ROT, and the ocean.

[DrMcGillacactus]

I can't help but notice that many people contribute the ocean and it's updates to Return of them, and while yes it was the introduction to seafaring, I don't see why Klei would keep ocean content updates tied to the ROT updates.

Even after return of them is finished, I believe they will continue to add things to the ocean to fill all the emptiness. I don't think it will ever be as fleshed out as Shipwrecked give how it is built, but I hope at the very least it will become much more full of life and things to do as it progresses.

[Roodmas]

I guess I never thought of it that way, but you are right. I hope this is going to be the case and they'll give us ocean updates every now and then

[Well-met]

Definitely. I see no reason they have to be tied

[Szczuku]

Sure ocean isn't tied to RoT.

But Klei said that they are ready to end RoT.

That probably meant that they won't continue to make monthly updates. So even if they will update ocean ,we'll probably have to wait a few months more.

[Roodmas]

23 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

That probably meant that they won't continue to make monthly updates.

Even if it's not all about Return of Them, they are planning 3 content updates this year, so we have at least those to look forward to.

As for what happens after RoT, there are still characters to be refreshed, possible quality of life updates, dare I say new characters, so they might as well stick to the monthly update pattern, who knows?

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

Sure ocean isn't tied to RoT.

But Klei said that they are ready to end RoT.

That probably meant that they won't continue to make monthly updates. So even if they will update ocean ,we'll probably have to wait a few months more.

Dont starve together went from being on row 66 of top paid games on Xbox live to row 12..

To put that into perspective for you- Minecraft sets in about row 3, with of course the king of games (GTA V) on row 1

DST has probably dropped out of row 12 by now, but the point still stands: Whatever Klei is doing... it would be a wise investment to keep doing because that’s clear undeniable evidence that it’s working.

If the goal of these monthly updates are to make the game increase in popularity then I’m pretty sure the top paid games on Xbox list is a good goal to strive for.. & even after RoT ends I hope they’ll continue to aim for monthly updates.

Think about it.. the most loved updates didn’t even add any new content, it just gave us more control over what was already in the game, Hell man Klei’s goal could be just to simply introduce ONE new mob per month into the game... and I’m sure people would appreciate that.

But what makes people lose interest is when a game ceases to get updates at all.. And realistically I don’t see Klei hitting that point ANYTIME soon.

They sold majority shares of Klei to Tencent so they could provide us with better updates- and with ideas like Elevated foundations of land still not implemented into the game.... dare I say this:

DST still has plenty of room to expand & grow.

[HojMcFoj]

5 hours ago, DrMcGillacactus said:

I can't help but notice that many people contribute the ocean and it's updates to Return of them, and while yes it was the introduction to seafaring, I don't see why Klei would keep ocean content updates tied to the ROT updates.

Even after return of them is finished, I believe they will continue to add things to the ocean to fill all the emptiness. I don't think it will ever be as fleshed out as Shipwrecked give how it is built, but I hope at the very least it will become much more full of life and things to do as it progresses.

I know the others have already touched on this, for now the ocean is just a major part of RoT because it was the lunar island landing that made the sea sailable, and it had major inputs to stuff like the lunar grotto. I think that they'll add a few more things to the oceans after RoT them is finished, but they honestly might just be a new mob here or there or maybe just some QoL changes.

[Mysterious box]

Personally since I usually play wurt I mostly ignore sea content aside from rushing lunar as there's very little benifit for her to play at sea as food is too scarce and most sea content mostly benifits sea content if there was one thing i hope they end return of them with it'd be a reason for wurt to interact with sea content aside from the lunar rush.

[GenomeSquirrel]

With the very low engagement I’ve been seeing, I hope they abandon it. Pearl is more of an extremely difficult area to vandalize than something players seek out for fun or items. It’s very rare for a player that isn’t Woody to seek the lunar islands. Even I realized it’s usually easier to get kelp from 4 land locked boats than it is to sail the ocean. I never see people use sea weeds or sea fishing rods, even for the land neighboring wobsters.
 

No one is engaging in sea content, and I don’t think it can be redeemed.

[Roodmas]

3 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

It’s very rare for a player that isn’t Woody to seek the lunar islands.

Not true at all, there's plenty of stuff on the island that are worth going there for, and not just niche things. Anenemies for different farms, glass cutters, moon glass axes (incidentally the one thing Woodie doesn't need), stone fruit bushes... sure you can live without these, but they are excellent options worth finding the island for. You also need the island for Wigfrid's sanity song.

I don't want to judge the content leading up to the statue assembly quest, because we don't know its payoff yet. Hopefully we'll figure out soon.

As for the rest of the water content, yeah I can't argue with that. I personally enjoy sailing, and I always want to find materials for salt boxes or maybe replant some seaweed flowers, but I can agree that these processes are tedious, and this tediousness is difficult to change at this point, with so much content relying on how boats work currently. I wish I had a bigger incentive to farm barnacles for barnacle nigiri, but I will probably only do it late game when I just want to kill time.

They should make boats cheaper to build (its cost is ridiculous right now), masts should give us more speed, and boats should be more responsive to steering. Maybe we could have an option to build a slightly smaller boat, less space for extra stuff but enough for the basics. OR, what if building a boat would already include some pre-built stuff, like a steering wheel, an anchor and one mast? Just some ideas.

[Maxil20]

I don't get why people complain about the ROT ocean as if SW's ocean was this holy land that was filled with content that you always seeked out for. SW might have a bit more, but that doesn't mean it has a significant amount of additional content:

-There's very few things you would actively seek out lategame. Besides Yarr, the Volcano, and Swordfish, you basically relocated just about anything you needed from the ocean to be close to base.
-The ocean was still very empty. Sure, the biomes might have been more diverse, but the deep ocean is as Barren as you can get. You basically only went there to track out uncharted territory, fight some swordfish, or spawn the quacken. 
-Most of SW's core gameplay still takes place on land. Sure, there are way more then 2 islands in SW, but unless you are making a base island you have very little reason to ever Return to the other islands again, unless you are terraforming them for decor or need specific materials from them.

The SW ocean does get a considerable amount of things done that I wish ROT did (I want to use rainbow jellyfish for rainbow light decor), but at the end of the day it's not anything I would actively wish for.

As for ROT's ocean, I think it's alright right now. There's a decent amount of places of interest which leaves room for even more, and I enjoy the relatively calming experience it brings. In addition, I think the way Klei makes mobs spawn nearby players (such as the schools of fish) pretty clever. DS SW is known for being really demanding in terms of specs compared to ROG, and part of this can likely be blamed on the fact there were a significant amount of entity/entity spawners on the map. Making it so mobs only spawn when the player is close to the ocean and having very few dedicated spawners does cut down on performance issues quite a bit.
 

[Well-met]

11 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I don't get why people complain about the ROT ocean as if SW's ocean was this holy land that was filled with content that you always seeked out for. SW might have a bit more, but that doesn't mean it has a significant amount of additional content:

-There's very few things you would actively seek out lategame. Besides Yarr, the Volcano, and Swordfish, you basically relocated just about anything you needed from the ocean to be close to base.
-The ocean was still very empty. Sure, the biomes might have been more diverse, but the deep ocean is as Barren as you can get. You basically only went there to track out uncharted territory, fight some swordfish, or spawn the quacken. 
-Most of SW's core gameplay still takes place on land. Sure, there are way more then 2 islands in SW, but unless you are making a base island you have very little reason to ever Return to the other islands again, unless you are terraforming them for decor or need specific materials from them.

The SW ocean does get a considerable amount of things done that I wish ROT did (I want to use rainbow jellyfish for rainbow light decor), but at the end of the day it's not anything I would actively wish for.

As for ROT's ocean, I think it's alright right now. There's a decent amount of places of interest which leaves room for even more, and I enjoy the relatively calming experience it brings. In addition, I think the way Klei makes mobs spawn nearby players (such as the schools of fish) pretty clever. DS SW is known for being really demanding in terms of specs compared to ROG, and part of this can likely be blamed on the fact there were a significant amount of entity/entity spawners on the map. Making it so mobs only spawn when the player is close to the ocean and having very few dedicated spawners does cut down on performance issues quite a bit.
 

I haven't played shipwreck and I never compare it to shipwreck.

yet I still find the RoT sea lacking.

[Roodmas]

17 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I don't get why people complain about the ROT ocean as if SW's ocean was this holy land that was filled with content that you always seeked out for. SW might have a bit more, but that doesn't mean it has a significant amount of additional content:

It's not that in SW there's a ton of reason to actually STAY on the waters (unless you are that pirate guy, never played with him). But to me the SW ocean feels much more... alive? Inviting? RoT ocean is dark and dull for the most part, and the points of interest take too long to find (again, ships are too slow). Gnarwhails and sharks were a great addition to RoT because they make the ocean more lively, but they are so rare that they might as well not exist. Which wouldn't be a problem if there were some more common ocean mobs. Yes, there are schools of fish, but I only ever do ocean fishing to catch 'em all, and maybe for wobsters if I base close to them.

You mentioned that in SW you relocate most ocean stuff close to your base, but that's just what we do when we build bases in any of these games. You still have to go out there and collect these things, and that exploration is part of the appeal of the game.

[GenomeSquirrel]

35 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

Not true at all, there's plenty of stuff on the island that are worth going there for, and not just niche things. Anenemies for different farms, glass cutters, moon glass axes (incidentally the one thing Woodie doesn't need), stone fruit bushes... sure you can live without these, but they are excellent options worth finding the island for. You also need the island for Wigfrid's sanity song.
 

There may be stuff there, but few players are interested in it is the point I was making. I've never seen a Wigfrid use the sanity song for example, but I've seen other songs, particularly the healing. I love the moth pet myself, I've went to the lunar island a few times for that alone, but the more I sail, the less I want to do it. 

[Roodmas]

11 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

There may be stuff there, but few players are interested in it is the point I was making. I've never seen a Wigfrid use the sanity song for example, but I've seen other songs, particularly the healing. I love the moth pet myself, I've went to the lunar island a few times for that alone, but the more I sail, the less I want to do it. 

It's a shame if they aren't interested, they're missing out on pretty damn useful items.

Wigfrid's sanity song is useful against fuelweaver, especially if used alongside the insanity aura diminishing song.

I get what you're saying, though. And I wish it was easier to get to these things, maybe more people would have the incentive to discover the current content we have.

[Mike23Ua]

I am just going to assume that in the very beginning when Klei announced the first return of them update Klei said they knew it would feel lacking in content: But they wanted to release that now to lay the foundation down for all updates to follow it.

Now correct me if I’m wrong about this: But “Foundation” means something that will be the starting point of all content to come after it.

We have a sailable ocean now.. that can continue to be filled with content to make more interesting but.... more importantly: We have a Sailable ocean now to set sail into new horizons and explore new territories (new LAND BIOMES... not more ocean content)

The Ocean should only ever be a vessel in which to travel to interesting locations.

Even in ATLAS (an actual pirate game) ocean content is about as boring as the game can get.. the fun is engaging in at sea warfare with other pirates OR more importantly.. exploring unique islands, each one with its own unique resources, mobs and hazards.

Now here’s the trick to that: most These “Resources” are the same types of Resources you can get on other islands used to create the same types of recipes but.. the trees, bushes, creatures, iron rocks etc you collect those resources from will look distinctive to the island they are on.

That right there is Dont Starve Togethers biggest downfall- WHERE are the dense jungle biomes full of hostile living plants and intelligent Pigmen wearing grass skirts and face paint carrying spears and fighting like warrior tribes? 
 

It is not and never has been the Ocean content itself that makes shipwrecked so engaging: it’s the biomes you sail into with unique mobs and resources.

As for DST- the majority of its biomes are one big cluster you can walk in a straight line from point A to point B to gather..

And I’m sick of it Klei..... I’m playing a 2021 game still using a formula it had in 2015.. WHERE are the exciting new biomes that are separated by sailing to them on boats? WHERE are the Elevated cliffs of land requiring me to navigate my character around, over, under etc...?

WHY is it taking this game, this franchise so long to develop into the greatness I know it’s destined to someday become? 
 

guys please play atlas, please play shipwrecked, please play Spelunky or even Minecraft, and then- Turn DST into the game that outshines all of them combined.

What I Want: Truly randomly generated worlds for endless replay value, new ISLAND biomes that require sailing to, New challenges that prevent me from walking in pretty much a straight line to gather all the resources I need (cliffs, ledges etc..) more mobs, creatures, resources, things to see & do.

And at this point I’m confused.... each RoT update Klei adds a new “structure” that seemingly makes it easier for longer trips on boats such as faster sails with Malbatross mast, lightning proof masts, tackle boxes, fishing lures etc..

What is the point in all this if they DON’T plan to add content that keeps us out & exploring the ocean?

To me and I truly mean no offense to the kind folks at Klei who have busted their butts the last couple years with Return of Them updates: It feels like an update that is still very much in Beta stages.

like the ocean still feels barren & with little to do, there’s not many places to actually sail to and explore, it just feels highly like a work in progress.. it has potential to be truly amazing but will Klei ever reach its full potential?

Dont get me wrong I’ve loved all the updates so far, but when we reach that last one.. I hope it’s Huge & everyone enjoys it.

[GenomeSquirrel]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

the dense jungle biomes full of hostile living plants

swamps never get the credit they deserve for carnivorous plants; that's where flytraps, sun dews, and pitcher plants grow

[SaphironX]

The ocean definitely needs more. It’s a bit barren right now.

We need another landmass, or even a continent of sorts. I know they aren’t eager to but with dst overtaking the original so completely I’d be so up for shipwrecked type content, paid or unpaid.

Imagine what this game will become if it remains profitable for a few more years.

4 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I don't get why people complain about the ROT ocean as if SW's ocean was this holy land that was filled with content that you always seeked out for. SW might have a bit more, but that doesn't mean it has a significant amount of additional content:

-There's very few things you would actively seek out lategame. Besides Yarr, the Volcano, and Swordfish, you basically relocated just about anything you needed from the ocean to be close to base.
-The ocean was still very empty. Sure, the biomes might have been more diverse, but the deep ocean is as Barren as you can get. You basically only went there to track out uncharted territory, fight some swordfish, or spawn the quacken. 
-Most of SW's core gameplay still takes place on land. Sure, there are way more then 2 islands in SW, but unless you are making a base island you have very little reason to ever Return to the other islands again, unless you are terraforming them for decor or need specific materials from them.

The SW ocean does get a considerable amount of things done that I wish ROT did (I want to use rainbow jellyfish for rainbow light decor), but at the end of the day it's not anything I would actively wish for.

As for ROT's ocean, I think it's alright right now. There's a decent amount of places of interest which leaves room for even more, and I enjoy the relatively calming experience it brings. In addition, I think the way Klei makes mobs spawn nearby players (such as the schools of fish) pretty clever. DS SW is known for being really demanding in terms of specs compared to ROG, and part of this can likely be blamed on the fact there were a significant amount of entity/entity spawners on the map. Making it so mobs only spawn when the player is close to the ocean and having very few dedicated spawners does cut down on performance issues quite a bit.
 

I think what it’s missing is destinations, new islands, new biomes. And maybe a few more really great items for QOL.

Like the salt box is great, I like warly and having those is goddamn amazing. But I feel like a lot of the ocean doesn’t offer that? 

Like the sharks, scary the first time, but so not worth hunting or killing. Like if I could make traps that annihilated worms and hounds better than tooth traps from them, like 2-4 shark teeth per shark for a superior trap, that would be worth it. Or something like that, maybe a sweet set of shark armor or a shark jaw weapon that’s great.

As it is they’re just a long fight with a few smacks between every triple bite attack before they jump In the water, so once they swim off I never pursue. Why bother?

[Cheggf]

Beefalo taming is a good comparison, I think. It was added in A New Reign and despite A New Reign ending in 2017 beefalo taming still got some new stuff this year.

On 4/8/2021 at 10:34 AM, Szczuku said:

Sure ocean isn't tied to RoT.

But Klei said that they are ready to end RoT.

That probably meant that they won't continue to make monthly updates. So even if they will update ocean ,we'll probably have to wait a few months more.

What do you mean "Probably means no more monthly updates"? When A New Reign ended there was still at least one update every month up until A New Reign.

21 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

With the very low engagement I’ve been seeing, I hope they abandon it. Pearl is more of an extremely difficult area to vandalize than something players seek out for fun or items. It’s very rare for a player that isn’t Woody to seek the lunar islands. Even I realized it’s usually easier to get kelp from 4 land locked boats than it is to sail the ocean. I never see people use sea weeds or sea fishing rods, even for the land neighboring wobsters.
 

No one is engaging in sea content, and I don’t think it can be redeemed.

Everything you said can also apply to the caves & bosses. Basically everything except walking around on the surface and pressing spacebar, really. Most people don't engage with most content.

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Everything you said can also apply to the caves & bosses. Basically everything except walking around on the surface and pressing spacebar, really. Most people don't engage with most content.

And is that really a bad thing? Just because people don’t engage in it doesn’t mean Klei is wasting their time in adding it.

because some people like doing certain things and others... like doing other things.

some want to explore the whole world never settling down and building a base, then once their bored of that world delete it for a new start & possibly as a different character.

Some people enjoy rushing boss fights I guess for the thrill of it and because they can?

Some people like to stay in one area building a massive mega base with most challenging content turned completely off-

Some like to do that same thing but with challenges such as Deerclops attempting to crash their base.

Some people enjoy the fishing simulation or the farming simulation.

some people enjoy giving Warrior king belts to Pig King to get hilariously slapped around by giant wooden signs.

Some people wish there was no pig king at all & refuse to use him once found.

some people play characters who legit can’t use him. 
 

I mean there’s really no right or wrong way to play DS/DST just like with Lunar Island 80% of my Xbox friends list don’t even know you can build a boat yet.... 

But “I” know you can, and I know that somewhere out there in the ocean waiting for those friends is Lunar Island, full of unique biomes, mobs & content.

Its out there.. waiting for them to explore when they’re ready for it/stumble upon it.

[W0l0l0]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

And is that really a bad thing? Just because people don’t engage in it doesn’t mean Klei is wasting their time in adding it.

because some people like doing certain things and others... like doing other things.

some want to explore the whole world never settling down and building a base, then once their bored of that world delete it for a new start & possibly as a different character.

Some people enjoy rushing boss fights I guess for the thrill of it and because they can?

Some people like to stay in one area building a massive mega base with most challenging content turned completely off-

Some like to do that same thing but with challenges such as Deerclops attempting to crash their base.

Some people enjoy the fishing simulation or the farming simulation.

some people enjoy giving Warrior king belts to Pig King to get hilariously slapped around by giant wooden signs.

Some people wish there was no pig king at all & refuse to use him once found.

some people play characters who legit can’t use him. 
 

I mean there’s really no right or wrong way to play DS/DST just like with Lunar Island 80% of my Xbox friends list don’t even know you can build a boat yet.... 

But “I” know you can, and I know that somewhere out there in the ocean waiting for those friends is Lunar Island, full of unique biomes, mobs & content.

Its out there.. waiting for them to explore when they’re ready for it/stumble upon it.

It's a problem when people get bored of the game and the other things that they don't want to do isn't enough to keep them engaged. Eg: If seafaring is too tedious when a person spends a lot of time on the surface, when they get bored of Don't Starve Together the seafaring option is too inaccessible to them to continue to play.

In addition to this, it can partially split up the community, and form a barrier between people who can do all the things and people who can't, finding it difficult to make the transition. This one isn't a huge deal (and other things such as lore and art also do similar things), and might even be a good thing.

One more problem is that content focused on certain things won't excite people who do not engage with it. Klei will be putting effort into context that is diluted to only a small number of people. That is indeed a problem. For example, to me, Year of the Beefalo is nothing. It's not financially good for Klei, and it does hurt the game if content is inaccessible. Playing the game in different ways is great so long as large parts of it aren't completely excluded, otherwise it's kind of a shame. 

[GenomeSquirrel]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

 

Everything you said can also apply to the caves & bosses. Basically everything except walking around on the surface and pressing spacebar, really. Most people don't engage with most content.

Most people I see start using lanterns as soon as they have the materials, so I’d argue that most players at least passively engage in it. Even deeper in the caves is regularly used as a bulk gear source for fridges and flingos.

Bosses have the fundamental problem of dropping materials for one person to benefit, but having health scaled assuming multiple players would fight them. It was designed for failure. It can be an interesting way to spend a few minutes, but awful in terms of risk/reward, and productively using ones time.

[Cheggf]

52 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Most people I see start using lanterns as soon as they have the materials, so I’d argue that most players at least passively engage in it. Even deeper in the caves is regularly used as a bulk gear source for fridges and flingos.

Bosses have the fundamental problem of dropping materials for one person to benefit, but having health scaled assuming multiple players would fight them. It was designed for failure. It can be an interesting way to spend a few minutes, but awful in terms of risk/reward, and productively using ones time.

Are you talking about what your friends do or something? Public players never go underground and they only use lanterns if you hand them to them. Whenever night falls they go to the nearest firepit and sit at it until dawn.

[me real life]

On 4/8/2021 at 3:35 PM, Maxil20 said:

In addition, I think the way Klei makes mobs spawn nearby players (such as the schools of fish) pretty clever. DS SW is known for being really demanding in terms of specs compared to ROG, and part of this can likely be blamed on the fact there were a significant amount of entity/entity spawners on the map. Making it so mobs only spawn when the player is close to the ocean and having very few dedicated spawners does cut down on performance issues quite a bit.

It feels way more thematically appropriate for an ocean, too. SW's ocean has some cool stuff, but it feels very very odd that in a massive vast ocean... I can remember the exact spot where this one dogfish or swordfish is always swimming around. Or the exact spot where this whale is sitting motionless. Or exactly where these stinkrays spend all of their time roaming aimlessly. Or etc.

Ocean are vast and empty, yet full of life just below the waves, some of which might surface to investigate that strange shadow sailing above them either out of curiosity or hunger. And I think RoT's ocean captures that feeling so so well, with things just popping up around you.

[wigfrids hat]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Are you talking about what your friends do or something? Public players never go underground and they only use lanterns if you hand them to them. Whenever night falls they go to the nearest firepit and sit at it until dawn.

you need to visit different types of servers. on social servers there is always one or two people with lanterns by day 5 and in endless ones in particular there is almost always someone first season doing lightbulb runs so everyone can have lanterns(in the last few weeks it's occasionally been me, haha). you are making undue absolutes there