Pick/Axe is still craving for a buff

[SadeceAtakan]

I really appreciate the buff for Pick/Axe since it's really not worth the effort of crafting. But... it still isn't a good choice for chopping/mining tasks. They buffed its damage to match Battle Spear's and now Pick/Axe has 4 Battle Spears worth of durability. But would anyone craft it as a weapon? Glass Axe heavily overshadows it and Golden Pickaxe is just slightly worse than Pick/Axe. Also, I find it ironic that you need to waste 3 inventory slots(pickaxe and axe and thulecite) in order to craft a tool which frees your inventory slots. Please, this poor tool needs more love! I very much like to see Pick/Axe in a good spot because it sounds so cool on paper. I wish it was better in practice as well.

[Gi-Go]

Easy fix is to remove golden axe and pickaxe from craft recipe or swap them for flint ones. 

[douan33]

19 minutes ago, SadeceAtakan said:

I really appreciate the buff for Pick/Axe since it's really not worth the effort of crafting. But... it still isn't a good choice for chopping/mining tasks. They buffed its damage to match Battle Spear's and now Pick/Axe has 4 Battle Spears worth of durability. But would anyone craft it as a weapon? Glass Axe heavily overshadows it and Golden Pickaxe is just slightly worse than Pick/Axe. Also, I find it ironic that you need to waste 3 inventory slots(pickaxe and axe and thulecite) in order to craft a tool which frees your inventory slots. Please, this poor tool needs more love! I very much like to see Pick/Axe in a good spot because it sounds so cool on paper. I wish it was better in practice as well.

I agree with 100% of this. However something else that bugs me is that, at the end of the day it is a tool that provides nothing extra to you.

Sure 42 damage is nice, but it was never neccessary. Especially since it is a tool from the ruins, even using an axe is way more logical than using it as a tool.

Doubled durability is amazing too, however it still doesn't change the fact that it provides basically nothing extra. If I were to run out of my Pick/Axes, why would I go and craft one? I can just make a golden tool instead.

And still, on top of everything, I am not going to craft it. I will only use it if I find it in a chest, which then I might not even take it if my inventory is full.

Here's my idea to make it better

1. Change the recipe

As OP said, it takes inventory space of 3, and on top of that it makes you use a valuable resource which is thulecite. As a green amulet farm I would much rather a thulecite crown with that cost. 

The recipe should be one golden axe, one golden pickaxe and two living logs. Players carry living logs with them at all times for dark sword anyways, or carry them for an early Star Caller's Staff to the ruins. Plus it makes the cost way cheaper and people would consider to use it more.

2. Change the drop rate

No need to keep it long. Make it drop even more from chests, Ancient Guardian, etc.

3. Increase the durability even higher or increase the efficiency

I am not the first one saying this, I am not the last one saying this, and it is not like you as developers don't acknowledge it. Just make it higher, it is an ancient tool after all.

Or since Glass Axe still outshines it (2 twigs 3 moon glasses remind you!), make Pick/Axe cut trees either as fast as or the Glass Axe or make it even faster then the Glass Axe without touching the durability.

4. Alternative solution: a passive effect

It always made sense to me that using Pick/Axe would stop Treeguards from spawning, or at least make them passive when they spawn from trees. It is an ancient tool! Come on! 

Or, it could spawn some tentacles like Thelucite Crown does when you attack/chop/mine with it. It would be great to see those arguably useless tentacles do some actual work, like chopping with you (by damaging the tree).

8 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Easy fix is to remove golden axe and pickaxe from craft recipe or swap them for flint ones. 

5. What the quote says

I mean, we are adding Thulecite onto it. It would make sense to use flint tools and get a thelucite item as if we are forging the thulecite onto the flint items. 

I still stand by my first solution though.

[fishofwar]

This'll probably sound silly, but what if it was unbreakable and balanced around it? It's not like gold tools are hard to make in bulk by the time you get to the ruins anyhow.

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 hour ago, amogus said:

This'll probably sound silly, but what if it was unbreakable and balanced around it? It's not like gold tools are hard to make in bulk by the time you get to the ruins anyhow.

I mean then why craft any extras if they all gonna be unbreakable? 800 durability is a pretty damn big boost considering everything imo

1 hour ago, douan33 said:

1. Change the recipe

1- You don't carry just a pickaxe and an axe - you just carry the thulecite and stack of gold and two stacks of twigs. 
2-thulecite is cheap enough  if you get enough ruin resets and got good ruins. Otherwise just get green gems and duplicate thulecite.

I like the idea you said with shadow tenticles spawning, but I had an idea that it would practically work like Obsidian Axe from Shipwrecked - but I digress cause it feels like the idea for this tool likely wasn't ever to be any bit of spec of complicated besides a reliable durable tool. It's really not an item that we should likely care about too much unless you actively already use it and hoped for some buffs to happen.

I feel like I'd use this item in public servers way more just cause it's handy to do all the tasks.

[Owlrust]

Why not replace the Pick/Axe with a multitool / swiss army knife device that allows you to socket two tools of your choice into one device? You just craft the shell at a Pseudoscience Station and you put the tools you want in it; when you want to swap tools, you just click a button. In my opinion, the incentive to craft more plays into being only able to carry two tools in a single shell.

2 Glass axes, Hammer & Razor, Golden Axe & Golden Shovel, Pitchfork & Garden Hoe; there's a lot of possible combinations. I'm not too worried about the shell not being able to break since we already have plenty of powerful and useful items that also don't break.

[fishofwar]

40 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I mean then why craft any extras if they all gonna be unbreakable? 800 durability is a pretty damn big boost considering everything imo

Touché.

[SirToastyToes]

I think what's so incongruous about the Pick/Axe compared to the rest of the Ancient Tab is that it's not doing something unique. The rest of the Ancient tab is filled with unique abilities only found from those items:

• Magiluminescence: Body slot light, speed boost
• Lazy Forager: Remote item pickup
• Crafting Amulet: Crafting discount
• Star Caller's Staff: Summon campfires
• Deconstruction Staff: Disassemble all craftable (and some uncraftable) items. Only way to get some items like Iridescent Gem and Enlightened Crown Shard
• Lazy Explorer: Short-ranged teleport. While this is replicated with Wortox's Soul Hop, this is useable by all characters.
• Thulecite Club: Speed boost, summons Shadow Tentacles.
• Thulecite Crown: Summons a 100% damage absorption forcefield
• Thulecite Suit: While there isn't a mechanic unique to this, it has some of the best armor stats and no downsides.
• Houndius Shootius: A ranged, infinite turret. Only thing that comes close is Winona's Catapult.

The last few recipes (Thulecite Medallion, Thulecite, Premier Gardeneer Hat) serve niche purposes and thus don't match the pattern.

Simply put, Axes and Pickaxes are cheap, and the Pick/Axe doesn't do anything they don't. You don't get anything unique for your investment of time and Thulecite. I can think of lategame uses for most Ancient Tab recipes, not so for this one.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

25 minutes ago, SirToastyToes said:

I think what's so incongruous about the Pick/Axe compared to the rest of the Ancient Tab is that it's not doing something unique. The rest of the Ancient tab is filled with unique abilities only found from those items:

• Magiluminescence: Body slot light, speed boost
• Lazy Forager: Remote item pickup
• Crafting Amulet: Crafting discount
• Star Caller's Staff: Summon campfires
• Deconstruction Staff: Disassemble all craftable (and some uncraftable) items. Only way to get some items like Iridescent Gem and Enlightened Crown Shard
• Lazy Explorer: Short-ranged teleport. While this is replicated with Wortox's Soul Hop, this is useable by all characters.
• Thulecite Club: Speed boost, summons Shadow Tentacles.
• Thulecite Crown: Summons a 100% damage absorption forcefield
• Thulecite Suit: While there isn't a mechanic unique to this, it has some of the best armor stats and no downsides.
• Houndius Shootius: A ranged, infinite turret. Only thing that comes close is Winona's Catapult.

The last few recipes (Thulecite Medallion, Thulecite, Premier Gardeneer Hat) serve niche purposes and thus don't match the pattern.

Simply put, Axes and Pickaxes are cheap, and the Pick/Axe doesn't do anything they don't. You don't get anything unique for your investment of time and Thulecite. I can think of lategame uses for most Ancient Tab recipes, not so for this one.

didnt the pick/axe mine and chop a little faster?

[SirToastyToes]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

didnt the pick/axe mine and chop a little faster?

That's a good point, but even remembering that it's not enough to tip the scales in its favor, especially after Warly introduced Honey Crystals.

Mining and Chopping lategame is usually done by other mobs, anyway. (Beager, Loyal Merm Guard etc) This is another strike against it.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, SirToastyToes said:

That's a good point, but even remembering that it's not enough to tip the scales in its favor, especially after Warly introduced Honey Crystals.

Mining and Chopping lategame is usually done by other mobs, anyway. (Beager, Loyal Merm Guard etc) This is another strike against it.

well atleast the buff will make picking them from ruins chests worth

[Maxil20]

Personally there’s only 2 things I would want to see from it:

A. Give it hammer functionality. This would solidify it as a multitool, especially since as of right now there isn’t any tool that’s better then a normal hammer, not even a luxury one. In addition, the ruins have many objects/structures to hammer, and you can only craft the pick/axe in the ruins.

B. Make it repairable! Even if it was fairly expensive, like 1 thulecite for a 50% restore, it would greatly help the pick/axe. A stack of thulecite would repair the tool 10 times over while still requiring you to do the ruins if you want to use it. 

[HowlVoid]

There is no hope for this item. 

The problem is a fundamental one with how inventory works. Why would anyone want to have to carry multiple pick/axes when you can just carry a stacks of gold and twigs. Does this item really help save slots? Not really. Not to mention it ages very poorly throughout the game as other superior methods to chop wood become available. 

What this item needs is a gem socket to make it unique and versatile. Now that its durability has been boosted it may be worth it to place a gem in it.

Purple gem- Increases chopping/mining power.

Or

Make it so you don't aggro enemies, including nightmare creature.

Yellow gem- Produces light and sanity when chopping/mining. Each use generates 3 seconds of light/sanity gain.

Red gem- Charges produce heat in a small area around you when chopping/mining. Heats up thermal stones.

Blue gem- Charges produce cold in a small area around you when chopping/mining. Cools thermal stones.

Green gem- Gain more resources from chopping/ mining (Doesn't work on gems on statues).

Orange gem- Automatically pocket resources and the stump. (Removing the need of a shovel).

 

[douan33]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

There is no hope for this item. 

The problem is a fundamental one with how inventory works. Why would anyone want to have to carry multiple pick/axes when you can just carry a stacks of gold and twigs. Does this item really help save slots? Not really. Not to mention it ages very poorly throughout the game as other superior methods to chop wood become available. 

What this item needs is a gem socket to make it unique and versatile. Now that its durability has been boosted it may be worth it to place a gem in it.

Purple gem- Increases chopping/mining power.

Yellow gem- Produces light and sanity when chopping/mining. Each use generates 3 seconds of light/sanity gain.

Red gem- Charges produce heat in a small area around you when chopping/mining. Heats up thermal stones.

Blue gem- Charges produce cold in a small area around you when chopping/mining. Cools thermal stones.

Green gem- Gain more resources from chopping/ mining (Doesn't work on gems on statues).

Orange gem- Automatically pocket resources and the stump. (Removing the need of a shovel).

 

I am only going to boost this comment because I believe this item requires a passive ability.

We. Need. A. Passive. Ability.

I am still with the idea of that it makes treeguards passive, so that chopping trees is actually different than other options, but sticking gems in it also sounds really interesting. I'd make it so that gems break after a while, though. Also I'd add a shovel/hammer ability as a feature, not a gem effect.

[AlternateMew]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Personally there’s only 2 things I would want to see from it:

I like your ideas best. Combined. 

[BeeClops]

7 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Personally there’s only 2 things I would want to see from it:

A. Give it hammer functionality. This would solidify it as a multitool, especially since as of right now there isn’t any tool that’s better then a normal hammer, not even a luxury one. In addition, the ruins have many objects/structures to hammer, and you can only craft the pick/axe in the ruins.

B. Make it repairable! Even if it was fairly expensive, like 1 thulecite for a 50% restore, it would greatly help the pick/axe. A stack of thulecite would repair the tool 10 times over while still requiring you to do the ruins if you want to use it. 

This please, been asking for so long just make it a pick/hammer and it becomes the ultimate tool for ruins clearing, it would be used so much more. I feel like that would be enough to buff it, thou I wouldn't mind the repair.

I used it in it's old state too just because it was convenient for that worldgen as 1 was just enough to clear my whole ruins with honey buff, and I'd deconstruct it at 1% and make another for 1 thule, saves me the twigs/gold/flint inventory slots that i don't want to carry in ruins. 

[Well-met]

This thread is very confusing 

klei literally just made the thing really good now. It doesn't need even more

[QuartzBeam]

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

This thread is very confusing 

klei literally just made the thing really good now. It doesn't need even more

What exactly is the thing 'really good' at now?

As a tool, the Pick/Axe costs 4 Gold, 8 Twigs and 2 Thulecite to do the same work Golden Tools can do for 5.32 Gold and 10.64 Twigs. You're basically using 2 Thulecite to save 1.32 Gold Nuggets and 2.64 Twigs and a bit of time. At a stage of the game where you likely have access to better ways of chopping/mining that doing it manually.

As a weapon, it has amazing durability but the sub-50 damage relegates it to a last resort weapon, unless you are playing Wigfrid (or possibly Wolfgang and Warly), who renders the Pick/Axe kinda amazing due to her innate damage boost bringing it to 53 damage.

[Well-met]

49 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

What exactly is the thing 'really good' at now?

As a tool, the Pick/Axe costs 4 Gold, 8 Twigs and 2 Thulecite to do the same work Golden Tools can do for 5.32 Gold and 10.64 Twigs. You're basically using 2 Thulecite to save 1.32 Gold Nuggets and 2.64 Twigs and a bit of time. At a stage of the game where you likely have access to better ways of chopping/mining that doing it manually.

As a weapon, it has amazing durability but the sub-50 damage relegates it to a last resort weapon, unless you are playing Wigfrid (or possibly Wolfgang and Warly), who renders the Pick/Axe kinda amazing due to her innate damage boost bringing it to 53 damage.

it has a work multiplier

[QuartzBeam]

1 minute ago, Well-met said:

it has a work multiplier

I have factored the 1.33x work multiplier into the numbers I posted. 

[Well-met]

but you make it sound like spending gold is a big deal when every mid game is drowning in it.

not everyone uses bearger or tornados to chop wood

[QuartzBeam]

Just now, Well-met said:

but you make it sound like spending gold is a big deal when every mid game is drowning in it.

I am making the exact opposite argument. Gold nuggets and twigs are probably the cheapest materials in a post-ruins world, so why waste 2 whole pieces of Thulecite to save a bit of gold and twigs?

The only advantage the Pick/Axe offers compared to the Golden Tools is that it does the job in ~80% of the time, which isn't much considering you have to go all the way to the ruins to craft it.

[De_Gatherer]

Don’t know if this has been mentioned already but It would be nice if when something is mined or chopped using the pick/axe you get extra resources. Just a thought 

 

[KrazJoe]

Agree with the make it repairable.

But I gonna say use Flint (kinda like sharpening the tool)

Durability can be lowered and each Flint ends up costing and much as crafting normal axe and pick minus the twig.

I personally never use the pick/axe I carry flints and twigs, craft tool, use, drop it on the floor.

Thing is, raw materials can have other uses too.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i expend all the early game using just 1 pick/axe. The durability buff made them very worth