Is Wurt an abandoned character?

[lakhnish]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

If the majority of Wurts problems are in Mob A.I. And their A.I. Share the same programming with other like minded mobs then Klei will have to add whole new strings of code to the game that separates Merms from the other mobs it shares code with.

Im no game program designer-

Yeah see this is what Toros was talking about and also the fact that you don't read and understand what other people are saying, which then ia followed by paragraphs among tons and tons of posts of just misdirections, misinformation, and just general of you being you, so I'll explain it to you.

Some of the problems with merms is that they don't function the same way as pigs and bunnymen do.

Example: If a merm is attacked, your recruited merms won't defend that merm (they only all defend if the player is attacked). Compare that to pigs and bunnymen that don't have that issue. Here's an example of a merm specific issue.

Some of the problems are shared between the mobs.

Example: The bug where the followers are unable to pathfind to there homes because a strip of water makes them think they can walk through the water for some reason.

If you still don't understand, go look at the bug reports, read them, and please try to understand them for once. Thanks.

Edit: I didn't realize you provided commentary to the bug reports in your quote, PROVING you didn't read them and you don't know what you're talking about!

Spoiler

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

  

 

[Pikapikap]

Feel bad for wurt.

[HowlVoid]

24 minutes ago, Pikapikap said:

Feel bad for wurt.

Me too bud, me too.

When I'm critical of Wurt its because I believe she can be so much more. With the foundation Klei has already created I think she can bring forth the most unique play style out of all the characters.

Fingers crossed.

[minespatch]

6 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I think she can bring forth the most unique play style out of all the characters

"Colonizer simulator 3000"

[Toros]

34 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Yeah see this is what Toros was talking about and also the fact that you don't read and understand what other people are saying, which then ia followed by paragraphs among tons and tons of posts of just misdirections, misinformation, and just general of you being you, so I'll explain it to you.

Some of the problems with merms is that they don't function the same way as pigs and bunnymen do.

Example: If a merm is attacked, your recruited merms won't defend that merm (they only all defend if the player is attacked). Compare that to pigs and bunnymen that don't have that issue. Here's an example of a merm specific issue.

Some of the problems are shared between the mobs.

Example: The bug where the followers are unable to pathfind to there homes because a strip of water makes them think they can walk through the water for some reason.

If you still don't understand, go look at the bug reports, read them, and please try to understand them for once. Thanks.

Thanks for saying it so I didn’t have to.

Do you think an easier solution to the follower pathfinding bug would be when they are deloaded, no longer loyal and trying to go home, just teleport them home?

Wouldn’t require any pathfinding changes and it could hopefully be managed by a shared tag or with a shared component.

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, minespatch said:

"Colonizer simulator 3000"

Well that actually sounds better than what I had in mind:

"Mein reich simulator 3000" 

[Masked Koopa]

56 minutes ago, minespatch said:

"Colonizer simulator 3000"

Uh uh uh! Don't forget, the Merms predate the pigs, which are Maxwell's creation (or came from hamlet, the lore's a little murky on that front). This isn't colonizer simulator, this is the restoration of Mermish independence and reclamation of their land and power.

Nasty pigfolk. 

[minespatch]

1 minute ago, Masked Koopa said:

Nasty pigfolk. 

Both sides are wrong.

I'm just here to eat popcorn and watch them fight.

[Masked Koopa]

1 hour ago, minespatch said:

Both sides are wrong.

I'm just here to eat popcorn and watch them fight.

 

Typical "enlightened scale-less".

[minespatch]

3 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

Typical "enlightened scale-less".

Does that mean fleshies are libertarians? 

[Cookie95]

5 hours ago, Pikapikap said:

Feel bad for wurt.

It's a bit sad to see a character with such a fun concept be in this state. It's not just about the bugs, Wurt had so much potential that was never materialised. Just imagine if she (and merms) could swim, it makes total sense and would make her much more fun and unique to play as (not to mention more popular).

[Masked Koopa]

5 minutes ago, Geo95 said:

It's a bit sad to see a character with such a fun concept be in this state. It's not just about the bugs, Wurt had so much potential that was never materialised. Just imagine if she (and merms) could swim, it makes total sense and would make her much more fun and unique to play as (not to mention more popular).

For what it is worth, I have made a mod that adds that feature to Wurt.

[Cookie95]

11 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

For what it is worth, I have made a mod that adds that feature to Wurt.

Oh thank you, I'll definetely check it out!

[Wendy C.]

8 hours ago, lakhnish said:

followed by paragraphs among tons and tons of posts of just misdirections, misinformation, and just general of you being you, so I'll explain it to you.

Goodness, goodness, goodness me. 
I honestly think I would have been banned from the Forums if I said that combination of words. 

I salute your bravado. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

My point is that these bugs aren’t tied exclusively just to Wurt or to Merm follower A.I. Several other mobs are impacted by these so called “Bugs” 

The only thing that is in this list that actually IS tied exclusively to Wurt- Is all the Merms in a entire server becoming passive once a King is elected.. Klei really should add a way for Wurt to interact with the Royal Tapestry to CHOOSE if she wants the entire Kingdom of Merms to be Aggressive or Passive.

but wurt gameplay is arround follower mechanic, it isnt report for pigs or bunnymens because nobody uses them in that way

if klei fixes merms they will also fix pigs and bunnymens like how they already did with the working mechanic few months ago when klei gave to followers an "improvement" (still kinda buggy but now in the other way) so they would keep chopping and mining instead of being still without doing anything

 

edit: im with you that bunnymen atacking you because you atack a pig must be a intended mechanic since bunnymen are agressive towards players who carry meat so has sense if the bunnymen also atack players who atack other innocent creatures for meat

[lakhnish]

5 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

im with you that bunnymen atacking you because you atack a pig must be a intended mechanic since bunnymen are agressive towards players who carry meat so has sense if the bunnymen also atack players who atack other innocent creatures for meat

If you attack a merm or any other meaty follower (catcoon), the bunnymen doesn't attack you.

It's just soley when you attack a pig.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Well that actually sounds better than what I had in mind:

"Mein reich simulator 3000" 

merm reich simulator 1933

1 minute ago, lakhnish said:

If you attack a merm or any other meaty follower (catcoon), the bunnymen doesn't attack you.

It's just soley when you attack a pig.

hmm i supposed you reported it because it was only working like that for pigs but i think it should be for every innocent creature for how ecoterrorits vegans are bunnymens

[Mike23Ua]

I’m playing Wurt right now in my solo world since my Wes world magically decided it wanted to Delete itself, Couple things I’ve noticed so far- The Hats I’ve been using (Garland, Top Hat, Winter Hat, Beefalo Hat, Football Helm) they don’t look out of place on Wurt well let me rephrase that- they don’t look out of place on the Anglerfish head I’m using on Wurt, for the Default I have absolutely no idea…. As soon as I unlocked Wurt I unlocked a different design for her because I hate the Default look.

This what my Wurt look like Florp-

 

With that said- I’m also obviously using SKINS, so my Top hats would be Jester Hats or Greatest Showman Hats, my Winter Hat is a lime green Santa hat, my head garland are gothic looking Christmas wreaths, and my Beefalo hat is Klaus version.. so maybe they just look out of place on DEFAULT Wurt or with Default skins.. or maybe all those were fixed??

As for Merms losing followership I never ever EVER have this problem because I never carry any more around with me then about 4-8 on travel adventures, (if I want a bunch of Merms in one location I BUILD their houses in that Area..)

Keeping them loyal isn’t a problem and keeping track of which ones you have or haven’t fed isn’t a problem when each of your follower Merms are rocking a different type of hat (yes you can put those on Merms) I usually do different top hat, head garland or straw hat skins just because those are super easy to mass produce.. it is super cute actually and I highly recommend doing it.

Lastly complaining about needing a bunch of fish for her crafts is Equally a stupid complaint, because (& surprisingly not many people are aware of this.) you can get those fish by fishing in a small pond you know the ones naturally in your swamp/all over the world anyway? And IF your carrying an inventory full of these fish around your plain and simply:

Playing Wurt the Wrong Way…

What you NEED to do is gather all the OTHER parts to her Craftables FIRST, and THEN stand by a pond fishing up the fish you need. Now do you remember the part where I said surprisingly not many people know about this? Okay well- you can actually Pre-Craft something if it is a Stationary Structure, as In.. you can BUILD it and CANCEL placing it down- this means that whatever you built.. will “Consume” the resources required to BUILD IT thus freeing up all the inventory slots those structures resources were once occupying, but the Structure itself will REMAIN in your Crafting Tab Highlighted in BLUE, Simply Recraft that structure (at no additional costs to you in resources) to place it where you want it.

So YES you technically can have an entire freaking base in your Inventory of Pre-Crafted but not yet placed Structures ready to throw out like furniture popping out of a Pokéball, this is actually how I used to deal with Deerclops before I started fighting it, I just let it get happy with itself wrecking my base.. and then after it left for the season I would replace my structures.

This is ALSO how I STILL deal with grievers when I don’t feel like rolling back the Server.

WURTS structures (the ones your complaining about fish no longer stacking for) can be PRE-BUILT and left in her crafting tab inventory and LATER Placed where she wants them.

[Mysterious box]

12 hours ago, Primalflower said:

this is such a scathing critique of Wurt that i do not think like... understands that there is more than one way to play her and her character perks have more than one use, and that...perhaps, like, Wurt is simply Built Different, so to speak??

i just... do not understand this at all... On pubs, Endless Dedicated Servers, servers with a specific group of friends, there is not a single situation i can think of in which the merm king dying would be any more than an inconvenience to wurt, lest the wurt is trolling or is misguidedly placing merm houses literally right on top of base/where the human players are, or right at portal. the concept of "merm king dying means merms go hostile" is only an issue in literally, as you said it,

literally one singular endless server experience  that you have seen in which the wurt was cruddyenough to not mind her merms.

This is because...the merm king isn't solely for keeping merms non-hostile, and it feels dishonest of you to type this as if it is...the merm king's notable perks are that he allows warrior merms to spawn, he buffs wurts stats, and giving you various loot for fish (which Mind you, You can get incredibly easily by killing merms or fishing en masse at shoals). At risk of sounding rude, Did you ever stop to think that as sad as it is that fish don't give you special loot per fish, you could set up a fun thing with wurt where you grab a bunch of inedible-to-wurt fish, and then give it all to the merm king for seeds for growing crops, tentacle spots for growing merms, and kelp just for sanity/food?  It frustrates me that many people will look at a mechanic like the merm king solely from the angle of "this is something to pacify merms!" and then when its not necessarily the best at doing that, they do not even consider the million other things that the merm king does. You get what i mean? This is a sandbox video game, things will have multiple uses with various outcomes depending on how you use it, for a very rough way to put it. To be honest, I expected better from you after having read how much you enjoy the ocean..

This, I can absolutely understand the frustration for. It feels like a needless limitation  on whats already like, fine. Its something that can definitely get in the way of strategies that involve... "harvesting" merms  for better or for worse. In spite of that, I raise you that perhaps Wurt as a character is not completely demolished solely from not necessarily being able to constantly kill off merms 15 days out of 70 days in the year, that perhaps wurt doesn't necessarily need to literally constantly be using merms for bosses/fish recycling, and that perhaps perhaps an effort could be made on wurts part to preserve some leaky shacks  that while don't necessarily produce merms in the winter either, still hold 4 merms each for various gathering/harvesting activities.

this frustrates me because throughout your entire rant about how wurt sucks so badly and is designed so poorly, you never cared to mention how unbelievably convenient it can be to utilize wurt's perks that aren't specifically merm minion related, like how Wurt can use fish unbelievably well, it takes 2 ice breems/sunfish to just...almost completely nullify the respective season they combat, and that is not to be undestated as a Comfy As Hell character perk. Or how Wurt only suffers eventual cold damage from wetness & can jump off of boats for free, leading to only the hottest days of summer bothering her if you just have a boat on hand, and spring being 10x less bad as her. These things may seem small on paper but they are incredible late-game conveniences to a character that already has many perks that help her the most during a stereotypical late game.

The weather fish immunity is a flavor perk not something required and even then if we're talking about ignoring weather Warly does it much better and much earlier with much less work involved.

If we're talking about farming the kings loot that was actually viable...back when fish stacking was a thing nowyou'd just be better off doing proper farming than wasting time gathering fish that fill entire slots for random loot.

Merm guards and the kings buff aren't worth the effort outside boss fights or bee queen cheese the boosted stats anchor you to being near base and higher hp on the guards is a double edged sword and even if it weren't you don't want to take merm guards too far as they might get lost forever this is why most players opt to ignore him entirely. Merms are a jack of most trades master of non. And wurt's personal perks can are just done better by others while offering more or have less tedious ways to reproduce without using a specific character.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

As for Merms losing followership I never ever EVER have this problem because I never carry any more around with me then about 4-8 on travel adventures, (if I want a bunch of Merms in one location I BUILD their houses in that Area..)

Because you never have this issue it's not a issue that needs addressed? 

Also if the solution is build them on site then why not use bunnymen and pigs instead?

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Keeping them loyal isn’t a problem and keeping track of which ones you have or haven’t fed isn’t a problem when each of your follower Merms are rocking a different type of hat (yes you can put those on Merms) I usually do different top hat, head garland or straw hat skins just because those are super easy to mass produce.. it is super cute actually and I highly recommend doing it.

Those hats wear out and even then your solution is to invest more resources into a already resource intensive character?

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Lastly complaining about needing a bunch of fish for her crafts is Equally a stupid complaint, because (& surprisingly not many people are aware of this.) you can get those fish by fishing in a small pond you know the ones naturally in your swamp/all over the world anyway? And IF your carrying an inventory full of these fish around your plain and simply:

You somehow think this isn't common knowledge but some people might like to actually play this game with their friends who probably don't want to base in the swamp and even then it's still super time consuming to gather those fish I've legit opted to just using a piggyback for transportation when i don't have the sack. Something to keep in mind is if Wilson (forgive me for using the tired example) has a easier time building follower homes and taking advantage of follower benefits than a character specifically made for it that's a problem and no amount of sweeping is going to change that fact.

[Mantispidae]

Taking a character for a spin will not get you the same results as people who regularly play them. This isn't to say different things happen, just just the more you play a character and the more familiar you are (or have to put up with) their mechanics, the more things stand out.

Non-stacking fish isn't THAT big of an issue... until you realize that it really is stupidly tedious to manage, especially when pond fishing is already a pretty slow and boring process. Feeding the merm king isn't THAT hard... until you start to get annoyed with just how long the damn guy takes to chew, the fact cooking food just to carry over and dump in him is kinda boring and tedious but not the worst... heaven forbid you have smaller foods or things to trade and you gotta wait for those animations and also the merms eat half the items if you built them next to the king. Dealing with the merms becoming aggressive isn't THAT big of a deal- unless you play with friends and want to have the merms at least somewhat close to where you're based (because how many friend groups regularly base in the swamp?) and oh those merms that just get lost? Now they're punching the wilson that went out to get wood because they just got left out there. It's never the "end of the world" that these things happen but they're grating to deal with when you've BEEN dealing with them and it seems like it could just be so much nicer.

Like, its great that merms can be recruited with seeds! It's cool! But the seed loyalty runs out FAST and what happens more than not is that one merm starts walking home in the middle of something and you just lose them, and now his damn house doesn't work because he's not actually dead. And on the occasions where they decide to walk home mid fight, guess what, passive merms (due to the king) wont auto aggro for attacked merms so they just get bored and walk away while whatever boss keeps attacking the others, and you're probably helping, so you likely miss the fact their leaving until the army is almost gone. Is it the end of the world? No. But it certainly is frustrating when you see how WELL other characters like webber and wendy can work with what they got and you KNOW wurt could be, at minimum, a character that at least plays smoothly. But instead its like driving a cart with a loose wheel over a bumpy road when the wheel could have at least been tightened.

I love wurt. Shes adorable. I like building my silly little fish city and even like babysitting the big fat king when I'm playing alone and know that it dying while I'm in the middle of nowhere doesn't mean my friends gonna get punched to death. But man, shes ROUGH. She's not a weak character, or unplayable, I like what she's got- she just feels like a first draft of an essay. Everything is there but it needs a check through or clean up before you lose a letter grade for the quality. She feels really, really good when you start playing her and get going. But she just doesn't hold up over time in a lot of ways that could easily be fixed up with some effort.

[Mike23Ua]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

if the solution is build them on site then why not use bunnymen and pigs instead?

Those hats wear out-

You somehow think this isn't common knowledge-

WURT can’t interact with Pigmen & I would prefer it if she also couldn’t with the Bunnymen either- this is strictly a YOU Problem if your just going to sit & say “Why use Merms when these other recruitable followers work better?”

Yes.. hats wear out over time, But that’s exactly what I would expect them to do in a game that’s sold and advertised as an uncompromising wilderness survival game- If they DIDN’T wear out over time I could just have Merms/Pigs/Bunnymen/Spider infinitely carry around all my different hats for me at 100% durability.

That… isn’t the part I was referring to as not being common knowledge- What I was saying was not common knowledge is being able to pre-craft, cancel placement of, and store an entire base in your crafting tab to place down later.

[Toros]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

WURT can’t interact with Pigmen & I would prefer it if she also couldn’t with the Bunnymen either- this is strictly a YOU Problem if your just going to sit & say “Why use Merms when these other recruitable followers work better?”

Yes.. hats wear out over time, But that’s exactly what I would expect them to do in a game that’s sold and advertised as an uncompromising wilderness survival game- If they DIDN’T wear out over time I could just have Merms/Pigs/Bunnymen/Spider infinitely carry around all my different hats for me at 100% durability.

That… isn’t the part I was referring to as not being common knowledge- What I was saying was not common knowledge is being able to pre-craft, cancel placement of, and store an entire base in your crafting tab to place down later.

Ignoring for a moment that it is absolutely common knowledge that you can pre-craft structures and what are you even talking about anymore, why do you think wurt shouldn't be able to interact with bunnymen?

As a vegetarian, her diet is inherently going to not offend the bunnymen.  Wurt isn't a monster, she lacks the "playermonster" tag both webber and wortox share.  Her conflict is with pigs and pigs specifically.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

WURT can’t interact with Pigmen & I would prefer it if she also couldn’t with the Bunnymen either- this is strictly a YOU Problem if your just going to sit & say “Why use Merms when these other recruitable followers work better?”

Yes.. hats wear out over time, But that’s exactly what I would expect them to do in a game that’s sold and advertised as an uncompromising wilderness survival game- If they DIDN’T wear out over time I could just have Merms/Pigs/Bunnymen/Spider infinitely carry around all my different hats for me at 100% durability.

That… isn’t the part I was referring to as not being common knowledge- What I was saying was not common knowledge is being able to pre-craft, cancel placement of, and store an entire base in your crafting tab to place down later.

Why are you obsessed with hats? Isnt op and wouldnt be op in any scenario. Actually is one of the most annoying with less uses strats i have ever hear

Also, i dont know why wurt shouldnt interact with bunnymen as toros said.

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 “Why use Merms when these other recruitable followers work better?”

Not even close,  not even close...

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

What I was saying was not common knowledge is being able to pre-craft, cancel placement of, and store an entire base in your crafting tab to place down later.

If not common knowledge means people who played only 1h... all players find it by accident in the 1st few minutes of gameplay...

[.]

I believe her relationship with both of kinds and kings should be fixed. But the main problem is the swamps, swamps are dead barrens.