Not digging alpha

[misotoma]

I know we don't need negativity in the forums but I have been reading a few comments on youtube channels that honestly I seem to agree with.

To keep it short I hope that the whole game in the end does not change entirely from one version to the next.. What I mean is if it is at all possible please keep the classic mode of the game separate from the DLC. If people choose to keep the game the way it is right now there should be an option to do so. Or if they want to switch to the new format just switch to DLC. No meteors in space biome.. multiple map builds.. no shove voles.. even the new rocket system.. all in my opinion are bad designs. Having to not deal with oxygen in the cockpit or food or w/e was a great format. Just designate a pilot, set it and forget it.

Besides that the new buildings seem great but apart from that everything else does not seem to suit well with other players. I'm sure the majority of players don't feel the same way but if there is any design change you guys don't like let it be known or if what I'm offering as a suggestion is even viable.

[psusi]

On 11/30/2020 at 7:52 AM, misotoma said:

What I mean is if it is at all possible please keep the classic mode of the game separate from the DLC If people choose to keep the game the way it is right now there should be an option to do so

That's the whole idea... if you don't buy the DLC then you don't get it.

On 11/30/2020 at 7:52 AM, misotoma said:

No meteors in space biome

I certainly hope they only have them disabled to make testing easier.

On 11/30/2020 at 7:52 AM, misotoma said:

multiple map builds

You never wanted to colonize other worlds?  That seems fun to me.  And challenging to keep track of!  Though I'm not sure about it being early game content.

On 11/30/2020 at 7:52 AM, misotoma said:

even the new rocket system.. all in my opinion are bad designs. Having to not deal with oxygen in the cockpit or food or w/e was a great format. Just designate a pilot, set it and forget it.

The current system has always felt kind of dumb and immersion breaking to me.   The dupes just vanish into suspended animation while the timer clocks down on the building, rather than them actually traveling anywhere.  I'm not sure I like the idea of building a mini base inside the rocket, but certainly dupes shouldn't be in suspended animation while in flight.

 

[1x4x9]

I can't really say I am a fan of the DLC either.  The smaller starting biome, and the fact that you really have only plug slugs to depend on for power is limiting for me.  Personal minor gripes, but hopefully this will grow and become better in time.

[nakomaru]

DLC is definitely separate. Even if you buy it, you can disable it in steam to play classic. I don't think the maps will ever be compatible with each other - too many entirely different buildings and systems.

No meteors - I expect this to stay for most starting asteroids. They want space to be more accessible, since you don't even have mid game resources on your starting place. Later places and harder starts will probably have meteors.

Only certain resources (plug slugs, no meteors, fuel variety) on starting maps - there will still be different starts in the DLC just like classic. The alpha only has one right now. I'm sure you will be able to increase your starting map size in yaml too, despite how bad it will be for performance.

Personally, I can tell they put a lot of thought into the new tech/resource progression. You can't skip a lot of tech by e.g. early taming a metal volcano or mass planting with pips right away, at least in the currently available route.

[Gurgel]

3 hours ago, 1x4x9 said:

I can't really say I am a fan of the DLC either.  The smaller starting biome, and the fact that you really have only plug slugs to depend on for power is limiting for me.  Personal minor gripes, but hopefully this will grow and become better in time.

The slugs are only for the new starting biome (swamp). I expect we will get a full range of different starting options when this goes into early access. 

[goboking]

On 11/30/2020 at 6:52 AM, misotoma said:

I know we don't need negativity in the forums

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, and I'd be genuinely surprised if the developers didn't value honest feedback.

[suicide commando]

I agree with Goboking, there's nothing wrong with 'not liking how the DLC is looking'. Everyone has different tastes and if we all just agreed with one another all the time, things would be horribly boring, as long as people respect one another and each other's opinion.

While I do not agree with your opinion, I can certainly understand where you're coming from. I for one love the multi-colony thing, and I'm sure that the current meteor status and initial biome and such are all part of the current alpha testing progress. We will probably get other biomes / starting asteroids to play with later. 

I do hope they will put asteroids on other further away asteroids or some such, as yes, the current state of how easy it is to get massive power going from solar is too easy.

As for the rockets, the extra challenge of having a very confined space to get essential systems up and running in them makes for a fun mechanic, although I do hope at some point they will allow piped input/output interaction with the cockpit, as well as something for the power generation.
 

[mightybaz]

I'm finding that the DLC as it exists right now is interesting, but not fun. I feel the starting colony is too small and crowded with buildings, as well as limited in resources, biomes, etc, to really spread out and build, which I enjoy doing. I am hoping that this is to make testing quicker and easier, and whatever is finally released builds upon the existing game - adding the new rockets and coloniseable asteroids with new biomes to the current starting asteroids.  Although I'd be very happy if they also added some new starting asteroids with some of the new biomes.

 

I guess we shall have to wait and see.

[gnatsum]

I don't mind the new DLC content. Some of the mechanics are fun, however I miss not having multiple geysers to work with and integrate into a larger main base.   It would be nice if we could use the new DLC content without giving up so much on the initial map. 

[hthought]

I think this is fair criticism even though I love the DLC. It's just a different style of play and it would be great to be able to select how you want to play.

I'd also love a DLC that actually has even more geysers and new resource types. That's my favorite part of the game, taming surroundings and gathering resources to advance in tech  

[JahwsUF]

I imagine we'll have new, additional worldgen settings that will allow some configurability.  It'd make too much sense not to do at least that much.

I could imagine a "DLC-lite" mode that just adds new asteroid types as potential destinations in the base game's starmap.  Heck, imagine a hybrid mode, where there are "POI" destinations that give old-style yields... kind of like a "space geyser", while other destinations are actual maps.  There's a lot of potential for alternate game modes.

[Sasza22]

I`m pretty sure the surfaces of the asteroids aren`t final. The starting one has background extending above the top biome. For me it`s clear there will be another biome there, likely the old space biome with shove voles and stuff. Rocket tech might be a tad bit too early. I saw people get confused by the sugar engine thinking it`s a power generator, maybe it shouldn`t unlock before you can build landing pads (unless they plan to put a pre build one you can discover). Early rockets wouldn`t be possible with the old meteor system but it doesn`t meant there can`t be any dangers in space. Maybe stuff like solar flares or radioactivity will be introduced.

Overall there is a lot of potential but not a lot of balance yet. This is why feedback is needed. Negative as well. The unenjoyable things we complain about will likely be changed then.

[2tallyGr8]

13 hours ago, JahwsUF said:

I could imagine a "DLC-lite" mode that just adds new asteroid types as potential destinations in the base game's starmap.  Heck, imagine a hybrid mode, where there are "POI" destinations that give old-style yields... kind of like a "space geyser", while other destinations are actual maps.  There's a lot of potential for alternate game modes.

Yes, that sounds good, but you might have to drop something, like a mining robot, to retrieve things from those planets.

[psusi]

9 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Early rockets wouldn`t be possible with the old meteor system

It might not be easy, but is certainly possible.  My first foray into space I started off without any steel and just made do for a while repairing normal tiles.  Maybe if the frequency of showers were toned down a bit it wouldn't be too annoying to launch your first few rockets.  Especially since rockets ( and presumably the new rocket launch platform ) don't take damage from meteors.

[RonEmpire]

I'm pretty sure  if you "uncheck  DLC" when you play.   The classic normal game play is loaded instead.
 

[Smife]

Honestly "no meteors" is one of my favourite changes. At least you have breathing room not digging through endless regolith sand castles that add substantial lag. Though I wouldn't mind an occasional meteor that brings guaranteed useful resources and some regolith.

[Tsabo]

23 hours ago, goboking said:

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, and I'd be genuinely surprised if the developers didn't value honest feedback.

Really? Many (most?) people bitterly resent criticism, constructive or otherwise, and developers are (so I heard) still people...

It's not a good attribute for a person to have, but it has never been the case that all people were all good attributes.

On 12/2/2020 at 3:31 AM, psusi said:

You never wanted to colonize other worlds?  That seems fun to me.  And challenging to keep track of!  Though I'm not sure about it being early game content.

In every single videogame I've ever played, I really dislike it when I have to manage multiple maps, so... true, I did never want to colonize other worlds. Having them as abstracted piles of resources to plunder with my cargo bay is much more soothing to my psychological playstyle.

... all that being said, I do love radioactive waste, so on balance I think I'll still play with DLC on.

[JahwsUF]

7 hours ago, Tsabo said:

In every single videogame I've ever played, I really dislike it when I have to manage multiple maps, so... true, I did never want to colonize other worlds. Having them as abstracted piles of resources to plunder with my cargo bay is much more soothing to my psychological playstyle.

You know, for a lot of games, I'd totally agree with you.  The nice thing about ONI is that it gives you the tools to automate near-everything and reach points of sustainability.  Before that, you can reach points where very minimal oversight is required.  So... after a point, we should reach points where we don't actually have to manage multiple maps - they'll 'manage' themselves just fine, thank you.

Granted, I really, really wish we had an option to turn "Dupes idle" animations off; the constant ping does put a dent in that previous claim.

The other reason I find it different here - this makes it easier to make separate, dedicated areas for specialization without having to worry about them growing and bumping into each other.  Sometimes the "pipe spaghetti" gets a bit too real, you know?  Rather than have a single map get progressively more and more complicated... multiple maps are a nice tool for 'organizing' that complexity.  I can see dedicating asteroid #2 to petroleum production, and perhaps even sour gas boiling in the long run.  Asteroid #1 is great as a food factory and water exporter, and #3 is great for refined metal output.

There were a few times in the base game I considered trying to make a separate, second base elsewhere on the map... and eventually decided it just wasn't worth the trouble, as it'd be too hard to restrict dupilcants to just their own zone.  Too much micromanagement, if naught else.  Separate maps are a much more intuitive and elegant solution for that problem.

----------

I also like how each map so far has been designed with its own unique way to reach sustainability.

• Asteroid #1:  Tons of water; just use that directly!
  • Power's the challenge here, but it has extra space for ranches, and select critter imports can address the rest.
• Asteroid #2:  Petrol boiling (let alone sour-gas boiling) is sufficient to go water-positive with plenty of Power.
• Asteroid #3:  Pips + (wild) Arbor Trees can achieve water-positivity.  If that's not enough, some of the volcanoes are great for Steam-based power.

It's up to the player on how many challenges they take on at once and how quickly they progress.  If you only want one serious, long-term base... I can't help but notice that #2 and #3 have enough power potential that their main products could be almost entirely automated and exported via logistics.  I imagine they could eventually go Dupe-less!

[misotoma]

Interesting to see so many replies. Now that I actually am playing the DLC my views have changed A LOT.

Just hope they work out any kinks in the build and well.. Just looking forward to the actual release and keep playing to see how it is.. This game seems to have gone through so many changes since it launched.. I guess that's a good sign I'll enjoy this game for much longer.

[chemie]

On 12/3/2020 at 4:54 AM, JahwsUF said:

 

Granted, I really, really wish we had an option to turn "Dupes idle" animations off; the constant ping does put a dent in that previous claim.

You can turn this off, by world (although it does not persists between loads.  Just open the diagnostics menu and uncheck idle (i also turn off the breathability warning as it goes off when dupes are happily holding their breath.  Easier to have your own alarm tied to base O2 pressure)

On 12/1/2020 at 10:48 PM, gnatsum said:

I don't mind the new DLC content. Some of the mechanics are fun, however I miss not having multiple geysers to work with and integrate into a larger main base.   It would be nice if we could use the new DLC content without giving up so much on the initial map. 

That is the biggest issue I have with the small map.  Limited geysers and the dice roll could have much bigger relative impact on the quality of a map.