noaIV Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 they will likely need to add some sort of sheilding you can build or well no one can go with in 10-15 blocks of the surface which with just how small the maps are will Very greatly limit your build room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineryMan Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 11 hours ago, klei.ruby said: make sure you get the latest update Heeeell. It's about time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer klei.ruby Posted February 27, 2021 Developer Share Posted February 27, 2021 12 hours ago, noaIV said: they will likely need to add some sort of sheilding you can build See the thread I linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I had my first RAD "Incident" which resulted in Ooooozination ! Celebration ! @Oozinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 after reading all that, it is the first time I do not want the new update to go live. My perception about the game and developers started shifting from very positive to negative... They have not completed rocketry properly - the newly introduced ports do not function desirably and are not convenient at all to use. Rocket module design mixture looks ugly or at least unfinished. Orbital cargo loader does not work. The habitat is too small for a proper build (unless one uses a bug). The rocket length is a big issue as you cannot land an oil rocket on a newly discovered planets - what a crap - why the space is so limited. This renders big oil rockets useless unless you dig all way down to the bottom already small asteroids. They have not increased the size of the initial asteroid yet - so it can be easily done as I understand. The new moonlets are... I have just landed and dug through the moo asteroid to came up complete upset. What is that? Just created to land once and forget about it? In order for the moonlet to be interesting it should contribute to sustainability - it was enough simply to add a chlorine geyser at least (even better a cold temperature chlorine vent) or geyser which generates moos as someone suggested. Something fresh and unique rather than we were in hurry and did not do it properly. I support Babba - I hope they will not drastically change the vanilla game. Currently the vanilla game wins the battle. DLC though has some nice quality of life improvements suffers from small but annoying deficiencies. People were asking to remove meteors (I was not one of them) but now they come up with even worse threat (space radiation) which does not bring any benefits (contrary to regolith). About radiation thing - if you have something killing in the game - go right ahead with the option at the game start to chose from deadly (or very deadly if one have appetite for that) to curable. One would expect something interesting from the radiation update such as a new research tree which may bring bigger rocket habitat, special designed for space buildings, interesting morphs for all creatures, etc. so many nice features. Players indicated that they could wait but get something interesting unique intriguing. I do not understand the logic behind the r/a update. Klei removed meteors and made rocketry easy to start compared to the vanilla game (so it was easy to start but progression with more advanced rockets does not bring many benefits). Now a player cannot go to the surface due to the cosmic rays and it threw back the rocketry? Back to the vanilla game then.... and negative comments in the stream for the DLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pether Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 @KonfigSys plenty of your points are valid and I totally support them. But as I understand this, releasing radioactive stuff KLEI doesnt claim space part to be finished. They just give us more time to play with it and find potential bugs or things to improve. In the mean time, they can polish space things. Also, it gives us better picture if we know the full scope of the game - it is hard to balance the game if main factor is not yet added because others are not perfected yet... It sounds like a paradox for me. If they spent several months making perfect balance before adding HEPs it could happen that after introducing them they must start over because radiation flipped everything upside down... Therefore I don't see an issue with adding radiation to the game. But I agree, there are plenty of space things they will must tweak in the future, for example: Space surface safetly More critters and morphs Moos reproduction Missing vents and geysers More starting asteroids Space cluster more varied and unpredictable Worldgen options including world size and cluster object count Space biome height Rocket balance More QoL More settings 27 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: About radiation thing - if you have something killing in the game - go right ahead with the option at the game start to chose from deadly (or very deadly if one have appetite for that) to curable. This isn't about radiation - game should have option to choose germ severity nevertheless (that would ofc include radioactive germs). Seeing that we got durability setting I really hope we could adjust more game difficulties - including long requested germs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulstar Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 44 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: but now they come up with even worse threat (space radiation) which does not bring any benefits (contrary to regolith). This is not entirely true, it is a "free" radiation source you can use to generate HEPs with particle generators used for nuclear research, especially earlier in the game as unlike wheezeworts or shinebugs, you will always have a surface with cosmic radiation regardless of the biomes. Whether generating HEPs will be useful for anything besides research (or blasting cirtters dead) is another issue, as is the relative usefulness of cosmic radiation as a source compared to other pre-reactor radiation sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, pether said: @KonfigSys plenty of your points are valid and I totally support them. But as I understand this, releasing radioactive stuff KLEI doesnt claim space part to be finished. They just give us more time to play with it and find potential bugs or things to improve. In the mean time, they can polish space things. Also, it gives us better picture if we know the full scope of the game - it is hard to balance the game if main factor is not yet added because others are not perfected yet... It sounds like a paradox for me. If they spent several months making perfect balance before adding HEPs it could happen that after introducing them they must start over because radiation flipped everything upside down... Therefore I don't see an issue with adding radiation to the game. But I agree, there are plenty of space things they will must tweak in the future, for example: Space surface safetly More critters and morphs Moos reproduction Missing vents and geysers More starting asteroids Space cluster more varied and unpredictable Worldgen options including world size and cluster object count Space biome height Rocket balance More QoL More settings This isn't about radiation - game should have option to choose germ severity nevertheless (that would ofc include radioactive germs). Seeing that we got durability setting I really hope we could adjust more game difficulties - including long requested germs That is a reason for my aggressive post - I hope devs will pay serious attention to make changes to rockets (many players asking same things) and get this into the proper shape (if not now but before releasing the game as the finished product). But I recall players were asking for Moo reproduction but... I am really surprised that Klei came up with internal ports but did not come up with a good mean of outside connections rather than through cargo modules. It is not convenient and it does not work (buggy?) and it somehow screwed up cargo loading/unloading also. It was simple enough just to add the 4th building - the life support with filters. Their idea could be valid - having external cargo modules used for storing oxygen/co2 and water/pwater but if rockets have had rooms for many modules (not the case currently - even far from a good stand). I am happy if the DLC takes longer to finalize and costs twice more as long as it contains all nice features. 1 minute ago, Pulstar said: This is not entirely true, it is a "free" radiation source you can use to generate HEPs with particle generators used for nuclear research, especially earlier in the game as unlike wheezeworts or shinebugs, you will always have a surface with cosmic radiation regardless of the biomes. Whether generating HEPs will be useful for anything besides research (or blasting cirtters dead) is another issue, as is the relative usefulness of cosmic radiation as a source compared to other pre-reactor radiation sources. My understanding you have both wheezeworts and shinebugs on the starting asteroid. Also I think you need the nuclear research at the late stage. My point - they brought rockets closer to the beginning of the game and now with R/a it moved further; so in a sense it was counter logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 4 hours ago, KonfigSys said: Back to the vanilla game then.... and negative comments in the stream for the DLC. "Wah, the unfinished game I purchased is unfinished"? Yes, it's not polished. No, moving on to radiation doesn't mean they're not working on anything else at the same time, just that they've got enough feedback on what's currently there for the work they're doing on it. 3 hours ago, KonfigSys said: That is a reason for my aggressive post You might of intended for aggression, but it honestly just comes across as "spoiled child". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: My understanding you have both wheezeworts and shinebugs on the starting asteroid. Also I think you need the nuclear research at the late stage. You have wheezeworts or shinebugs depending on the start, swamp or terra. You can also have none depending on how unlucky your seed is.... Nuclear is gating solid filter and spacefarer module (large habitat..?). So... not so late stage..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RageLeague Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Cosmic radiation isn't even that strong from my experience. Any radiation below 100 you can safely ignore. In fact, I don't think there's a natural source of radiation greater than 100 right now, unless you are unlucky and get a few wheezeworts to generate in close proximity. You don't have to particularly worry about it unless you play with reactors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 2/28/2021 at 5:04 AM, babba said: I had my first RAD "Incident" which resulted in Ooooozination ! Celebration ! @Oozinator Please tell me that with 'oozination' you litterally mean that the dupe was turned to ooze.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 43 minutes ago, Yunru said: "Wah, the unfinished game I purchased is unfinished"? Yes, it's not polished, no, moving on to radiation doesn't mean they're not working on anything else at the same time, just that they've got enough feedback on what's currently there for the work they're doing on it. You might of intended for aggression, but it honestly just comes across as "spoiled child". I am fully aware that it is EA. It is one thing if they do a step and move to another one and redo if it is required. Another thing is to leave it half broken and jump to another. Rocketry is half broken in the current state (compared to the base vanilla game). I do not care how it comes across. This forum is not famous of players jumping to personality evaluation. Aggressive does not mean rude. However, I am surprised why many developers go very similar path. They make a great game (triple AAA), then they decide to do an update or do some changes and they screw up badly in spite of players requests/opinions. Players provided tons of suggestions to the point and now to see the latest of the rocketry is shame. Devs may want to think why a player who supported them just a month ago, turned his head away. Is it because he is just a child or because he is spoiled or he is a grown man who can say what he thinks and then proposes solutions how to improve the situation (I have done numerous suggestions and bug reports)? Stats are the key: vanilla game - overwhelmingly positive; DLC - mostly positive to mixed on Stream. yes, it is in the early access and the sentiments may change as we go with the game but the trend is not great. Here are a few examples (none of them is mine yet) from people who loved vanilla game. Skippy EARLY ACCESS REVIEW POSTED: 20 FEBRUARY It improves a lot of stuff that really just should be available in the base game as far as UI updates go, but then it gimps the game by knee capping the size of the maps you can generate. kristospower 84 products in account 2 reviews Not Recommended ristospower 84 products in account 2 reviews Not Recommended EARLY ACCESS REVIEW POSTED: 20 FEBRUARY First must say Im a huuuuge fan of ONI, after 500h of gameplay I encourage to enjoy the base game. After playing the base, what would you think if someone offers you the same, but managing several asteroids at the same time and exploring moar asterroids and colonizing them? It sounds awesome, isnt it? I thought just the very same, the problem is that the changes that they needed to do to achieve that, makes the game tedious, much slower in pace, to the point that it feels boring right now. The asterois are about less than 1/5 size of the original, building a protective 5 tile thick shield over the surface of asteroid because of the cosmic ray? it is much worse and very boring than steel doors to protect from meteors. Multiply it by very limited space in the DLC. micromanaging dups to take antirad pills? I have SIM 3 and 4 if I want to play sim type game. these two examples have nothing to do with excitement about r/a update but rather bring boring and tedious aspects of this superior engineering game all way to the surface (biome). 56 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: You have wheezeworts or shinebugs depending on the start, swamp or terra. You can also have none depending on how unlucky your seed is.... Nuclear is gating solid filter and spacefarer module (large habitat..?). So... not so late stage..? Either works. The teleport planet (Eden) should have shinebugs (unless someone is extremely unlucky). I do not think it was the right move to lock basic buildings behind the nuclear/radioactive research wall. How solid filter relates to radioactivity? This question is to Klei obviously. it was expected that it would be some new buildings/technologies added and locked by the r/a research. Tossing things around does not create any value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 @KonfigSys I think the main reason for the base game rework is/was that the developers felt that the base game map "was too small to integrate all their future planned stuff". I like how the radiation rays works, with the material dampening - However, I`m waiting for a big map world start option with lots of geysers, metal volcanoes and regolith...Like in the base game. I`m currently playing other games until more crashes are fixed, I am soooo hungry to play ONi ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pether Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, KonfigSys said: That is a reason for my aggressive post As much as I agree with your arguments what need fixing, I believe that constructive feedback will be better received by KLEI and will motivate them more than angry and aggresive behaviour. Some culture didn't hurt anyone. Also, as was noticed - the game is EA so there is no need to be aggresive that not everything atm is finished to the perfection. We can get mad only when unfinished product is released. 51 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: Rocketry is half broken in the current state (compared to the base vanilla game). For me, rocketry is much more fun than in vanilla, even now when it is in (yet) broken state. Obv, this is very subjective oppinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Yunru said: "Wah, the unfinished game I purchased is unfinished"? Yes, it's not polished, no, moving on to radiation doesn't mean they're not working on anything else at the same time, just that they've got enough feedback on what's currently there for the work they're doing on it. You might of intended for aggression, but it honestly just comes across as "spoiled child". Same here. A sad characteristic of these times: Everybody is an expert and if _anything_ is not to their liking everybody also is a victim and feels entitled to demand that the (obviously intolerable!) situation be rectified immediately! One wonders how the human race managed to survive under far worse conditions than today. The actual reality is that what Klei is doing is pretty much the best approach possible. Sure, it is bound to piss some people off. But that hardly matters. The loudest ones are usually those that you very much do not want to listen too, because they typically have very little to contribute besides volume. And if somebody feels entitled enough to start commenting "aggressively"? Best just filter them out completely. These people are just toxic, nothing else. My take is that they get off on it and on their own imagined superiority. BTW, actual reality of Steam Reviews: Yes, ONI took a real hit! Only 95% positive of the last 2k reviews of the last 30 days! It was massively better with 96% positive in the 58k overall reviews. Clearly nobody likes the game these days! Clearly, the whole game has turned into radioactive goo now that nobody wants to touch! Sheesh, some people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Gurgel said: BTW, actual reality of Steam Reviews: Yes, ONI took a real hit! Only 95% positive of the last 2k reviews of the last 30 days! It was massively better with 96% positive in the 58k overall reviews. Clearly nobody likes the game these days! Clearly, the whole game has turned into radioactive goo now that nobody wants to touch! Yeah, but he's got a point, none of that drop was to do with partnering with a Chinese company or anything, right? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, KonfigSys said: building a protective 5 tile thick shield over the surface of asteroid because of the cosmic ray? Just... why..? Cosmic radiation is not lethal. Well.. it was lethal when this topic started and it lasted for less than a day (that's how quickly Klei fixes "game breaking" bugs ) Seems that first update of the 3-week update schedule rarely works... 2 hours ago, KonfigSys said: Either works. The teleport planet (Eden) should have shinebugs (unless someone is extremely unlucky). I do not think it was the right move to lock basic buildings behind the nuclear/radioactive research wall. How solid filter relates to radioactivity? This question is to Klei obviously. it was expected that it would be some new buildings/technologies added and locked by the r/a research. Tossing things around does not create any value. I had a Terra base game (larger map) having no shine bugs... I would expect many seeds will be unlucky in DLC also. As for this DLC in general, even if it stays as is (broken, buggy with small maps), I don't intend to go back to base game because I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yunru said: Yeah, but he's got a point, none of that drop was to do with partnering with a Chinese company or anything, right? :P Well, true. He has got one point as in 1%. Surely that must be more than just some statistical noise, right? 2 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: Seems that first update of the 3-week update schedule rarely works... I would be highly surprised (and very suspicious) if it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Gurgel said: Same here. A sad characteristic of these times: Everybody is an expert and if _anything_ is not to their liking everybody also is a victim and feels entitled to demand that the (obviously intolerable!) situation be rectified immediately! One wonders how the human race managed to survive under far worse conditions than today. The actual reality is that what Klei is doing is pretty much the best approach possible. Sure, it is bound to piss some people off. But that hardly matters. The loudest ones are usually those that you very much do not want to listen too, because they typically have very little to contribute besides volume. And if somebody feels entitled enough to start commenting "aggressively"? Best just filter them out completely. These people are just toxic, nothing else. My take is that they get off on it and on their own imagined superiority. BTW, actual reality of Steam Reviews: Yes, ONI took a real hit! Only 95% positive of the last 2k reviews of the last 30 days! It was massively better with 96% positive in the 58k overall reviews. Clearly nobody likes the game these days! Clearly, the whole game has turned into radioactive goo now that nobody wants to touch! Sheesh, some people... same here. Another "expert" came out who does not even know how to read stats or even read posts. I gave stats for two: one for ONI and one for DLC. ONI is all good - 95 or 96% positive - outstanding results. However, and that was exactly the point - DLC came with 71% (mostly positive) and it actually declined over the past month from 76%. You would expect the game which had already solid base of 96% liking should not drop down in rates when it comes to upgrades. Some people do really believe they are so smart - it is EA, what do you expect - assuming other people are dumb and do not understand it is EA? Now we are talking about imagine superiority. That is exactly point of EA to collect feedback from players and make a game better (some feedback may not be pleasant and generally it is the most valuable). There are so many suggestions that it can be difficult to accommodate all of them; however, there are some obvious (at least for majority players but not for seems to be experts) changes that need to be done. It is up to Klei to accept or reject suggestions and they may piss one or another group doing it; but they clearly have to understand what proportion will support one or another suggestion. It is very often not black and white and a compromise can be implemented in many cases but not all. And yes, they may need to listen to the loudest ones, whether you want it or not (youtubers, die heart supporters or haters). Another point is if a person shout loud it may be important for him/her, don't you think? I was one strong supporter of Klei not only on this forum but other ones. Clearly you do not change from love to hate on no reasons (and it is still not hate from my side but a clearly indicated warning that they started doing something wrong). One voice does not matter even how loud it is, however, I brought you stats - 30% players who bought the DLC and were willing to share their thoughts do not like the update at this point!!! compared to only 4% for the base game and the trend is negative over the past month. Klei games are really a very small niche games - it is not millions of players around the globe. If they start loosing supporters one by one, they may loose the market fast (I was very positive about Klei and its games to remind you). At the end it is Klei decision (now it is Tencent, Chinese company problem after all), as far as I know none of my critics work for Klei or Tencent. There are some bugs that were introduced after recent changes - the process is ongoing and one would expect that it is not polished but introducing new features that are not good rather than fixing game mechanics is a questionable decision. I would expect the dev group to have a plan and move from A to B. Introducing a new game feature (rocket habitat) without proper means of managing it (working and logical piping out/in) sounds at least strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 39 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: I gave stats for two: one for ONI and one for DLC. ONI is all good - 95 or 96% positive - outstanding results. However, and that was exactly the point - DLC came with 71% (mostly positive) and it actually declined over the past month from 76%. You would expect the game which had already solid base of 96% liking should not drop down in rates when it comes to upgrades. You think the DLC reviews have any meaning at this point? Fascinating. But thanks for making my point. There really is nothing I need to add here. Just for the spectators here: The DLC reviews with the "declined" score are 28 in total in the last 30 days, 8 of which are negative. The total ONI reviews are a bit more than 58k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaIV Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 as it stands i have been playing any thing but spaced out and that was before the radioactive update they shrank the maps to where it is not even remotely fun to try to build then try to add things when world gen is not even working right what are they just throwing darts at a wall for planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 One can question the numbers but they exist. Is it statistically viable? Well the ONI player population is relatively small (and of ones who bought the DLC is even smaller), so the numbers are quite accurate. If you were close to marketing, I would go into explanation about focus groups and random samples. If you imply that the game is not finished yet, many games are in ongoing update stage (so they evolve constantly) so the current review snapshot depicts the current game status and changes drastically with new updates. Here we have two different versions: ONI and stand alone DLC and people see them as two different games; so there is no statistical effect to the vanilla game. The steam recommendations are good in a sense that only person who bought a game may leave ONE comment either positive or negative. One cannot post multiple recommendations and hence shift the balance one way or another. Many will not bother with either positive or negative feedback. There is no sense to argue whether they like or dislike the DLC. I did not get you about your point. I thought that you (as an intelligent person) want to apologize that you misread my stat post but "imagine superiority"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 The DLC needs a lots of work, that is for sure Players shall demand what they want, claim what is broken and write what they want to have done and how things should be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 3 hours ago, pether said: As much as I agree with your arguments what need fixing, I believe that constructive feedback will be better received by KLEI and will motivate them more than angry and aggresive behaviour. Some culture didn't hurt anyone. Also, as was noticed - the game is EA so there is no need to be aggresive that not everything atm is finished to the perfection. We can get mad only when unfinished product is released. For me, rocketry is much more fun than in vanilla, even now when it is in (yet) broken state. Obv, this is very subjective oppinion Pether, you do realize that when the product is finished it is already too late to be mad. It is good to be mad while EA as the developers may tweak the product to fit a broader player group; hence, sell more copies and get more money at the end. Look at Cyberpunk 2077 story. They have at least two legal cases (one in US and one in Europe) for misleading marketing, broken promises, delivering unfinished product but it does not help majority of players who bought the game - too late. Regarding the style. I doubt there are sissy in the marketing department of Klei. It is good to have a negative comment on your product while it is being still under development - you have plenty of time to change it or not (if you see that it does bother only a negligible segment of your market). It is much worse when customers calmly work away. I indicated the problems (offered some solutions but obviously could be other options), it is up to Klei to decide to check what changes are to be made, how big is the group of customers who want these or another changes, how many man-hours to spend on one or another problem. Players were asking calmly for years for Moo reproduction in the vanilla game. I do not think it is difficult to implement. It became an anecdote of ONI (people may not need it anymore but just do not understand why it was not done properly at the first place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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