Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[Catchee]

Just now, Keller Max said:

Any idea when update drops?

Post said see you thursday at the bottom there.

[HowlVoid]

39 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

Any idea when update drops?

 

Nvm! I just realized it's Thursday.

Never, welcome to hell 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

was someone able to row? i couldnt see the new rowing speed because it crash

[Hornete]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

was someone able to row? i couldnt see the new rowing speed because it crash

you can enter this command to fix the crash for now

function GetState(inst) return inst.components.mightiness:GetState() end

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Hornete said:

you can enter this command to fix the crash for now

function GetState(inst) return inst.components.mightiness:GetState() end

 

my savior

 

[BiniGamerr]

This ain't it chief. 

[CaptainChaotica]

This may have already been asked and/or answered earlier, but this is (currently) a 39-page thread and I can't be arsed to read the whole thing, so...

Does he still STOP OR SLOW DOWN while changing states, and if so, IS HE STILL VULNERABLE DURING THOSE TIMES?

Because that's the main thing that keeps me from ever playing Wolfgang, myself, so...

Also the whole "eating dumbbells" thing reminds me of in Kingdom of Loathing, where you can "consume" various fitness or vitamin items for little bonuses to your character (and sometimes more Adventures, aka more turns in a day) until your Spleen hits a certain level.  (Not to be confused with Spleens the Cat, although she'd fit into KoL's sense of humor pretty well.)  The following is a legit quote from the game:

enchanted leopard-print barbell

This is a comically-over-sized barbell of the sort favored by burly, mustachioed men in striped singlets. It's no dumbbell, though; it practically crackles with mystical energy. Not only that, but it's covered in the most suave and moxious of fabrics: leopard print.

...BURLY MUSTACHIOED MEN IN STRIPED SINGLETS you say... XD

...anyway.  I guess I'll try playing a little as Wolfgang when the refresh actually does drop, but the second I get control of the character yanked out of my hands for a second and bitten by a dog because I wasn't working out enough mid-battle, I'll go back to not playing him at all again and nothing will have changed.  That truly is the ONLY thing I've ever wanted changed about him.

...Notorious

[GNGR bred boi]

1 minute ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Does he still STOP OR SLOW DOWN while changing states, and if so, IS HE STILL VULNERABLE DURING THOSE TIMES?

Yes

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Does he still STOP OR SLOW DOWN while changing states, and if so, IS HE STILL VULNERABLE DURING THOSE TIMES?

 

i like the need of time if can change form safely or i need to find room to use the dumbell/eat in the old version

makes the player pay attention which, imo, is a good mechanic. Same is applied with wanda's clock, wigfrid's songs, long eating animation food, etc

timing is part of the videogames

[GNGR bred boi]

Kind of your fault for going into the ruins during wild phase and then changing forms while being chased by 30 splumonkeys 

I fondly remember changing from mighty to normal while in a killer bee field, fun times that was. 

 

I don't think it's much of a bad thing just something to keep your eyes on 

[CaptainChaotica]

Yes, I realise that timing is part of a videogame, OF COURSE, but _when you're already being chased or fighting_ you can't really do anything, because eating or working out are also animations that slow you down!  and no, I don't keep a clock of exactly how many seconds it's been or how many exact points of whatever I have in my head at all times!  I just REALLY don't think he should change in a way that takes control of the character away from you, and for frick's sake, _invulnerability frames right after being hit have been a thing since REGULAR Mario Bros_!  Like, without the Super.  I remember, on my old Atari 2600, if Mario or Luigi got hit by something falling on their head they wouldn't be killable while still flashing.  

It's not all that unreasonable for someone to expect that, is what I'm saying.  WOLFGANG'S CHANGING MID-BATTLE IS THE MOST VISCERALLY ANNOYING THING I'VE RUN INTO IN A VIDEOGAME IN A LONG TIME, and if _that_ being fixed--yes, I said fixed, not changed!--isn't part of his refresh, then it WASN'T a refresh.

Fite me.  (I'm not coming back to this thread anyway, because THAT WAS THE ONLY FRIGGIN' THING I WANTED TO KNOW.)

....Notorious

[GNGR bred boi]

8 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

and no, I don't keep a clock of exactly how many seconds it's been or how many exact points of whatever I have in my head at all times! 

Combined Status is a pretty good client mod that can fix that instead of having to mouse over your stats 

[KrazJoe]

^ well, at least he can still have armor and access to items before and after, unlike Woodie

[ShuH]

I want Wolfgang to have his speed boost back during a fight, only during the fight. He is a combat-focusing character after all.

[firoborn]

If klei doesnt want wolfgang to have a speed boost becouse that makes him a "jack of all trades" why not just give him a sprint? The mightiness meter surely doesnt have to be just a timer maybe it can be expendible too, other games have characters that can sprint for a short burst of speed that quiclky falls off with the purpose of dodging or gaining some distance from the enemy, like wanda not only has RANGE but she also has acces to IFRAMES on top of that. Soo.. Why not give wolfgang a sprint?

Also let wolfgang gain mightiness while punching stuff with a dumbell.

[Sunset_Liddel]

30 minutes ago, firoborn said:

If klei doesnt want wolfgang to have a speed boost becouse that makes him a "jack of all trades" why not just give him a sprint? The mightiness meter surely doesnt have to be just a timer maybe it can be expendible too, other games have characters that can sprint for a short burst of speed that quiclky falls off with the purpose of dodging or gaining some distance from the enemy, like wanda not only has RANGE but she also has acces to IFRAMES on top of that. Soo.. Why not give wolfgang a sprint?

Also let wolfgang gain mightiness while punching stuff with a dumbell.

do you mean something like wheeler dodging ability?

[thentor0802]

I like wolfgang's simplicity. This is going to definally make him less fun to play. 
Also, since wolfgang is a strongman, makes sence that he need to eat to get stronger. His old hunger mechanics are simple yet realistic and effective. Let's all be honest, this wont make wolfgang more popular or fun to play, it will only add unecessary things to this character. I like the new perks but they wont make much difference. Yeah he does more damage now since he can stay at x2 permanent at mighty form, but whatever it's not like wolf didn't melt bosses HP anyway, the movement speed is a big oof, but it's not meta changing too. 
Also, if you are going to make him workout, please add DEADLIFTS and FARMER'S WALKS, cut that gym crap and add those instead! Goddamn he's a STRONGMAN, even in the old circus days these men were doing all these lifts! Carrying the statues could make him mighty too!

[thentor0802]

3 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Yes, I realise that timing is part of a videogame, OF COURSE, but _when you're already being chased or fighting_ you can't really do anything, because eating or working out are also animations that slow you down!  and no, I don't keep a clock of exactly how many seconds it's been or how many exact points of whatever I have in my head at all times!  I just REALLY don't think he should change in a way that takes control of the character away from you, and for frick's sake, _invulnerability frames right after being hit have been a thing since REGULAR Mario Bros_!  Like, without the Super.  I remember, on my old Atari 2600, if Mario or Luigi got hit by something falling on their head they wouldn't be killable while still flashing.  

It's not all that unreasonable for someone to expect that, is what I'm saying.  WOLFGANG'S CHANGING MID-BATTLE IS THE MOST VISCERALLY ANNOYING THING I'VE RUN INTO IN A VIDEOGAME IN A LONG TIME, and if _that_ being fixed--yes, I said fixed, not changed!--isn't part of his refresh, then it WASN'T a refresh.

Fite me.  (I'm not coming back to this thread anyway, because THAT WAS THE ONLY FRIGGIN' THING I WANTED TO KNOW.)

....Notorious

True.

[thentor0802]

On 12/9/2021 at 10:37 PM, HowlVoid said:

Wow, first time I've looked at a rework and thought:

Sheesh, that all sounds horrible.

Needless items 

Built nothing on top of what is already established

Needless nerfs 

Wolfgang was a great simple and straight foward character, not anymore I guess. 

YES! I am a wolf main, now I'm not sure if I want to keep playing him even for rushs....

[YelloToaster]

I like the changes. 

• Wolfgang’s linear values are now constants

Especially this one. The ever-changing stats bothered me a lot

However what I don't like is the fact that his hunger stat doesn't seem as relevant to his playstile. Yes it makes you loose your mighty stat but given how quickly you can get it back it doesn't matter that much.

I am also glad you removed the speed bonus. While it will be hard for people to adjust to this change (see all the "Wolfgang is ruined" comments) it really makes for a healthier character pool. You no longer feel like Wolfgang is the only option when going for a boss rush, though he will still be a top pick.

[Psychic Chicken]

After trying the beta, I have mixed thoughts.

I like the change of being able to wear heavy equipment without any speed penalty in mighty form, and the idea of managing strength independently from hunger is fun, but I feel it needs some changes to be interesting and not annoying. For instance, I don't like that you need to lift every single day to stay mighty.

I also feel it doesn't make sense that you lose strength even during combat. No one's got time to stand there and lift weights for 30 seconds while fighting a boss, and besides, how do you even get weaker while you're punching things? You'd think that would be a decent exercise.

My idea: what about a mechanic that allows you to gain time where you pause the strength drain by hitting enemies, that scales with more hits at a cap of like, 4 minutes or something? That would reward you for taking advantage of your strength, and make the duration longer and less annoying. Maybe this mechanic would stop working after 30 minutes of not lifting weights or something, and to get it back you need to lift weights for a total of at least 10 or 15 strength to get it back so lifting is still relevant after earlygame? Just sharing some ideas, I'd love pretty much anything to prolong your strength for a few days or just keep yourself mighty in a fighting situation, nothing too specific.

I also encountered a bug where if anyone leaves while using the gym takes the gym with them. This is already annoying, but what's worse is if the player joins back (most likely after a disconnect), you don't even get your gym back.

Last thing, unrelated to the Wolfgang rework but related to Wolfgang anyway, is I think the powerup animation for Wolfgang's mighty form and Wurt's Merm King upgrade should be visual only. It should only play when you're standing still and you should be able to cancel it with any action.

[firoborn]

no, just running faster, something without Iframes to make it different from wanda/wortox teleports.

Wheeler has a Dash and that is a quick move in a specified direction a sprint is just speed increase for an amount of time they are different things

 

[thentor0802]

1 hour ago, thentor0802 said:

 Yeah he does more damage now since he can stay at x2 permanent at mighty form, but whatever it's not like wolf didn't melt bosses HP anyway, the movement speed is a big oof, but it's not meta changing too. 
 

Now that I think of it. Wolfgang has been nerfed, less HP, takes more damage when wimpy but doesn't reduce damage when mighty????!! Less movement speed. Specially when you compare with other character reworks! They didn't nerf no character in their reworks but our homie wolfgang. 
 This is trash.

[thentor0802]

No one that didn't like wolfgang before will play or like him. And after this rework I believe that even the ones that like the character will also, me included. :'(

[Koomin]

I tried Wolfgang a few times but couldn't stick with it because it made the game feel too easy and unrewarding.  It was like using a bicycle in a running marathon and then feeling like I accomplished something.

I really like Wolfgang's personality and quotes like "is rock what you not get?", have his great mactusk skin from Halloween, and enjoy fighting bosses, so it's a shame he was not worth playing.

This rework and especially the removal of the speed and damage in combat looks like it will make him actually rewarding to play.  Just want to offer a counterpoint to all the people asking who the rework is helping and saying that it won't bring new players, since I will certainly be one, and I would assume there are many others like me.