. (or revert refresh entirely)

[Cloakingsumo198]

Just add more interactions for him when he is mighty mannnn

[herding dog]

Klei - thank you for providing the surprise beta branch for this rework and thank you for all the hard work you do. I know it's said often, but I'll say it again: your constant updates and high-quality work on this game are a real treat. I'm very thankful I've been able to play this game and experience all of your creativity for the number of hours that I have.

Your commitment to refreshing existing characters is admirable. In the case of Wolfgang, it is clear you've all put in a lot of work. I understand there are people in the community who take issue with the Wolfgang character and believe he should be changed to make the game more balanced - too whatever extent that is possible in a video game. While I understand this sentiment, I also have to say that I have played many hours as Wolfgang as he is currently configured and he is my favorite character. I enjoy the contrast between playing him and any other character. The challenge of picking the right food to hunt or grow for bundles to maximize combat efficiency is a lot of fun. His fast and aggressive playstyle is thrilling. The three forms, how they are tied to hunger, and the way they change the health bar add color to the game that is both interesting and unique. I find worthy challenges in both managing his sanity, figuring out when to be mighty outside of combat, keeping my food bundles filled and fighting new bosses/progressing in the game in a way I could only do because of the confidence the Wolfgang character provides. In short: I thoroughly enjoy playing this character.

I am concerned not enough of us spoke up while the character was being reconfigured for the rework. The new Wolfgang is quite a bit different than the old Wolfgang (not to say the new Wolfgang won't be fun to play) and, given that to be true, I wanted to ask a question. When I originally purchased this game (I'm sure this is true for a lot of Wolfgang players), I purchased it in order to play the Wolfgang character as he is currently configured. Respectfully, would it be possible to leave an option in the game to play Wolfgang in his "Classic" form (i.e mighty at 225 Hunger, 300 max health, speed boost, etc)?

Thanks for making such a fun game. Happy holidays.

Edit: should have given this a second proof read.

[Duck986]

8 minutes ago, herding dog said:

Respectfully, would it be possible to leave an option in the game to play Wolfgang in his "Classic" form (i.e mighty at 225 Hunger, 300 max health, speed boost, etc)?

I doubt. Many players liked pre-reworked Woodie, but Klei didn't add it back, so fans made a mod for this

[hhh2]

6 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

I doubt. Many players liked pre-reworked Woodie, but Klei didn't add it back, so fans made a mod for this

I liked pre rework woodie, although he was much worse. I still remember the first time i figured out what the curse was, good times.

[Mysterious box]

11 hours ago, ColdHeaven said:

-spiders count now limited to 10

Honestly considering he does have infinite loyalty I do think he should have a cap if we're so set on balancing

But anyway I think the main thing that Kiel did wrong with this update is that they didn't give him a good replacement for the things he lost so it comes up more feeling like a nerf than a refresh.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

he should have a cap

lag xD

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

lag xD

Xbox go Kaboom >_>
 

38 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

I doubt. Many players liked pre-reworked Woodie, but Klei didn't add it back, so fans made a mod for this

I somehow doubt that, WHY are their options to host worlds as “Classic” or “Together”? It’s almost like Klei EVENTUALLY plans to add an option to play with DS Solo biomes, mobs & character playstyles, and DSTs newer updates, content & character reworks on the other.

Interesting fact: If you DO host a world as “Classic” Dragonfly’s Biome doesn’t even spawn because in Solo DS she didn’t even have a biome of her own and instead spawned in same as Deerclops & Bearger.

[hhh2]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Xbox go Kaboom >_>
 

I somehow doubt that, WHY are their options to host worlds as “Classic” or “Together”? It’s almost like Klei EVENTUALLY plans to add an option to play with DS Solo biomes, mobs & character playstyles, and DSTs newer updates, content & character reworks on the other.

Interesting fact: If you DO host a world as “Classic” Dragonfly’s Biome doesn’t even spawn because in Solo DS she didn’t even have a biome of her own and instead spawned in same as Deerclops & Bearger.

wait, you mean dfly just spawns later in summer like in RoG, if it's set to "Classic"? 

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

wait, you mean dfly just spawns later in summer like in RoG, if it's set to "Classic"? 

No.. currently she doesn’t spawn at all if set to “Classic” but I’m assuming Classic also means before the Reign of Giants update..

But I have to question why the world Gen option is even there when it doesn’t seem to DO much.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

54 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

wait, you mean dfly just spawns later in summer like in RoG, if it's set to "Classic"? 

as i remember it only changes the world gen to be something more close to the DS version but i might be wrong

[JustExo]

Gamers Imma say it

Wolfgang carrying a piggyback is actually still a bad thing. But in a different way.

It can still be seen as something that weighs you down because of the need to be mighty to remove the speed decrease which, at worst will be a steady drain on rocks, gold, and/or purple gems, and at best require you to frequently visit a gym structure.

A way to mitigate this a bit is to remove the speed decrease in normal form too, and just make it a bad thing when wimpy

[sawchuk]

Just now, JustExo said:

Gamers Imma say it

Wolfgang carrying a piggyback is actually still a bad thing. But in a different way.

It can still be seen as something that weighs you down because of the need to be mighty to remove the speed decrease which, at worst will be a steady drain on rocks, gold, and/or purple gems, and at best require you to frequently visit a gym structure.

A way to mitigate this a bit is to remove the speed decrease in normal form too, and just make it a bad thing when wimpy

The resource cost of maintaining mightiness with a gembell (or the gym) is the exact same in mighty form as it is in normal form. This would not be a meaningful change. Gembells are the only kind of dumbell  with an increased effect on going mighty, so you are going to want to use them anyways.

[JustExo]

5 minutes ago, sawchuk said:

The resource cost of maintaining mightiness with a gembell (or the gym) is the exact same in mighty form as it is in normal form. This would not be a meaningful change. Gembells are the only kind of dumbell  with an increased effect on going mighty, so you are going to want to use them anyways.

It'll still cost purple gems and rocks to make, and if you are to frequently use it to maintain mightiness in order to carry a piggyback with you, then you'll have to use it more frequently which makes it still a steady drain on those resources

[sawchuk]

1 minute ago, JustExo said:

It'll still cost purple gems and rocks to make, and if you are to frequently use it to maintain mightiness in order to carry a piggyback with you, then you'll have to use it more frequently which makes it still a steady drain on those resources

But making it so that the penalty is reduced in normal form wouldn't change how much resources are spent maintaining mightiness. Your suggestion has no effect on the problem you listed.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, JustExo said:

It'll still cost purple gems and rocks to make, and if you are to frequently use it to maintain mightiness in order to carry a piggyback with you, then you'll have to use it more frequently which makes it still a steady drain on those resources

"drain"

i crafted like 4 gembells in 84 days and i play mostly in mighty or at +70, nothing compared to the "grind fest" that was before. I might wasted more if they were a worthy weapon

 

[sawchuk]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

"drain"

i crafted like 4 gembells in 84 days and i play mostly in mighty or at +70, nothing compared to the "grind fest" that was before. I might wasted more if they were a worthy weapon

 

This is also a good point. Using nothing else, you can be permanently mighty for over 12.5 days using a single gembell. That's less than 6 a year. In the early days, you may need to run the ruins to get purple gems, but after this you can just live off of standard hound waves no problem.