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how would you improve winona? / farming winona concepts


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i think making generators Require winona to be the one feeling them would keep her from being a swap-on-swap-off char at least a little

as for New stuff, maybe giving her some Farming utility? wormwood is currently the only option for farms really (yes wicker exists but using the book is generally not very good since you miss out on seeds). wormwood is nice but generally misses out on most of the benefits of farming, since sanity is of no issue and no healing from foods, so the variety of crock pot recipes you gain access to sorta  falls flat. a character who can actually benefit while also being good at farming would be nice for some variety.

faster hoeing, and a voxola radio that auto-talks to plants in a decent radius around it maybe ?

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2 minutes ago, Gor Gor said:

(yes wicker exists but using the book is generally not very good since you miss out on seeds)

Wicker is amazing for farming and arguably better than Wormwood for starting farms since she can instantly mass produce a ton of seeds. Going super fast with no regard will get you 50 seeds per book while taking it a bit slower and letting the crops grow a stage or two can get you 100-150 seeds per book. Books aren't particularly expensive so getting that many seeds is phenomenal.

3 minutes ago, Gor Gor said:

wormwood is currently the only option for farms really

I would also argue that, while not nearly as good for farms as others, Maxwell & Woodie do have an advantage in farming due to their ease of access to logs making starting the farm a bit faster. 

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1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Wicker is amazing for farming and arguably better than Wormwood for starting farms since she can instantly mass produce a ton of seeds. Going super fast with no regard will get you 50 seeds per book while taking it a bit slower and letting the crops grow a stage or two can get you 100-150 seeds per book. Books aren't particularly expensive so getting that many seeds is phenomenal.

The reason why Wormwood is great at farming isn't because of his ability to generate tons of seeds but rather his ability to USE that many seeds. Wormwood can fill all available land with seeds and profit the 1 seed back for years worth of hunger in one cycle (ex: pumpkins). While wicker can have tons of seeds, the process of using them all is not as smooth. For wicker its more beneficial to grow crops naturally. She would be a better challenge if the crops she "read" into existence grew giant, but they don't.

You can also use them together if you have friends (rip me)

Quote

I would also argue that, while not nearly as good for farms as others, Maxwell & Woodie do have an advantage in farming due to their ease of access to logs making starting the farm a bit faster. 

I would count Wurt into that group as well.

As for the question: She should be able to move her structures imo. 

The Spotlight could use a couple tweaks too. Having a bigger light radius for starters.

I kinda also wish she had a sprinkler but I don't want to make her situation worse...  

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Maybe Clockworks could have a chance fo drop more gears when she fights them? Or, to ensure they only drop when she’s the one fighting, there could be a small chance of them dropping a gear when hit (and then drop normal loot on death). Cause like, she’s a factory worker, she might be better at “disassembling” the things or hitting them in a way that destroys less of their inner workings? If that makes sense.

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I just thought of something.

What if machines she fuels were more efficient? 

They could use 25% less fuel, as in, fligos, catapults etc all last longer when powered by Winona. (Id like 50% but that may be too much...)

She could also have a higher affinity for "machine type" weapons like the morning star and weather pain, giving her 25% more uses (lasting 25% longer in the case of the morning star).

While I'm at it... Let her start with a rusty pipe, which is an infinite durability spear. 

 

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1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

The reason why Wormwood is great at farming isn't because of his ability to generate tons of seeds but rather his ability to USE that many seeds.

I know why Wormwood is good at farming, I said Wickerbottom is arguably better at starting farms. Wickerbottom can turn 110 random seeds into 100 specific seeds and immediately start doing combos without waiting for the first harvest. Then if she wants more of specific seed instead of the random ones she was given, should she not have enough, she can get a lot more of that seed in just a short amount of time.

Wormwood's bonus for starting farms is he can turn 110 random seeds into 110 random sprouts at the exact same rate everyone else can, except he can do so without making the 3 rigamajigs someone else would need to make. I nearly always make a 4 rigamajig farm setup so that bonus doesn't really do anything to help me start the farm. It's just saving the time it takes to hoe, really.

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Random ideas:

Upgrading armour using trusty tapes.

Some way of making her areal denial tool portable (beefalo mounted catapult is kinda too similar to Walter)

Tools outside of combat (eg: auto plant waterer, but this would still probably be a "pick n' switch" structure)

I'd like to see some sort of gadget that she can make and carry around.

Little nitre powered carts that can transport resources via a eyebone/beefalobell clone or be used to ram into mobs.

That's all I got.

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I would rather build around the Handywoman title than giving her some random farming perks.

 

Since she is “handy” she knows how to handle tools (and maybe weapons?) in a such way to get the most out of them, so when she is using tools (including bug net and fishing rod) they last longer. I wouldn’t be afraid to make it 150% or 200% of its original durability so it is noticeable and make her worth considering when choosing a character into a new world.

Also, I would give her the ability to get 100% resources back when she is hammering and 50% if it’s burned. Since she is putting the extra effort in to getting everything back, she has to hit the hammered thing 8 times thus it halves the hammer's durability. For balance reasons I would make the hammer to not benefit from the durability perk mentioned in the above paragraph.

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Winona could gain the ability to stack damaged armors and weapons, since this seems to be a gripe of many players. It would fit her theme of optimization and tinkering well, and give her a utility role for using inventory space better while playing alone as well as helping out friendly players.

Concept:

Select a damaged weapon / armor and drop it on another damaged weapon / armor of the same type in your inventory. The crafting animation follows. Consume both armors / weapons and obtain a new one with the arithmetic sum of their current percentage plus a repair bonus (below).

This perk would also repair the armor by a certain amount, depending of their rarity (let's say +15% for easily obtained armors like grass suits, +10% for log suits and +5% for rarer items like marble suits and night armors - the numbers are subjects to change).

For example:

Combining two grass suits of 20% and 30% respectively: (0.2 + 0.3) + 0.15 = 65%.

Combining three night armors with 3%, 5% and 60% respectively: ((0.03 + 0.05) + 0.05) + ((0.6) + 0.05) = 78%.

 

It would give an incentive to combine armors with low durability to save up space, while getting a small bonus, while combining armors of high durability would be discouraged since any overflow % would be lost. It would be helpful while still not being subject to abuse, since you still have to gather resources and craft new armors eventually.

Would only apply to armors / weapons, since there is no way in the game currently to repair them.

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I don’t think Winona should be a farmer, she’s a factory worker not a farm girl.

She’s not a Rancher.. she’s a Wrencher.

Feel like she if she got Anything related to farming... maybe a robotic gardening machine that tills, ho’s, waters etc with little robot arms and stuff (think The Jetsons)

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16 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Winona could gain the ability to stack damaged armors and weapons, since this seems to be a gripe of many players. It would fit her theme of optimization and tinkering well, and give her a utility role for using inventory space better while playing alone as well as helping out friendly players.

Concept:

Select a damaged weapon / armor and drop it on another damaged weapon / armor of the same type in your inventory. The crafting animation follows. Consume both armors / weapons and obtain a new one with the arithmetic sum of their current percentage plus a repair bonus (below).

This perk would also repair the armor by a certain amount, depending of their rarity (let's say +15% for easily obtained armors like grass suits, +10% for log suits and +5% for rarer items like marble suits and night armors - the numbers are subjects to change).

For example:

Combining two grass suits of 20% and 30% respectively: (0.2 + 0.3) + 0.15 = 65%.

Combining three night armors with 3%, 5% and 60% respectively: ((0.03 + 0.05) + 0.05) + ((0.6) + 0.05) = 78%.

 

It would give an incentive to combine armors with low durability to save up space, while getting a small bonus, while combining armors of high durability would be discouraged since any overflow % would be lost. It would be helpful while still not being subject to abuse, since you still have to gather resources and craft new armors eventually.

Would only apply to armors / weapons, since there is no way in the game currently to repair them.

I thought you meant she should be able to “stack” armor, as in, if she wears both a log suit and a pig skin helmet their protection stacks up. Or winter clothing, for example a breezy vest and a beefalo hat would combine their cold protection when worn by her. Which would be a cool mechanic

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3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I just thought of something.

What if machines she fuels were more efficient? 

They could use 25% less fuel, as in, fligos, catapults etc all last longer when powered by Winona. (Id like 50% but that may be too much...)

She could also have a higher affinity for "machine type" weapons like the morning star and weather pain, giving her 25% more uses (lasting 25% longer in the case of the morning star).

While I'm at it... Let her start with a rusty pipe, which is an infinite durability spear. 

 

how about make other chacater need to waste 25/50% more fuel?

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42 minutes ago, Dark Vapor said:

Or winter clothing, for example a breezy vest and a beefalo hat would combine their cold protection when worn by her.

Insulating clothing already stacks with other insulating clothing (but not thermal stones).

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I usually prefer the carrot, and not the stick approach: one way to make Winona more appealing and not such a swap-on&off character she currently is (debatable) would be, like Void pointed, to give her a bon in refueling department - anything between 5% and maybe 25%-35% reduction for her specialized builds' (both generator types) fuel maintenance and a minor bon (5%-10% cost reduction) for general refueling (Flingo).

Still, Celestial Portal could've had a 20 days cool-down per player re-swapping to mitigate somewhat this instant character pick-and-drop shenanigan and emphasize more game's Survival aspect plus choice consequences.

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If Winona did most actions faster,(like picking grass, unwrapping bundles, tending plants, etc.,) that'd add a lot of appeal to her character, and it'd make her synergize with Wickerbottom and her applied silviculture quite nicely. I think it'd also be fitting for her to lose sanity near fire at the same rate Willow gains it, having PTSD from the factory fire. As for building, I think she should build faster no matter what her hunger is, but have a faster hunger loss like Wolfgang. It'd also be cool if she could use tools more efficiently (chopping trees, smashing structures, etc) so it takes less hits to complete the task. That last one is just an idea, it might make her too complicated if we add too many perks. *cough* Walter *cough*

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How would I improve Winona... That's a very good question.  Personally I would replace her with Wagstaff.  But hey,  that's just me.  But on a serious note I would probably give players a reason to continue playing her after placing down a generator and some catapults,  Since she is very boring to play.

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I think the solution lies in giving her more perks for herself, taking her out of the "pick and swap" zone character.

Some of the ideas I've read that would definitely work for her, are spot on, and should have been there for her from the start:

10 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Winona could gain the ability to stack damaged armors and weapons, since this seems to be a gripe of many players. It would fit her theme of optimization and tinkering well, and give her a utility role for using inventory space better while playing alone as well as helping out friendly players.

 

14 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

She should be able to move her structures imo. 

The Spotlight could use a couple tweaks too. Having a bigger light radius for starters.

 

13 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

What if machines she fuels were more efficient? 

Also regarding this suggestion:

12 hours ago, 0xF741B84C said:

Since she is “handy” she knows how to handle tools (and maybe weapons?) in a such way to get the most out of them, so when she is using tools (including bug net and fishing rod) they last longer. I wouldn’t be afraid to make it 150% or 200% of its original durability so it is noticeable and make her worth considering when choosing a character into a new world.

Probably with weapons it could be somewhat OP, but since she's "work" related and optimization, how about this instead: allowing her to use her tape, just once, on tools, restoring back 50% of durability to said tool. This can be done just one time per tool. This could include, as OP said, bug nets, fishing rods, Tiling Hoe, etc.
For someone who's very into tinkering and mechanics, taking care of her tools and knowing how to handle them should be an important part of her.

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TBH, her spotlight is so underwhelming i don't even mind it vanishing. It has no uses, it's not effective nor cheap. It will never replace torches or literally any other source of light, specially after last update.

What i would like seeing as some have mentioned are new gadjets, such as:

  • A watering Sprinker (automatic so it only waters soil when its somewhat dry) so this doesnt replace flingos.
  • A Voxola radio: could either give or drain sanity (which could have some niche uses) but also helps plants being happy. 
  • Something like a training dummy. Which could attract lesser hostile creatures like batilisks and spiders, but wont have any effect on smarter mobs like Shadows, McTusk, etc. I imagine this dummy being similar to a scarecrow and needing to be repaired after a couple days.
  • Mechanic Fan, that requires winona to spin a handle to make it work, providing dryness for others (maybe also cooling) at the cost of hunger for Winona.

As of extra unique perks:

  • I think it would be cool for her to be able to repair burnt structures. (less need for commands)
  • Extra damage and durability when using Hammers. 
  • Winona loses sanity when her gadjets are destroyed (give her some downsides so she is not a female Wilson after she's done building catapults)
  • Increased sanity drain when raining (she is scared her inventions could rust)

Just some random ideas. i like the concept of Winona being the one powering or using her gadjets so others can benefit. That's what will make her needed, even after building catapults.

Winona's inventions could use a new mechanic: maintenance. If her inventions do not receive maintenance they will stop working and will cause Winona to lose sanity. Maintenance could use basic and cheap items.  This would also encourage people to keep playing as Winona

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