Radiation sickness

[Yunru]

15 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

offered some solutions but obviously could be other options

Try "demanded" some solutions, or maybe "attempted to bully your way into"; even if it just made you look kinda impotent. 

[babba]

Everyone write about the game, this game...ONi. Banging heads together leads to nothing, the thread will just end in clutter.

All shake hands and write what you want to have from the game and what the game issues are.

P.S. I`m pretty sure @Lbphero will love more user support for a "Gassy Moo Reproduction Thread" @KonfigSys

Game critic is important, lets hope Klei does the best with it.

I`m having a nice hot bath now

[KonfigSys]

15 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Try "demanded" some solutions, or maybe "attempted to bully your way into"; even if it just made you look kinda impotent. 

This clearly comes to another level - the scholars, are you coming from Dota? Go and do your homework first. Do not bother grown up people with your nonsense.

I read one post in the stream chat, a person complained that he went to Klei forum asking some help and got engaged with two fanatics (obviously not working for Klei) who "protected" Klei properties without given any thoughts. It looks like I know the nicknames by now.

[sakura_sk]

@KonfigSys I would disagree with you about everything you say just because your "constructive criticism" starts like that:

8 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

after reading all that, it is the first time I do not want the new update to go live. My perception about the game and developers started shifting from very positive to negative...

Any other issue you mentioned is subject to change (EA and all) but making a judgment before even playing something ...?

As for steam score, why would anyone take into account any score of an unfinished game (I will put my like/dislike when it is a finished product not before. So even my positive score is not counted by steam). Also, comparing a 4 month (less than 4 really...) old EA game's score to a ~2-3 years EA - 2 year old released game, I wouldn't expect anything more that 50% positive (and it is more than 70%?!  wow!). Yeah.. sure... trust "statistics" 

 

11 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

I read one post in the stream chat, a person complained that he went to Klei forum asking some help and got engaged with two fanatics (obviously not working for Klei) who "protected" Klei properties without given any thoughts. It looks like I know the nicknames by now.

Making judgments about a generic comment... Right.. ok. Back to the top

[pether]

1 hour ago, KonfigSys said:

It is good to have a negative comment on your product while it is being still under development - you have plenty of time to change it or not

100% agree on that

1 hour ago, KonfigSys said:

I indicated the problems (offered some solutions but obviously could be other options), it is up to Klei to decide to check what changes are to be made

Great, constructive feedback is always a valuable thing!

1 hour ago, KonfigSys said:

Pether, you do realize that when the product is finished it is already too late to be mad. It is good to be mad while EA as the developers may tweak the product to fit a broader player group; hence, sell more copies and get more money at the end. 

It seems it is the only thing that we disagree on. Sure, constructive negative feedback is important, but I wouldn't like to express it with aggresive methods. Conflict doesn't go well with creative work devs must do. Also, I wouldn't like to be seen as impatient, rude or immature and I don't think this would help to solve the issue. Don't get me wrong, I don't say we must lie to ourselves that everything is pink, sweet and great, but when we point out bad things I believe we should do it in a cultural manner.

1 hour ago, KonfigSys said:

Look at Cyberpunk 2077 story. They have at least two legal cases (one in US and one in Europe) for misleading marketing, broken promises, delivering unfinished product but it does not help majority of players who bought the game - too late.

TBH, KLEI promised us new space and radiation for the DLC. They could release now the game as finished and you couldn't say about broken promises. Ofc I wouldn't be satisfied atm, but they could say "FU all, money is money". They don't. They show us next bits of the game so we could feedback them. I believe this is a good approach.

Also, please keep in mind that Cyberpunk 2077 failed because mad feedback and aggresive comments, even death threats. Another good point why we should avoid those

[JoeW]

Just a reminder to keep posts constructive on-topic and without personal attacks. Thank you. 

[babba]

27 minutes ago, pether said:

...

TBH, KLEI promised us new space and radiation for the DLC. They could release now the game as finished and you couldn't say about broken promises.

A certain amount of players expected the DLC to be an "true" expansion of the base game. Whatever that means depends on every ones view and expectations.

In my opinion this is currently not the case, I can hope for the future that it will be a true expanding experience. The reasons why the expansion currently can for players not feel like an expansion of the base game have been brought up in the forum, in lots of user posts, and are hopefully further worked on by Klei.

KonfigSys has pointed several issues out...Its just that the discussion got heated between forum members.
My bath temperature is perfect now, so I`m really off now. I hope my input and user appeal can be taken to go constructively forward. So get the peace candles out everyone 

All stay constructive please, don`t get personal. Blubb blubb, bath time

9 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

after reading all that, it is the first time I do not want the new update to go live. My perception about the game and developers started shifting from very positive to negative...

They have not completed rocketry properly - the newly introduced ports do not function desirably and are not convenient at all to use. Rocket  module design mixture looks ugly or at least unfinished. Orbital cargo loader does not work.

The habitat is too small for a proper build (unless one uses a bug). The rocket length is a big issue as you cannot land an oil rocket on a newly discovered planets - what a crap - why the space is so limited. This renders big oil rockets useless unless you dig all way down to the bottom already small asteroids. 

They have not increased the size of the initial asteroid yet - so it can be easily done as I understand. The new moonlets are...

I have just landed and dug through the moo asteroid to came up complete upset. What is that? Just created to land once and forget about it? 

In order for the moonlet to be interesting it should contribute to sustainability - it was enough simply to add a chlorine geyser at least (even better a cold temperature chlorine vent) or geyser which generates moos as someone suggested. Something fresh and unique rather than we were in hurry and did not do it properly.

I support Babba - I hope they will not drastically change the vanilla game. Currently the vanilla game wins the battle. DLC though has some nice quality of life improvements suffers from small but annoying deficiencies. People were asking to remove meteors (I was not one of them) but now they come up with even worse threat (space radiation) which does not bring any benefits (contrary to regolith). 

About radiation thing - if you have something killing in the game - go right ahead with the option at the game start to chose from deadly (or very deadly if one have appetite for that) to curable.

One would expect something interesting from the radiation update such as a new research tree which may bring bigger rocket habitat, special designed for space buildings, interesting morphs for all creatures, etc. so many nice features. Players indicated that they could wait but get something interesting unique intriguing.

I do not understand the logic behind the r/a update.

Klei removed meteors and made rocketry easy to start compared to the vanilla game (so it was easy to start but progression with more advanced rockets does not bring many benefits). Now a player cannot go to the surface due to the cosmic rays and it threw back the rocketry?

Back to the vanilla game then.... and negative comments in the stream for the DLC.

 

 

[pether]

2 minutes ago, babba said:

I my opinion this is currently not the case, I can hope for the future that it will be a true expanding experience. There reasons why the expansion currently can not feel like an expansion of the base game have been brought up in the past and are hoepfully furtehr worked on by Klei.

OK, you are right

2 minutes ago, babba said:

KonfigSys has pointed several issues out...Its just that the discussion got heated between forum members.

I hope @KonfigSys doesn't read my posts as personal attacks. I really respect his oppinion and valid imput

[KonfigSys]

1 minute ago, sakura_sk said:

@KonfigSys I would disagree with you about everything you say just because your "constructed criticism" starts like that:

Any other issue you mentioned is subject to change (EA and all) but making a judgment before even playing something ...?

As for steam score, why would anyone take into account any score of an unfinished game (I will put my like/dislike when it is a finished product not before. So even my positive score is not counted by steam). Also, comparing a 4 month (less than 4 really...) old EA game's score to a ~2-3 years EA - 2 year old released game, I wouldn't expect anything more that 50% positive (and it is more than 70%?!  wow!). Yeah.. sure... trust "statistics" 

 

Making judgments about a generic comment... Right.. ok. Back to the top

Well, I read comments on the forum before I started r/a and learned that:

Dups are dying without any means to treat them. Ok it was corrected later on but what devs were thinking releasing such in the first place? There are internal testers and there is a simple common sense. They have already made a similar mistake in the past when dupes were dying of diseases, they scaled it down and now again. Why some people do not like to play with dead dupes and stop playing the game - this question should be discussed before repeating exactly the same mistake (or not mistake - depends on proportion of people who like one way or another).. 

Yes, they rely on experimental branch testers but they have some limits. If the game are too buggy, have some not well thought features the testers will switch to another game (this what is happening to some extend). 

What do you want to say? Do not trust what is written on the forum and check everything yourself? Then what the forum is good for? There are millions of games in the universe, I do not try all of them, I rely on other sources including the ratings/references/recommendations. 

The logic is simple - people provided some features on the new update, I did not like how it sounded - I pointed that some players including myself would not like such things (it looks like devs have already changed it meaning that I was not solo and MANY players did not like it so Klei was fast enough to correct it). I had enough in-game disappointment when I did not check forums but (for example) flew to Moo planet to be vastly disappointed that there is nothing there which can be a remotely interesting (at least it is my opinion). Klei through the years built some expectations, the expectations may not match reality. My duty is to say what I like or do not like (as well as any can do the same) to devs. It is up to devs to correct it or leave it as it is. I do not understand some forum fanatics jumping over and trying to protect Klei (not your case, for clarity). 

Opinions vary and everyone has rights to express his/her opinion. What did I write untrue? I stated my own feelings not implying it will be applicable for everyone. My tone was no where close to be rude (it was aggressive in a good way - some may associate aggressiveness with a bad thing but it has other meanings and one is to be assertive/getting things done). Yes, it was clear for me that I do not like to play a game where dupes will die without any reasonable means to save them. Even though Klei corrected it, my perception is still getting worse as they should not release such even for Beta tests.

The r/a was not the only point for me but it was the last straw. Rocket update was not done properly in my view, maps are too small, etc.

I still like the vanilla game and my expectation was that they could build on it very nicely but this is my opinion and you may not agree on that.

Stats are stats. You can trust them, you can hate them but they do exist. There are hundreds of recommendations and I do trust them. I like steam recommendations as I mentioned you cannot fabricate them (one per game bought). No matter how old is game - the point is most of this recommendations (or dis-recommendations) are coming from people who already played ONI (for years). One would expect already high score as the players have already been filtered - the ones who liked ONI and bought DLC. There is a high probability that the one who likes ONI will like DLC but this is not the case. I would see it as a troublesome signal but again it is up to Klei marketing team to decide take the numbers into account or not.

 

22 minutes ago, pether said:

100% agree on that

Great, constructive feedback is always a valuable thing!

It seems it is the only thing that we disagree on. Sure, constructive negative feedback is important, but I wouldn't like to express it with aggresive methods. Conflict doesn't go well with creative work devs must do. Also, I wouldn't like to be seen as impatient, rude or immature and I don't think this would help to solve the issue. Don't get me wrong, I don't say we must lie to ourselves that everything is pink, sweet and great, but when we point out bad things I believe we should do it in a cultural manner.

TBH, KLEI promised us new space and radiation for the DLC. They could release now the game as finished and you couldn't say about broken promises. Ofc I wouldn't be satisfied atm, but they could say "FU all, money is money". They don't. They show us next bits of the game so we could feedback them. I believe this is a good approach.

Also, please keep in mind that Cyberpunk 2077 failed because mad feedback and aggresive comments, even death threats. Another good point why we should avoid those

Cyberpunk has nothing close to ONI (one thing in common though the devs also created my favorite games. I did not buy Cyberpunk but was waiting for the release). It was just an example how things can get ugly fast and also about managing expectations. 

Klei raised the bar high. I still have full respect to them though I am disappointed with recent decisions. Ok, good thing we have only one disagreement. Let's go over it. I wrote a reply to Sakura - aggressive is not necessary bad. If you like assertive better, we can use this one. Now let see the wording in the message. It is nowhere close to be rude. I am just venting out my frustration about the recent changes or what has not been done - the things that many players were asking (not only me). Of course, there are many devs in the world who do not care about player feedback "take it or leave it" approach may also be a way for devs. However, I would not waste my time to write anything to such developers. Klei is a different story. I hope that they pay attention to this extended "fight" and may do some changes and finally all of us will win: players who defend Klei, players who desperately want some changes, Klei itself for making the game better. I do not take it personally as even negative feedback serves well in the story - create more force for Klei to look seriously at the issues (and here is my assertive way to get things done). Unless someone goes personal and then this goes outside of this little game and I can play offside also.

[Sasza22]

I feel that the bad impression people get from the dlc comes from the amount of changes the devs planned to make and that they decided to push as much content as possible in a small timeframe. That meant a lot of the stuff was untested, buggy, imbalanced and sometimes not thought through. From a development standpoint it makes sense though. The more content is available early the more testing time and feedback it gets and the more time they got to fix it and polish it out.

But from a players perspective we get a semi downgraded version of the game with several features removed to make room for changes and their reworked versions and new seystems that are buggy and not fully funcional. I understand it can cause frustration and leads to worse reviews especially from people that sunk many hours in the base game that`s in a much better state.

The base game is giving us high expectations beacause it`s really high quality but it wasn`t that good in it`s early stages. The dlc has regressed to earlier stages of development and it feels familiar to beta veterans who dealt with the early bugs. People used to the final product meanwhile see it as a worse version (which it currently is by design, until it gets better) and want it to be polished like the base game. It will surely reach this state but for now it`s in deep development and almost all of the new features need work.

[sakura_sk]

14 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

What do you want to say? Do not trust what is written on the forum and check everything yourself? Then what the forum is good for? There are millions of games in the universe, I do not try all of them, I rely on other sources including the ratings/references/recommendations. 

I'm saying I expect someone to first try it and then have an opinion about how something works/doesn't work.

Sorry... I feel like when someone tells me he/she doesn't like a certain food or food combination without ever tasting it. I have an urge to shove a spoonful of that food down his/her throat and just calmly ask again "Do you still not like it?"  (I usually would get a "Well... it's not bad..."  )

 

You do realize expectations and promises are totally different, right? What I would expect from Klei is a complete game. Which is still in the expected territory (still Early Access. I know we mentioned that many times already..  ). I had stopped playing testing branch of EA ONI base game for several updates after a certain "floating vacuum" incident... but now I can only see it as "funny how that happened" and regret not having more screenshots of that . I would also recommend to anyone that (I feel) makes rush judgments to be a little tiny bit more patient (until development is finished or at least the 3-week commitment).

I know it's your opinion of the opinion of another person about how a thing worked horribly for 1 day and then it was fixed, but that is my opinion of your opinion of that. 

Stats are stats and exist but that doesn't mean they express absolute truths at any point.

[babba]

45 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

...

But from a players perspective we get a semi downgraded version of the game with several features removed to make room for changes and their reworked versions and new systems that are buggy and not fully functional. I understand it can cause frustration and leads to worse reviews especially from people that sunk many hours in the base game that`s in a much better state.

Oh my bath was so good, I`m mega chilled

IMHO well said Sasza, I find its a semi downgraded version of the base game. The first hour I played the dlc I knew that my +3500 cycle base game save is for the bin. Basically Klei told me "Here is the dlc, have a break from ONi for 1 year". I have purchased +1000 game titles in my life, probably played 2000 or so...But its the first time that a game, which I love to play, gets a dlc which crumbles the foundation of base game content.

We all sense why Klei did it and we all hope the best, a lot of people sense where and how it will end, but I do understand those which are frustrated and sometimes want to play their beloved base game...but also want the good things from the dlc mixed in to the base game.

Taking the time pill, booting some other game due to too many dlc crashes...Dreaming of the reactor and crash free ONi times. Awaiting the completion of "base game in to dlc transition".

What was the thread title ? Too much radiation sickness...

[minespatch]

12 minutes ago, babba said:

We all sense why Klei did it and we all hope the best, a lot of people sense where and how it will end, but I do understand those which are frustrated and sometimes want to play their beloved base game...but also want the good things from the dlc mixed in to the base game.

[KonfigSys]

6 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

I'm saying I expect someone to first try it and then have an opinion about how something works/doesn't work.

Sorry... I feel like when someone tells me he/she doesn't like a certain food or food combination without ever tasting it. I have an urge to shove a spoonful of that food down his/her throat and just calmly ask again "Do you still not like it?"  (I usually would get a "Well... it's not bad..."  )

 

You do realize expectations and promises are totally different, right? What I would expect from Klei is a complete game. Which is still in the expected territory (still Early Access. I know we mentioned that many times already..  ). I had stopped playing testing branch of EA ONI base game for several updates after a certain "floating vacuum" incident... but now I can only see it as "funny how that happened" and regret not having more screenshots of that . I would also recommend to anyone that (I feel) makes rush judgments to be a little tiny bit more patient (until development is finished or at least the 3-week commitment).

I know it's your opinion of the opinion of another person about how a thing worked horribly for 1 day and then it was fixed, but that is my opinion of your opinion of that. 

Stats are stats and exist but that doesn't mean they express absolute truths at any point.

stats are only reflection of reality. In fact all we see and feel is just a reflection but not a reality. But the numbers provide a good reference point to base your judgement upon. Even this situation shows that we see the same numbers but everyone see a different subjective story behind the numbers. I used the numbers to indicate that not all players are happy about the DLC and I am not alone in my view. 

About your food example, you do realize that people may not judge based on taste but how it looks like. One can say the taste is only matter. Some pay attention to smell and how it looks like. 

In this particular example, imagine that you offered me a dish with some species I have an allergy for. When you told me about this I said "I do not like it, I do not even need to taste it" (the food taste can be good but no matter I will feel bad about it vomiting in my bed if I eat it). I have an allergy for dupes dying and when the player cannot cure it. It does not matter the sauce it will be under. I know the base dish/game well enough to avoid "dead dup from radiation" sauce. 

People rely on some knowledge without always testing it - in fact it is the most of the time. Do not touch naked wires - have any one tried to check what will happen if you touch, do no use narcotics - some tested and plenty of other examples.

Of course, promises and expectations are very different but they are walking close by. Expectations are based on promises (real or imagined), on past experience (this where Klei delivered well above) or other references. I do not recall Klei to promise delivering anything they did not do; however, they built expectations through their outstanding performance. There is a curse of overachievers and that what really moves something outside the commonly accepted boundaries.

[sakura_sk]

5 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

In this particular example, imagine that you offered me a dish with some species I have an allergy for. When you told me about this I said "I do not like it, I do not even need to taste it" (the food taste can be good but no matter I will feel bad about it vomiting in my bed if I eat it). I have an allergy for dupes dying and when the player cannot cure it. It does not matter the sauce it will be under. I know the base dish/game well enough to avoid "dead dup from radiation" sauce.

If you are allergic to something it's not just a "I don't like it" (I still think you wouldn't possibly know but anyways...) but "I can't possibly eat that". Your "allergy" in the game's case though can be "cured" if you let the "allergic period" pass :P (meaning EA)

9 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

People rely on some knowledge without always testing it - in fact it is the most of the time. Do not touch naked wires - have any one tried to check what will happen if you touch

I like to approach ONI (at last..) like a kid would play with anything. In reality it would be horrible... ("Mmmm... What that wire would taste like..?") but in game it's "Ooops...I shouldn't have let dupes near that active cool steam vent. Now they drop like flies... Mmmm ... load last save?" 

[babba]

I couldn`t resist Maybe we should rename the thread to "The great dlc rant and entertainment thread".

BTW has anybody managed to get the big fat reactor running in a rocket, survival mode, yet ? Will it end in radiation sickness

11 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

I like to approach ONI (at last..) like a kid would play with anything. In reality it would be horrible... ("Mmmm... What that wire would taste like..?") but in game it's "Ooops...I shouldn't have let dupes near that active cool steam vent. Now they drop like flies... Mmmm ... load last save?" 

I used to have a giant static caravan at a beach in a gated park, which I "refurbished in great detail". Learning by doing

Which thread will "win"

[KonfigSys]

18 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

If you are allergic to something it's not just a "I don't like it" (I still think you wouldn't possibly know but anyways...) but "I can't possibly eat that". Your "allergy" in the game's case though can be "cured" if you let the "allergic period" pass :P (meaning EA)

I like to approach ONI (at last..) like a kid would play with anything. In reality it would be horrible... ("Mmmm... What that wire would taste like..?") but in game it's "Ooops...I shouldn't have let dupes near that active cool steam vent. Now they drop like flies... Mmmm ... load last save?" 

Trust me; I have a strong allergy for some food and I know what I should not take though I love some of this food (some I have never tried but I know it will be allergic based on its ingredients). So once in a while I try a spoon for 5 minutes enjoyment to spend two hours in a bed later. And yes, sometimes it is easier to say you do not like it then go into lengthy explanation why you cannot eat it.

There is no right way to play ONI but only the way you have the most fun in. I play coop in DST with my friend and the game play style is very different. Splitting the tasks allowed both of us to enjoy the game in his own way. 

[babba]

5 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

...I play coop in DST with my friend and the game play style is very different. Splitting the tasks allowed both of us to enjoy the game in his own way. 

Would you like to play ONi multiplayer, if that were possible

[KonfigSys]

6 minutes ago, babba said:

Would you like to play ONi multiplayer, if that were possible

You mentioned that but I do not think Klei has plans for multiplayer/coop in ONI. In the DLC setup it may be practicable as some players may start at different asteroids and then visit each other when rockets are built or even trade/exchange resources. So there is a similar game we played in coop (Satisfactory). It is also in the EA. 

Though Klei did not want to do DS as a multiplayer game and then they released DST. We had great fun with my friend especially when were going for boss fight. We discussed tactics first and when we started everything went differently/unplanned. A lot of screaming and cursing but at the end we were laughing no matter if the boss was dead or all our dupes were dead.

[babba]

15 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

You mentioned that but I do not think Klei has plans for multiplayer/coop in ONI. In the DLC setup it may be practicable as some players may start at different asteroids and then visit each other when rockets are built or even trade/exchange resources. So there is a similar game we played in coop (Satisfactory). It is also in the EA. 

Though Klei did not want to do DS as a multiplayer game and then they released DST. We had great fun with my friend especially when were going for boss fight. We discussed tactics first and when we started everything went differently/unplanned. A lot of screaming and cursing but at the end we were laughing no matter if the boss was dead or all our dupes were dead.

The boss fight in ONi could be the ultimate asteroid: Imagine 22 un-dug geysers, each spawning a difference substance at a different temperature, within 50x50 tiles + permanent asteroid regolith rain + max radiation and max all germ types + special music + mythical object to discover and the world base temperature regularly alternating between -100 and +1000C. The ultimate taming, survival and resource collection endgame attempt !

Building a space station, as base camp, to enter this endgame asteroid world can help the players undertaking.

[KonfigSys]

The boss fight in ONi could be the ultimate asteroid: Imagine 22 un-dug geysers, each spawning a difference substance at a different temperature, within 50x50 tiles + permanent asteroid regolith rain + max radiation and max all germ types + special music + mythical object to discover and the world base temperature regularly alternating between -100 and +1000C.

 

It sounds like a great challenge to overcome. And finally when you kill the boss, you learn that the boss was the result of mutation of the young scientist whom the game refers to...