Can we talk about Wormwood

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Spirit Glow said:

But Wormwood was never a "MUST" for planting veggies, because although wild crops were useful, it still had downsides. Farms required a lot of resources but once you had them made, you could continue using them forever. As it is now with this update, there is practically no reason to grow wild crops, and every character can easily and cheaply make farm plots. So yeah, pretty useless.

is useless not having to deal nutrients, not having to make holes and tools to make them, plage and being able to insta grow veggies? 

 

[SpookyXy]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The benefit is the fun from the challenge. Wormwood's restricted healing is a perk.

His wild crops are just as useless as they've always been. There was never a reason to pick him other than for challenge because he never supported the team. For a small fraction of the effort a Wilson could produce an order of magnitude more food than Wormwood could, that food would work in every season, and that food could feed everyone.

Fun is subjective, his restricted healing makes the game harder by removing your ability to heal from food. It forces you to play the game differently which a lot of people (including myself) find fun but you can't call it a benefit when it takes options away from you. You can achieve nearly the same thing with any other character with a self imposed challenge (like no crockpot meals that give more than 5 health). 

As for your other point, I'm well aware there are more efficient ways to mass produce food. I don't think there's anything this Wilson could do that Wormwood couldn't also do in addition to throwing a couple seeds in the ground (those thing lying on the ground that take no effort to collect). What is this huge effort that goes into Wormwood's wild crops?

Wormwood's upsides are currently pretty weak compared to his downside and we already have Wes filling the role of a character you play when you want to shoot yourself in the foot. It's wild to me that the living plant, with plant based powers and a green thumb tab can't grow plants any faster or better than the other characters.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, SpookyXy said:

Fun is subjective, his restricted healing makes the game harder by removing your ability to heal from food. It forces you to play the game differently which a lot of people (including myself) find fun but you can't call it a benefit when it takes options away from you. You can achieve nearly the same thing with any other character with a self imposed challenge (like no crockpot meals that give more than 5 health). 

If that's "nearly the same thing" then Wormwood doesn't need any plant related abilities at all because you can already achieve "nearly the same thing" by just farming as someone else. Who cares about character perks? Just roleplay and pretend you're that character!

2 hours ago, SpookyXy said:

As for your other point, I'm well aware there are more efficient ways to mass produce food.

You clearly aren't, your entire position is that he used to be good but now he's bad. Wild crops are just as useless as they've always been.

2 hours ago, SpookyXy said:

Wormwood's upsides are currently pretty weak compared to his downside and we already have Wes filling the role of a character you play when you want to shoot yourself in the foot.

We don't need fun challenge characters because we have Mr. Deals Less Damage? That makes about as much sense as saying we don't need Wormwood because we already have a character that helps with food, we don't need Wendy or Wigfrid because we already have a character that helps with combat, we don't need WX because we already have a character that helps with light, we don't need Maxwell because we already have a character that helps with lumberjacking, we don't need Webber because we already have a character that helps with spider farming, and we don't need Winona because we already have a character that helps with setting traps. If we should only have one of each character archetype, for some reason, we'd only have like 5 characters.

Wes, Warly, and Wormwood have always been challenge characters. Each DLC introduced a new challenge character.

[Zuffie]

20 hours ago, bruhmoment23 said:

Wow. Your complex and insightful reasoning and arguements as to why Wormwood is trash tier, bottom of the barrel character really stood out to me mr op. I can't help but notice the effort and research you have put into this analysis. Astounding work, truly, such marvelous depictions are worthy of a grand prize, here have my reddit gold.

This made me smile so much thanks

12 hours ago, DarkPulse91 said:

Honestly. This kind of stuff is never useful.

Thinking as a game designer, you know you always want to improve things for the better, but sometimes you just dont know how,
then you have people saying this kind of stuff and THATS IT...

At least give some kind of constructive criticism or suggestions on how he can be improved. Just saying "___ is bad" wont help anything...

okay rant over.

Yeah my bad lol didn't meant to give a serious one in the first place

 

21 hours ago, Cheggf said:

He's not useless, he's a very fun challenge character.

I mean yeah?

But I think the perks he gives out can be easily replaced by something else much easier
even more with the new farm update (his living log crafting is still ok)

EDIT : And dunno , on Hamlet he had much more potential to his perks WHILE being challenging , like immunity to hay fever
and plant allies and much more
 

[sudoku]

I suppose for people who liked being seed slaves he is useless to them, but I always found the more interesting/fun part of his kit to be farming mushrooms/dark swords and don't mind losing the more tedious part of his play style.

[SpookyXy]

7 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If that's "nearly the same thing" then Wormwood doesn't need any plant related abilities at all because you can already achieve "nearly the same thing" by just farming as someone else. Who cares about character perks? Just roleplay and pretend you're that character!

You clearly aren't, your entire position is that he used to be good but now he's bad. Wild crops are just as useless as they've always been.

We don't need fun challenge characters because we have Mr. Deals Less Damage? That makes about as much sense as saying we don't need Wormwood because we already have a character that helps with food, we don't need Wendy or Wigfrid because we already have a character that helps with combat, we don't need WX because we already have a character that helps with light, we don't need Maxwell because we already have a character that helps with lumberjacking, we don't need Webber because we already have a character that helps with spider farming, and we don't need Winona because we already have a character that helps with setting traps. If we should only have one of each character archetype, for some reason, we'd only have like 5 characters.

Wes, Warly, and Wormwood have always been challenge characters. Each DLC introduced a new challenge character.

What I'm saying is Wormwood was a character designed around the old farming system and now the entire thing has been overhauled that Wormwood's farming abilities should be updated to reflect this change. Which it seems Klei is already aware of and is doing. If you don't care about character perks what is wrong with Wormwood's crops actually becoming useful instead of the inefficient waste of time they were before? The whole point of this update was to make farming more viable.

Warly is a challenging character to play but at least when you do you become the best crockpot character in the game with a bunch of exclusive and powerful dishes the whole team can use. Why can't the farming challenge character actually be the best farming character?

[Lord Cafe]

Wormwood is a little bad NOW but before that he was great, can you literraly before day 10 have more than 100 crops?(No) and let them grow while you pick good resources and when you get back you have thousands of food to keep you alive for ages and this give you time to do more important things, people who say wormwood was bad after this update literraly don't know who to play with him or say "Wendy can grab more food from spiders" dude this is not a "Wendy Starv Together" i don't wanna play ONLY WENDY  CUS SHE GRAB FOOD WITH ABIGAIL and beside that if you do one brable armor and footbal hat with some heal you  can easily beat down a lot of spiders nest faster than wendy so wormwood and i don't even need to say that he can easily do thousands of traps to beat the season giants without even need to fight which save you time to prepare to the hard ones(DF, Sea Bosses, Caves) was a awesome characters in the right hands if you have a wortox friend S+ easy put the old wicker in this team and is S++ but playing alone he need a good players instead people who literraly walk through the map without direction or plan to how to survive.

 

[Spirit Glow]

12 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is useless not having to deal nutrients, not having to make holes and tools to make them, plage and being able to insta grow veggies? 

 

Making tools and farm plots is laughably cheap. Also not sure what you are referring to about insta grow veggies. Can you explain?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Spirit Glow said:

Making tools and farm plots is laughably cheap. Also not sure what you are referring to about insta grow veggies. Can you explain?

maybe is cheap but for him is free and doesnt need to waste time to plant them

you can plant a seed and spam manure or other nutrient to make it grow at the moment

 

[Spirit Glow]

24 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maybe is cheap but for him is free and doesnt need to waste time to plant them

you can plant a seed and spam manure or other nutrient to make it grow at the moment

 

I just tried and that doesnt seem to work. Is this on the beta update?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Spirit Glow said:

I just tried and that doesnt seem to work. Is this on the beta update?

my bad, i though they didnt change how wormwood plants the seeds

[Tapirus]

I keep thinking Wormwood needs a better health system to cure itself.

[Ohan]

6 minutes ago, Tapirus said:

I keep thinking Wormwood needs a better health system to cure itself.

His Compost Wrap recently got buffed (beta branch) with an additional 15 hp over time so 30+15. I think it could stand to be buffed to 50 total so he only needs 3 to heal fully. 

Besides that i personally think his healing options are satisfactory. Sleeping can be seen as another built-in way to restore hp. By this i mean the fact that his wild crops generate so much free food that you can easily afford to sleep whenever you want. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

with the amount of seeds we get back i think he is actually stronger than before. Not mandatory to keep resources because farms were expensive but now he can gather even more veggies without need of using the hoe, shoveling weeds and detritus, etc

before he was a pain because how boring was plating, harvesting and feeding the bird, now is just plating and harvesting, plating and harvesting etc

[Tapirus]

2 hours ago, Ohan said:

His Compost Wrap recently got buffed (beta branch) with an additional 15 hp over time so 30+15. I think it could stand to be buffed to 50 total so he only needs 3 to heal fully.

I see, hope heals 50 hp too.

[jpmrocks]

I see a lot of folks havent kept up with the Wormwood changes:

- Compost wrap heals 45 hp over time (like how jellybeans heals) and it's animation is much faster than before, making it useful for combat. Compost wrap is also currently the best fertilizer in the game for the new farming system.

- Wormwood does not need a hoe to til spots for farming

- Wormwood plants seeds much faster than others

- Wormwood can directly say what the plant needs to be happy. Other characters would need the Premium/Ancient Gardeneer Helmet to do this.

Basically, Wormwood is still the best choice for farming, but he was also boosted in a few other areas.

[Wardin25]

2 hours ago, jpmrocks said:

I see a lot of folks havent kept up with the Wormwood changes:

- Compost wrap heals 45 hp over time (like how jellybeans heals) and it's animation is much faster than before, making it useful for combat. Compost wrap is also currently the best fertilizer in the game for the new farming system.

- Wormwood does not need a hoe to til spots for farming

- Wormwood plants seeds much faster than others

- Wormwood can directly say what the plant needs to be happy. Other characters would need the Premium/Ancient Gardeneer Helmet to do this.

Basically, Wormwood is still the best choice for farming, but he was also boosted in a few other areas.

Problem is that even if wormwood can do it faster and without a tool, its still very cheap for any other character to do it, and the know what the plants need ability is pretty underwhelming: plants need 5 things that are easy to know without wormwood telling you (Example: "Needs Water", its easy to see if a plot is watered or not, or if he says "Misses family", if you know about the family thing its clear that there arent 3 of its kind around)

[jpmrocks]

49 minutes ago, Wardin25 said:

Problem is that even if wormwood can do it faster and without a tool, its still very cheap for any other character to do it, and the know what the plants need ability is pretty underwhelming: plants need 5 things that are easy to know without wormwood telling you (Example: "Needs Water", its easy to see if a plot is watered or not, or if he says "Misses family", if you know about the family thing its clear that there arent 3 of its kind around)

That can also be said about the cook book. Or fishing. Or literally anything else in the game. If you know what to expect, why play anything else then Wilson.

[Copyafriend]

Okay well theres a major fact most people seem to be unaware of, his wild crops WERE NERFED INDIRECTLY, you can no longer give a crop to a bird and get more than 1 seed back, so if you’re farming as wormwood the only seeds you’’re getting are wild, the only way to get more than 1 seed is to satisfy requirements which aside from tending is impossible as a wild crop in other words wormwoods wild planting cant get more seeds outside of random seeds. He cant just feed his crops to a bird and plant more anymore, however many he puts in is how many seeds come out, it’s actually worthless aside from excess seeds, and at that point just make another tile or two to throw spare seeds into it wont cost u hardly anything

[toughguy290]

I personally think Wormwood was fine as he was before the changes, the differences now are just off-putting at best.

I think Wormwood as he was before then changes would be a character for those wanting to get into the new gardening system but need a helping hand in terms of abilities and features.

2 minutes ago, toughguy290 said:

I personally think Wormwood was fine as he was before the changes, the differences now are just off-putting at best.

I think Wormwood as he was before then changes would be a character for those wanting to get into the new gardening system but need a helping hand in terms of abilities and features.

And when I mean changes, I mean changes to Wormwood's character* 

I should have specified. 

[Pikapikap]

As the release time gets closer, I think maybe we will have more surprises about wormwood from next week

[HowlVoid]

I have been maining and soloing Wormwood for about a year now and anyone who is under the impression that his biggest perk is farming is 100% wrong. Anyone who thinks he is a challenge character is also wrong. His early game form of healing is bat bats and he offsets the sanity drain by planting seeds. This update literally changes nothing for me. All the seeds I planted would be left to rot and make way for mushroom planters. He is single handily the most self sustaining character in the game. Planting red/green mushroom spores for sanity and food and healing from bat bats (late game is jelly beans). I have never crafted a healing salve, poultice or compost wrap since I learned to use him correctly. If you have been using wormwood to feed the server than that's on you. The ONE and ONLY thing wormwood needs is a damage boost. Winona= catapults, Willow= Bernie, Warly= food, etc. An easy solution is to have bramble husks activate on proximity while still consuming durability. They are also kinda expensive late game. But this is also good opportunity to make him less dull. His perk are not exactly revolutionary.  

[MondayNight]

52 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I have never crafted a healing salve, poultice or compost wrap since I learned to use him correctly.

See, in context of your assertion there is no "use him correctly" way as you imply usage of Salves, Poultices and Compost is wrong whereas your niche choice of exchanging Sanity for HP via Bat Bat is what anyone should be doing. While is a most valid alternative of maintaining Wormwood's stats, by no mean is some "meta" optimal, only-way of doing so, as DST offers everyone a vast palette of play-styles and multiple solutions for a given problem. You can very much use your seeds for veggie crops to eat while exchanging Hunger for Sanity and HP via Tent (upping 2 stats, not only 1 - aspect some other players may find more efficient, albeit in a passive way, sleeping). If anything, your play-style can be considered selfish in the multiplayer DST is, as you prefer to make rot out of veggies that otherwise can sustain allies with whom you can accomplish things much faster provided they are moderately advanced players or at least casuals that listen well to advice.

As for your Bramble Husk issue, oceanic fishes exist, among which Mudfish and Black Catfish are quite common (sailing Ocean one finds loads of them all year-long), while Deep Bass being probably the easiest fish to catch (and you can also farm Malba this way for whatever purpose you may have; or leave when it inevitably spawns): if you sail frequently, have Stupefying Lures plus Down Quill Floats, getting 50% Bone Shards via Spoiled Fishes makes Husks not that expensive. Not mentioning Spoiled Fish Morsels (from Merm Farms via Bunnymen and/or fishing in Ponds) with their 25% Bone Shards drop. Likewise, if you're a... not-that-nice player, you can get newbies killed a lot by putting them in "sticky situations" (will leave this one to your sick creative imagination ).

 

Regarding a potential buff for Warmwood - akin to what previous commentators pointed at: buff Compost Wrap to heal 50 HP and call it a day on this front (for agriculture I won't comment, would certainly need some buff there as well).

[Zeklo]

7 hours ago, jpmrocks said:

That can also be said about the cook book. Or fishing. Or literally anything else in the game. If you know what to expect, why play anything else then Wilson.

I disagree with this sentiment. The issue with Wormwood's gardening perks right now is that the same thing can be achieved without the character.

Plant seeds without a hoe?
Saves a couple resources early-game irrelevant mid-to-end game.

Can understand plants needs?
A hat can do this.

Can plant crops in bulk?
The new plots are dirt cheap. Same deal, saves a few resources early game. That's it.

Think more in line with Wolfgang. Why is he revered so much?
Because the x6 damage multipler you can get with him can't be achieved otherwise, and is basically always relevant.

Why is Wurt controversial?
Because her 'main' perk can essentially be achieved with Bunnymen. Not quite exact, but near enough to have people split.

What Wormwood needs [in relation to gardening] is a non-structure/item that benefits the new system in an irreplaceable manner.

[HowlVoid]

33 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

See, in context of your assertion there is no "use him correctly" way as you imply usage of Salves, Poultices and Compost is wrong whereas your niche choice of exchanging Sanity for HP via Bat Bat is what anyone should be doing. While is a most valid alternative of maintaining Wormwood's stats, by no mean is some "meta" optimal, only-way of doing so, as DST offers everyone a vast palette of play-styles and multiple solutions for a given problem. You can very much use your seeds for veggie crops to eat while exchanging Hunger for Sanity and HP via Tent (upping 2 stats, not only 1 - aspect some other players may find more efficient, albeit in a passive way, sleeping). If anything, your play-style can be considered selfish in the multiplayer DST is, as you prefer to make rot out of veggies that otherwise can sustain allies with whom you can accomplish things much faster provided they are moderately advanced players or at least casuals that listen well to advice.

As for your Bramble Husk issue, oceanic fishes exist, among which Mudfish and Black Catfish are quite common (sailing Ocean one finds loads of them all year-long), while Deep Bass being probably the easiest fish to catch (and you can also farm Malba this way for whatever purpose you may have; or leave when it inevitably spawns): if you sail frequently, have Stupefying Lures plus Down Quill Floats, getting 50% Bone Shards via Spoiled Fishes makes Husks not that expensive. Not mentioning Spoiled Fish Morsels (from Merm Farms via Bunnymen and/or fishing in Ponds) with their 25% Bone Shards drop. Likewise, if you're a... not-that-nice player, you can get newbies killed a lot by putting them in "sticky situations" (will leave this one to your sick creative imagination ).

 

Regarding a potential buff for Warmwood - akin to what previous commentators pointed at: buff Compost Wrap to heal 50 HP and call it a day on this front (for agriculture I won't comment, would certainly need some buff there as well).

It isn't niche at all but you don't seem to be in the know how so Ill enlighten you. Bat bats are the most synergistic healing item in wormwoods toolkit EARLY GAME (I did say early game. Late game everyone can do everything). What's more, everything contained within the bat bats recipe can be auto farmed. Firstly, the main ingredient can be obtained nightly by simply fencing two bunny men at a sinkhole. Secondly, Wormwood can mass create living logs and they are self sustaining. A 510 hp "healing stick" (as I call them) can each provide the 2 living logs to the next bat bat at a net gain of 470hp. Thirdly, purple gems are plentiful via bosses, hound waves, vargs, and the ruins. The sanity exchange is the best part! Who else has the best sanity management than Wormwood? He takes no penalty from green mushrooms and can keep mushroom planters churning year around non-stop. Truthfully, I did forget about obtaining bones through spoiled fish but then again ocean fishing/fishing is a massive waste of time (IMHO). Healing salve biggest weakness is in the growth/amount of reeds and their sporadic placement AND they need great amount of investment (good late game).  Healing salves can also not be auto farmed as they require at the minimum shovels, pickaxe, or gunpowder/slurtle slime. All of this within a solo scenario which I did mention in the very first comment of my post. You can totally try to sleep in a tent in the middle of a dragonfly battle or hound wave. Let me know how that work out for you.