aren't damage multipliers too strong?

[viberr]

for anyone whos wondering im not requesting any nerfs at all.i like the game just the way it is 

im jus saying that i think the volt goat choid froid ,wolfgang plus abigail combo is just really strong and personally i won't be using it except for toadstool

the main answers this thread got is:that the combo is fun and fun is what matters and i can't disagree with that

i hope you all have a wonderful day or night wherever you are in the world(you know those times where you try to go to sleep but your body refuses?yeah i hate those times)

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, stranger again said:

for anyone whos wondering im not requesting any nerfs at all.i like the game just the way it is 

im jus saying that i think the volt goat choid froid ,wolfgang plus abigail combo is just really strong and personally i won't be using it except for toadstool

the main answers this thread got is:that the combo is fun and fun is what matters and i can't disagree with that

i hope you all have a wonderful day or night wherever you are in the world(you know those times where you try to go to sleep but your body refuses?yeah i hate those times)

Doesn’t matter rather you do or don’t want Nerfs, I’m pretty sure there’s a Klei Dev official post around here somewhere (which I’m too lazy to look for) that states how OP Wolfgang can get with Warlys food and that they plan to address that when they get around to Wolfgang’s rework- but for NOW to enjoy the incredibly OP’ness that it brings until then.

If that’s not a hint that Wolfgang is in the crosshairs of some proper balancing/nerfing- I don’t know what is.. and As someone who plays and enjoys Wickerbottom: It would only be fair to knock him down a peg or two in some way after Wicker got her Book Nerfs.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Doesn’t matter rather you do or don’t want Nerfs, I’m pretty sure there’s a Klei Dev official post around here somewhere (which I’m too lazy to look for) that states how OP Wolfgang can get with Warlys food and that they plan to address that when they get around to Wolfgang’s rework- but for NOW to enjoy the incredibly OP’ness that it brings until then.

If that’s not a hint that Wolfgang is in the crosshairs of some proper balancing/nerfing- I don’t know what is.. and As someone who plays and enjoys Wickerbottom: It would only be fair to knock him down a peg or two in some way after Wicker got her Book Nerfs.

I didnt read that post but watched a portion of the old klei stream were a dev said that about wolf

It was like "yes, we know wolfg can do x6 damage but anyways he will get reworked". I dont know if they changed their minds or not 

[SilverBisexual]

I don't care I just like having fun

[Dragonboooorn]

You guys are strange. Wolfgang always was, are and will be best damage dealer. Why you wanna nerf his damage? Its like nerfing Woodie's ability to chop trees fast. This just dont make any sense, cuz he is lumberjack. Wolfgang IS supposed to be best damage dealer, by his lore and skins he is former trooper, he sure know how to fight. Its strange that people is okay with Wendy though - Klei remove her only and biggest downside, low damage. And why? For what purpose? Wendy has never meant to be best damage dealer ( and she is better than almost all other characters in DST now ). So why you ever want to kill Wolfgang as character? 

[Psychomaniac]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

day ~9 hounds come

Then i can one-shot them with my x10 dmg ham bat, lovely...

[Mike23Ua]

41 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

You guys are strange. Wolfgang always was, are and will be best damage dealer. Why you wanna nerf his damage? Its like nerfing Woodie's ability to chop trees fast. This just dont make any sense, cuz he is lumberjack. Wolfgang IS supposed to be best damage dealer, by his lore and skins he is former trooper, he sure know how to fight. Its strange that people is okay with Wendy though - Klei remove her only and biggest downside, low damage. And why? For what purpose? Wendy has never meant to be best damage dealer ( and she is better than almost all other characters in DST now ). So why you ever want to kill Wolfgang as character? 

I don’t think anyone wants him “by Himself” to deal less damage, they just want Superman to gain some forms of Kryptonite. 
 

Examples would be: Needing to perform mighty actions in addition to eating to stay in Mighty mode, having an actual downside besides becoming puny on less full stomach, Maybe NOT getting damage buff (or getting less of a buff) from other characters who provide buffs..

(you said it yourself Wolfgang is already strong) these “team buffs” should be reserved for making weaker characters a tiny bit Stronger.

From a lore perspective: “Wolfgang Mighty! There’s no one that’s Mightier” (Aka meaning he would want to showcase his OWN Might rather than rely upon the crazy buffs other characters push him into becoming much much Mightier with.) 

[Gi-Go]

Character perks aimed at multiplayer are for casual players who are too bad at the game to fight bosses like normal people. 

I'm not sure what you are complaining about. If warly + wolf are too easy and boring for you - then simply don't use that combo. 

Always remember that dst has players of all kinds of skill levels, and what seems natural to you might be a huge challenge for beginners. 

I'm always down for whatever new perk klei gonna add to aid new players in boss fights. Better than them using mods to ease the game. 

[Toros]

Wolfgang having 2x damage isn’t the issue when Warly can give anyone 3x damage against wet targets, 1.8x damage against dry ones.

This is literally a Warly issue, not a Wolfgang one.  Anyone + Warly or Warly solo can either almost match or exceed Wolfgang’s damage, which along with a speed boost and higher than usual health is Wolfgang’s entire upside.

[SinancoTheBest]

Is it a very strong team combo? Absolutely! I agree with you that Warly + Wendy + Wolfgang synergizes much better than a mediocre synergy like Wickerbottom + WX78 + Wolfgang. Do I think that its game-breaking? Absolutely not! People love bringing up that 600 number or similar high numbers when talking about how overpowered things are but in my view that's an awfully specific situation that's barely effective in a tiny portion of the game. Fighting is just one part of the game (Building, Foraging and Tending are equally big, if not bigger parts of the game) and bossfighting is even a smaller subsection of it.

Volt goat Chaud Froid is a rare delicacy using an item rarity of which is comparable to Walrus Tusks and competes with Morning Stars and Weather Pains in using it. If people are dedicated enough to produce it on top of farming for spices and bring a buff Abigail to make a very fixed scenario like that, then I say all to the power to them. All those boosts are temporary enough not to effect the majority of gameplay and I don't see how much more beneficial it is if people are maintaining that power to fight spiders, frogs, hounds and gobblers alike. Acknowledging that immense damage potential, I'd still prefer a Wigfrid in my party to a Wolfgang anyday as she provides combat gear and songs, whereas Wolfgang just excels in dealing damage without any significant downsides.

Still, when an enthusiastic Wolfgang joins, I think it's simply fun to capitalize on the power combos like you described. It's a multiplayer game where each player offers something constructive to the party after all. I don't think it warrants any sort of nerf or extended attention and it just needs to be an issue to consider when the developers are working on reworking Wolfgang.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Toros said:

Wolfgang having 2x damage isn’t the issue when Warly can give anyone 3x damage against wet targets, 1.8x damage against dry ones.

This is literally a Warly issue, not a Wolfgang one.  Anyone + Warly or Warly solo can either almost match or exceed Wolfgang’s damage, which along with a speed boost and higher than usual health is Wolfgang’s entire upside.

If the buff were weak nobody would waste a horn for it

The problem is people crying about how other people play the game in an "easier way" and other people justifing that isnt so strong because potato

As example:

6 hours ago, Psychomaniac said:

Then i can one-shot them with my x10 dmg ham bat, lovely...

Saying that combat isnt important to justifify his "cheaty" way of playing the game (like someone cares... or atleast nobody should care how he has fun) instead of saying "is important but not for me"

Personally i dont use portal for killing bosses and i will never use wolfgang if im playing with more people but that is my personal preference but i neither complain about having portal and i dont say it is weak to justify using it because it will be a lie, the portal is so strong but neccessary for many reasons and the combo is op but kinda neccessary because there is people that want rush things after XXXX hours played or other players that doesnt want to make the effort of playing with just his character perks and that is fine because not all the people are the same. Meanwhile this kind of thigs doesnt affect me i cant complain

[viberr]

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

If the buff were weak nobody would waste a horn for it

The problem is people crying about how other people play the game in an "easier way" and other people justifing that isnt so strong because potato

As example:

Saying that combat isnt important to justifify his "cheaty" way of playing the game (like someone cares... or atleast nobody should care how he has fun) instead of saying "is important but not for me"

Personally i dont use portal for killing bosses and i will mever use wolfgang if im playing with more people but that is my personal prefernce but i neither complain about having portal and i dont say it is weak to justify using it because it will be a lie, the portal is so strong but neccessary for many reasons and the combo is op but kinda neccessary because there is people thst want rush things after XXXX hours played or other players that doesnt want to make the effort of playing with just his character persk and that is fine because not all the people are the same. Meanwhile this kind of thigs doesnt affect me i cant complain

interesting stuff right there 

(hey by the way arubaro this isn't me trying to be mean or anything but maybe you should get a correcter that corrects your spelling if its wrong? i use one myself because i suck at the english language)

[lionking102]

9 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

Ofc Warly's Spicy Volt Goat Chaud-Froid is overpowered, but Klei just doesn't care about balancing and nerfing it will make Warly useless for most players and disappoint Klei's favourite master bragger streamer.

I'm really sad to go to the forums in 2021 the first time and see such aggression... Just wanted to say. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, stranger again said:

interesting stuff right there 

(hey by the way arubaro this isn't me trying to be mean or anything but maybe you should get a correcter that corrects your spelling if its wrong? i use one myself because i suck at the english language)

Dont worry, im aware and you told me as polite as you always are. I shouldnt write fast and less if im using a phone and after that reread what i read

Sometimes i even think something but im writing other thing and all get mixed in a non sense

Also i dont have problem if someone corrects me, i want to learn. That is one of the reasons of using klei forums

[bruhmoment23]

The main problem i see with damage multipliers is that they're bound to certain characters and food items. If there was a change those things would either become worthless, somewhat balanced or even more absurd. You can pretty much stockpile spiced Voltgoat Jelly as any character anywhere, all it takes is a farm and minor preperations. There was a lot of discussion in the past about how Warly would become forgotten if it wasn't for that dish. Though i suppose it's better having those damage boosts being character bound rather than an in-game item that increases it.

[Well-met]

I wouldn't worry about this too much until wolfgang gets his revision.

[ShadowDuelist]

It takes a long time of grinding to get a consistent amount of spicy volt goat jelly, so it’s not like Warly is just better than Wolfgang. He could be, technically speaking, yes, but only if he worked 20x times harder and only for a few minutes boost. And that is only better than Wolfgang on a rainy day.

To my point of view that is balanced enough, I mean it just lets you scale your power according to your dedication.

Wolfgang on the other hand gets 2x damage by just collecting enough carrots and berries on day 1....
Still I wouldn’t like him nerfed, If making fights faster is your thing in exchange for an essentially simple (and dull in my opinion) character then that’s fine.
 

As a matter of fact if you see the world stats on characters usage, Wolfgang and Warly always score really low in popularity, despite both being free. So it’s not like they are even breaking the game or ruining the fun for others. 
 

TL;DR: spicy volt goat jelly is way too expensive to be any less powerful than what it is now. It’s also tied to the character with possibly the strongest cons there are in the game.
 On the other hand Wolfgang is and always was unbalanced in terms of raw power, compensated by the fact that outside of fighting he offers nothing fun or special to do. Both are unpopular characters for a reason. Nerfs are NOT the solution to these things at all.

[Yuma Arcl]

Remember, it's "PvE". If Wolf is dealing 6x damage with many preparations, who cares? He's just killing things faster, like Winona with her cheap catapults, Wicker with her tentacles or Wurt with her Merms (With 40 dragonpies you can use 40 merms to kill DF, BQ AND maybe another boss - in a row).

Above average damage is not an issue to be addressed.

If he was dealing damage and healing for 10% of it, or dealing damage and his ability was "each 300 damage you deal, you become invulnerable for 1 sec" or "stun the enemy for 1 sec", ok we'd have a problem. 

But no.

[ShadowDuelist]

33 minutes ago, Yuma Arcl said:

Wurt with her Merms (With 40 dragonpies you can use 40 merms to kill DF, BQ AND maybe another boss - in a row).

Not even 40, I’ve done that with just 20, and not even with dragonpies which getting 20 is a lot of work, just 6 ripe stone fruits per merm is enough.

Wurt’s DPS scales up to a limitless level the more merms and vegetables you amass. And it’s a lot of fun really to see the swarm of merms destroying enemies or forests. And yet she is one of the least popular characters.

It does take a lot of work to get to that point though. But that’s the objective of the game: Work hard, over prepare, then profit. That is why Warly’s Volt jelly isn’t wrong either.

[thegreatJash]

14 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

Ofc Warly's Spicy Volt Goat Chaud-Froid is overpowered, but Klei just doesn't care about balancing and nerfing it will make Warly useless for most players and disappoint Klei's favourite master bragger streamer.

Which streamer is he talking about? Glermz or Jazzy? Because both are great.

[JosePapp]

Imo the damage problem is way too relative to be balanced around. You could have a team of 4 pick n switcher spicy Wolfgangs or you could have a varied and uncoordinated team of 4 and have wildly different results.

While I do agree that it is high damage, I'd say that the people who deal said damage earned it by preparing for it.

When I was somewhat new, I tried to 2 player bee queen with a buddy of mine, and call us suckers if you will but she was such a damage sponge that even with health adjusting it was quite difficult.

To sum, if you wanna "balance" damage, you'd need the option of dynamic health adjusting or some jazz to say X or Y is OP. Because while bosses like deerclops only have 6k, bosses like regular toadstool have an absurd 52k. At least the jelly and the catapults open up the option of defeating those bosses in under 30 minutes without lowering their health.

[Simplyee]

17 hours ago, stranger again said:

and who is that?jazzygames?

i know this is not important but you seem to not like klei right? just from what you say it doesn't seem that you like klei all too much (which i personally don't get klei are really amazing)

well klei did say they were gonna add a item that causes rain.i know that you can achieve tons of damage with bunnymen and catapults but i would say that the combo of wolfgang,warly and wendy is stronger than both bunnymen and catapults because bunnymen hutches are kinda hard to get in large quantities nowadays and catapults are quite expensive in large quantities (doesn't mean that bunnymen and catapults aren't strong because they are)

It takes roughy the same set up time for both. 

 

One needs three players ( or switching to get the food ready ), the rabbits and catapult can be done with one character(anyone for rabbit , only Winona for catapult ). 

 

It's not easy to farm jelly and it's not easy to use warly. So its the same. They want ppl to play the game how they want to play. 

 

Long story short, if you think anything is op, simply use Wes 

[viberr]

6 minutes ago, Simplyee said:

simply use Wes 

10000 IQ words right here

[Simplyee]

3 minutes ago, stranger again said:

10000 IQ words right here

The irony here is ppl are expecting Tim Burton demon souls with don't starve. And that's what wes is for. Wolfgang was fine as is till warly so that's the issue. 

 

But wait if u touch warly, you'll have another unit no one will touch till it get reworked again. Lol 

 

Look at wigfrid. She got buffed and ppl complained all they used her for was tankiness and waste of resources. Now the game has almost infinite resources and she's a bard+ her old gimmic. 

 

If you don't like something, don't use it. | Or use Wes |

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Simplyee said:

Long story short, if you think anything is op, simply use Wes 

Wes is broken: He worked absolutely fantastic in DS Single Player, BECAUSE DS was Single Player: But you put this Character into a MULTIPLAYER game and suddenly it becomes a problem- I would be absolutely Fine with Wes if The challenges of playing as Wes ONLY impacted the Player who is playing Wes- but that clearly isn’t the case at all here now is it? The challenges of playing as Wes Also impact everyone else who did NOT pick to play as Wes and probably did NOT want the added challenges as if they themselves had picked to play as Wes too. For example: Wigfrid has to craft more spears and more helmets for Wes because they don’t do as much damage as they should or last as long as they should.

I play SMITE (I’ve mentioned this before but..) There is a REASON why Smite has over 100 playable characters that constantly go through balance changes, character Nerfs/Character Buffs. And while DST is NOT an MOBA like Smite- it is STILL a Multiplayer TEAM based game with almost 20+ characters to choose from (I’m also counting the currently not in the game Single player characters to reach 20)

And as someone who plays Smite: I would like to see Wes get the Aphrodite treatment- Aka he is strong and powerful and provides a team with buffs and aurora’s when near to multiple (3-4) team mates but Weak & squishy when off by himself doing his own thing (losses buffs becomes useless challenging Wes again except this time- his challenges only impact HIMSELF and not everyone else in the Server) in Smite- the general concept of Aphrodite is to get her AWAY from her Teammates so she’s alone and losses her Buffs and kill her FIRST.

I would like to see something Similar happen to Wes- and I would also like to see him gain fun new abilities through the powers of whatever in the heck “practices Balloon-o-Mancy” is.

And as far as Wolfgang goes: If he gains some new found abilities with his rework, such as picking up and moving heavy things with no movement speed penalty or being able to pick up and throw teammates, then I also expect him to get some changes that balances him so he isn’t just this food eating wrecking machine with 2-6x damage.

But all of that is of course just my opinion- and HAPPY NEW YEAR 2021!!!!