Now in testing - Reap what you Sow

[Waxwell Main]

What will happen with regular farmplots? Will they disappear when update will come to life?

[Maxposting]

8 minutes ago, Malithirm said:

What will happen with regular farmplots? Will they disappear when update will come to life?

The crafting disappeared, however they stay built in older worlds.

[TrashLord]

To think I came up with my own farming overhaul ideas just yesterday...

[Cheeto-Jesus]

3 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

Sir/Madame, you clearly don't realize how powerful Wicker is, this is nothing.

Please don't overreact to nerfs that won't affect Wicker's overall power in a team.

If anything, she needs more. 

For those with 1000+ hours (I have half of that but do play with one that does have it), few people if any are using berry bushes for main food sustenance. Berry bushes require too much upkeep, in the form of poop, rot, and waiting around. That's not to say that Wicker isn't good at doing everything. Wicker is pretty OP, but we need to find a way so that she maintains her current abilities in making resources. Perhaps something like 10 plants or less than 200 points of direct hunger value per book read, whichever is more. 

 

3 hours ago, KainMorgen said:

I get that you intend to overhaul how farming vegetables works. I might be ok with that.

But in regards to non-edible plants I strongly feel that Applied Horticulture should continue to work just the way it does right now.

Therefore I make my second point: Lureplant farms for twigs, grass, reeds and even stones with stone fruits (although the latter qualify for the edible category) are a wonderful thing for players who Like to megabase in their worlds with 3 or 4 digit day counts.

They provide a convenient and elegant way to stock up in basic resources for endgame players without spending tedious hours of holding space like the earlygame players do. Thus giving the endgame players more time to tinker with the game and building fun and interesting projects in their worlds.

Terraforming the whole constant in your unique way after mastering the survival aspect of DST is very fun and entertaining.

Holding space for an hour or so to collect basic twigs, grass and stone is just tedious and boring after a particular point in the game.

Yep! My thoughts exactly too. Having enough resources for mass building is much more satisfying than having to farm a ton of them later on. Me and my irl friend personally keep about 7 chests full of grass and 12 chests full of logs. I also know that I'm not the guy with the largest grass reserves either.

 

3 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

Thanks for the detailed elaboration that I was looking for.

With that said, I still don't see how megabasing is even remotely "destroyed" by having Horticulture nerfed. Alongside the Horticulture nerf, you also have the complete elimination of disease. The key issue here seems to be the twig and grass deficit, so why can't you make up that deficit due to Horticulture nerf with MORE transplanted grass tufts and saplings that grow on their own and, thanks to the lack of disease, will continue to produce grass for you to harvest for the rest of eternity?

Frankly, the only farm I see being nullified from the Horticulture nerf is the lureplant farm.

Yep, and lureplant farms are pretty great. Did the devs initially intend for this to be a thing? Perhaps not. Does it simplify life for people like me, who just want to build? Absolutely. And it's also pretty satisfying to be able to create something that "conquers" the constant. Or at least harnesses it somewhat. That's what I play for at this point, since survival with any character is easy with me at this time, and just surviving doesn't seem enough. Nerfing in a noncompetitive game just seems a bit excessive in my opinion, especially if this nerf takes away one of the key reasons people are able to gather large amounts of resources for later megabasing. 

It isn't even about the disease. I just turn off disease when I make worlds, and in general I think the community encourages that too. It's more about reducing the tedium that farming a bajillion grass (and other resources) can take.

Take a look at the true power of lureplant farms in this video. Nobody needs it between day 1-70, so it's really something that you build only if you intend on committing to a world for a very long time. (By that point too, you'd have proven that you can actually survive for the long term as well, which means that choosing other characters for their "ease" really doesn't matter that much.) Now imagine if you've had this for years (this vid's existed for 3 years by now and other designs existed earlier too), and then someone pulls away this rug from under you. 

 

 

[Rinkusan]

56 minutes ago, Cheeto-Jesus said:

Yep, and lureplant farms are pretty great. Did the devs initially intend for this to be a thing? Perhaps not. Does it simplify life for people like me, who just want to build? Absolutely. And it's also pretty satisfying to be able to create something that "conquers" the constant. Or at least harnesses it somewhat. That's what I play for at this point, since survival with any character is easy with me at this time, and just surviving doesn't seem enough. Nerfing in a noncompetitive game just seems a bit excessive in my opinion, especially if this nerf takes away one of the key reasons people are able to gather large amounts of resources for later megabasing. 

It isn't even about the disease. I just turn off disease when I make worlds, and in general I think the community encourages that too. It's more about reducing the tedium that farming a bajillion grass (and other resources) can take.

Take a look at the true power of lureplant farms in this video. Nobody needs it between day 1-70, so it's really something that you build only if you intend on committing to a world for a very long time. (By that point too, you'd have proven that you can actually survive for the long term as well, which means that choosing other characters for their "ease" really doesn't matter that much.) Now imagine if you've had this for years (this vid's existed for 3 years by now and other designs existed earlier too), and then someone pulls away this rug from under you. 

Sure, I get that lureplants are a convenient automated way of harvesting grass. But, as others have already pointed out, this doesn't make lureplant farms go away at all. I absolutely agree that DST is and should always stay a noncompetitive survival sandbox, but "noncompetitive" isn't a good reason to justify keeping core mechanics stagnant; if anything, the "easy" survival gameplay you pointed out is a reason to make these changes, and again, you still don't lose the automated lureplant farm to boot. The survival experience isn't rewarding if there's absolutely no challenge. 

If you're turning off mechanics like disease to make it easier to megabase, why is ANY nerf, let alone a Horticulture nerf, even a topic of concern? You could just set grass tufts to high, turn off seasonal obstacles, etc., couldn't you?

[FairyInABottle]

I'm not really a fan of this new farming system, as someone who primarily plays Wurt on public. It feels like it takes longer to get to a stable food level compared to old farms. It also doesn't help that you need a wider range of resources and you have to spend WAY more time at base.

[Mr Giggio]

15 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

It can be, but it still takes a lot of time. Grinding 480 grass takes 1 ingame day, and even in the endgame that can dissipate fast. Even with boards I have major struggles grinding them with bearger, despite me netting over 1400+ boards per run.

I know it's possible, but it's tedious. It's not like you are receiving major rewards for harvesting grass, you just harvest it because you need to. I don't find it fun, and I don't find it entertaining. Having ways to speed up the process is welcome, and the 3 book nerfs are complete opposite of how to do so.

Dude you are talkin and talkin about this when end game u have LOTS of papyrus, just read more times already omg

[Roodmas]

This might have been answered already, but there's too much reading back on these forums...

I've been watching videos on this update, and I noticed that if you harvest a normal plant, you only get one fruit/vegetable from it. According to this update, birds will now only drop one seed specific to the plant if you feed the crop to it. So how do you make the farm sustainable if you want to eat some of the crops you're growing?

I know that there are giant crops that you can hammer down to get multiple seeds and crops, but isn't that a lot of extra work for what is supposed to be the regular purpose of farming? (That is, keeping some of your harvest AND getting extra seeds.)

[AmigoInsonia]

33 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

This might have been answered already, but there's too much reading back on these forums...

I've been watching videos on this update, and I noticed that if you harvest a normal plant, you only get one fruit/vegetable from it. According to this update, birds will now only drop one seed specific to the plant if you feed the crop to it. So how do you make the farm sustainable if you want to eat some of the crops you're growing?

I know that there are giant crops that you can hammer down to get multiple seeds and crops, but isn't that a lot of extra work for what is supposed to be the regular purpose of farming? (That is, keeping some of your harvest AND getting extra seeds.)

The plant doesn't need to be giant for it to give seeds, it only needs to be happy. So if you attend to your crops a liittle bit, you'll get at least 1 crop and 1 seed. Now if you don't do anything with your crops and only plant them, you'll only get one crop and no seeds as you said.

[thelec47]

the farm idea and the bird cage adjustement are good but the bunnymen nerf is a bit too strong imo and the actual nerf of books should only be applie to crops and not the twigs grass stones fruit cuz they are very usefull for endgame gameplay :)

[Wes_Main_420]

We will be able to play DST as a twisted farming game, and I love that possibility!

[Ohan]

1 hour ago, Roodmas said:

So how do you make the farm sustainable if you want to eat some of the crops you're growing?

The major improvement that this change has brought is that you no longer have to sacrifice a single crop to the bird in order to perpetuate your farming. 66% crop sacrifice has been replaced with a small time investment in the form of making the plant happy. If its happy/in season etc it will drop 1 fruit/veg and 1 seed. so 1 random seed from the ground can sustain future crops indefinitely as long as you take minimal care of ur crops. No need to lose valuable food to bird RNG anymore. 

 

Making giant crops also isnt as daunting as it might seem, if u havent already i suggest you check out Zeklo's Farming 101 thread. it comes down to pairing the right plants in the right season together so they automatically make each other happy 

[Cheeto-Jesus]

3 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

Sure, I get that lureplants are a convenient automated way of harvesting grass. But, as others have already pointed out, this doesn't make lureplant farms go away at all. I absolutely agree that DST is and should always stay a noncompetitive survival sandbox, but "noncompetitive" isn't a good reason to justify keeping core mechanics stagnant; if anything, the "easy" survival gameplay you pointed out is a reason to make these changes, and again, you still don't lose the automated lureplant farm to boot. The survival experience isn't rewarding if there's absolutely no challenge. 

If you're turning off mechanics like disease to make it easier to megabase, why is ANY nerf, let alone a Horticulture nerf, even a topic of concern? You could just set grass tufts to high, turn off seasonal obstacles, etc., couldn't you?

It does make the process a lot slower though. I'll only be able to get more out of my yield by walking by every 3 game days, and every time I walk by and unload the screen, I'll get about 100 more grass. That's gonna be a lot less than simply getting 1500 grass per sitting, with a lot more legwork involved. Imagine if fences, doors, tents, drying racks and hay walls costed 15x more in grass resources. (Rope costs 45 grass now.) If I'm trying to prevent grass geckos from spawning (they decrease tuft counts and make things look uneven), I'll only be collecting grass by this lureplant method; this production nerf pretty much means a 15x increase in time needed to collect grass for items needed on high volumes. 

If I did actually want to read, then I'll need to read 10x the book amounts to achieve the same results, which also means 50x higher manure and seed needs, not to mention a 10x papyrus cost increase. Pretty much forces the farm to be passive instead of active, and at that point I might as well go with a grass gekko pen. That'll lag my computer to high heaven, but it's gonna take a lot less input than what I'm currently looking at (which is a ritualized walk-through of plants every couple of days).

The whole point of the lureplant farm is to build things at scale. It harms nobody since the equipment made is structural for the most part. 

Disease is pretty accepted as an option for people to turn off. To myself (no judgement to others, they can play however they like), I feel like setting grass tufts to high violates the game somewhat. It also defeats the purpose in that I'm still harvesting transplanted grass, which takes a fair bit of manual (manure?) input and takes a long time to collect. More tedium. Overall it's just a nerf that's a bit hard for me to swallow.

1 hour ago, MrSoratori said:

Dude you are talkin and talkin about this when end game u have LOTS of papyrus, just read more times already omg

Not Maxil, but as a megabaser I'm trying to say that this papyrus supply is gonna be harder to replenish too, since lureplant farms are turning passive. Unless you're actively farming for papyrus, the reading is gonna take more time to do pretty soon. Also, if this does go into full effect later on, we'll pretty much be hearing overwhelming praise on how the nerf was a step in the right direction (since not many people actually megabase and a lot more people abuse wicker's abilities for regular survival), and the small amount of dissenting voices will get drowned out. The few who are speaking need to speak out a bit, or else it may be hard for developers to take notice.

 

 

In either case, I think that having plants with a food value harvest (ie berry bushes, juicy berry bushes, lichen, glowberries, and farming crops) being affected by the 10 plant limit would be a great way to compromise on this problem. I'm completely on-board with that kind of nerf, since it does nerf Wickerbottom and still allows leeway for megabasers to build. Or maybe having Wicker's rework addressing this issue down the line would be nice, the downside of this solution being that it'll require a few more months of patience before a solution can come out.

[ansuman]

5x Manure 5x Seeds 2x Papyrus

33 sanity per reading for 10 plants

I wonder what use case does the book serve to make it viable to use.

[El Harry]

I really liked the new content, the new farms are great and function way better than they did before, perhaps they could change the applied horticulture nerf to function the way it did before and maybe tweak the recipie some more, i didn't see any problem on how the book worked, the main issue it had was the price, it was too cheap, changing the recipie to something more expensive like 5 poop 5 seeds 1 livinglog and removing the 10 plant limit could be a nice solution to the issue that'll further emphasize the Wicker + Wormwood combo

[samsung galaxy]

As one of the users who really like wicker, this patch is sad. Wicker can only grow 10 crops, are you serious? Now 90% of the reasons to pick her are gone. Farming has become more complicated than necessary, so I'll only eat honey ham now. I want you to know that there are users who hate change like me.

[Smarf]

It’ s cool they buffed farms and removed disease, but almost ever other change is disappointing. Increasing the number of bunny hutches is going to be way more difficult. The applied horticulture nerf goes way to far. Picking grass and twigs sucks. Having to use multiple books just to get the same harvest is back breaking. It’s funny that this will end up being a bigger nerf to wormwood. After every update I have to ask does Klei even play their own game.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, FairyInABottle said:

I'm not really a fan of this new farming system, as someone who primarily plays Wurt on public. It feels like it takes longer to get to a stable food level compared to old farms. It also doesn't help that you need a wider range of resources and you have to spend WAY more time at base.

Wat

You only need a tool that makes 4 tiles able to produce food made with few boards instead of entire stacks of grass, rocks and manure

Also, now you only need to harvest to get the veggie and the seed so it takes less time to get a good amount of seeds

Idk what you have tried but you dont need to be at base or waste resources

[Mr Giggio]

1 hour ago, Cheeto-Jesus said:

Not Maxil, but as a megabaser I'm trying to say that this papyrus supply is gonna be harder to replenish too, since lureplant farms are turning passive. Unless you're actively farming for papyrus, the reading is gonna take more time to do pretty soon. Also, if this does go into full effect later on, we'll pretty much be hearing overwhelming praise on how the nerf was a step in the right direction (since not many people actually megabase and a lot more people abuse wicker's abilities for regular survival), and the small amount of dissenting voices will get drowned out. The few who are speaking need to speak out a bit, or else it may be hard for developers to take notice.

Thats exactly the case when before this update needs just one use of the book give u all the reeds and now u just need to read more uses to get the same amount of. U loose some extra books but one singular use still provides more papyrus than the cost. Just balancing stuff cuz shes broken for real. I have a 4k days world and a megabase. U have a lil bit more work to do and are cryin about that like its the end of the world. Dude.

[Lord Jenkum]

I'm going to say outright that I'm a wicker main, and obviously I'm not a fan of the horticulture nerfs especially when considering its applications on mega basing later on. I really hope klei considers increasing the cost of the book and or decreasing the amount of uses the book has or the sanity cost rather than killing the book outright. It baffles me that wortox is still unchanged despite being the unquestionably strongest character in the game and wicker is getting shafted by this. All that being said this is still in beta hopefully klei decides to be a bit lighter with the wicker nerfs or decides to nerf her in an area other than her books.

[Eva-desu]

I cannot share the joy of this update. I sincerely don’t understand what it is for now. We've got unfinished water, non-renewed characters, something new in ruins. Why not complete at least one update branch? Why make another farmer and fisherman simulator? The unique game turns into some kind of chimera. I don't understand what the company is trying to achieve. It's sad to know that the game you loved so much is getting more and more broken.

[Sapientis]

2 minutes ago, Eva-desu said:

I cannot share the joy of this update. I sincerely don’t understand what it is for now. We've got unfinished water, non-renewed characters, something new in ruins. Why not complete at least one update branch? Why make another farmer and fisherman simulator? The unique game turns into some kind of chimera. I don't understand what the company is trying to achieve. It's sad to know that the game you loved so much is getting more and more broken.

It's possible there are many smaller teams working on different projects. They are all working on their things and want to share their progress when they reach a milestone.

I like to get updates more often even if they aren't fully developed, because we can provide instant feedback. Otherwise you'd get one big update after a year and you would feel like it's a whole new game.

All of those updates are also things community wanted, so I appreciate developers listen and work on everything partially, please don't undermine their work and effort to please us.

[viberr]

3 minutes ago, Eva-desu said:

 It's sad to know that the game you loved so much is getting more and more broken.

a better word to use there is"the game i loved so much is getting more and more broken" because in my opinion the game is doing great right now 

6 minutes ago, Eva-desu said:

We've got unfinished water

yeah and klei are working on it

 

7 minutes ago, Eva-desu said:

non-renewed characters

again klei are working on it

 

7 minutes ago, Eva-desu said:

something new in ruins

who would have guessed that klei are also working on this too

 

8 minutes ago, Eva-desu said:

It's sad to know that the game you loved so much is getting more and more broken.

how is it getting broken? just because some parts are unfinished doesn't mean the game is broken and klei are working on different stuff to make the game unique 

[laboule]

Absolutely genius update ! (my favourite so far in the return of them cycle) farms were always boring and now it's actually FUN to tend your crops and be mindfull about what you plant and where (wouldn't mind a golden hoe though as the regual one really has low durability). I don't mind the nerfs to rabbits and wicker, switching up the meta is great for the game overall (wicker mains are going to cry but there is no great change without a bit of suffering). I found a bug where if you pitchfork soil in winter (after the snow has settled) it crashes the game and prevents snow from falling again (actually somewhat usefull lol). thank you for all the love you're giving this game, it deserves it. keep up the good work !

[mkemal23]

36 minutes ago, Eva-desu said:

I cannot share the joy of this update. I sincerely don’t understand what it is for now. We've got unfinished water, non-renewed characters, something new in ruins. Why not complete at least one update branch? Why make another farmer and fisherman simulator? The unique game turns into some kind of chimera. I don't understand what the company is trying to achieve. It's sad to know that the game you loved so much is getting more and more broken.

If you loved the game that much you would have know that klei is still working at home and they still trying to make a good update for us. This is not end of the world and im sure klei is going to impress us when update is live.