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Should Klei do more Wendy or Woodie-esqe Reworks?


Are Woodie-esqe or Wendy-esqe reworks better?  

102 members have voted

  1. 1. Are Woodie-esqe or Wendy-esqe reworks better?

    • Woodie-esqe
      9
    • Wendy-esqe
      25
    • A little both
      10
    • Depends on the character
      57
    • Klei, should stops reworks completely since the current character are all fine where they are at
      1


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A simple question that requires some simple explenation:

A Woodie-esque rework is one where the character is flipped on thier head with new mechanics and items that they seem almost unrecognizable from their previous version. Woodie is the best example as all of mechanics, role, and even people's opinions where completely changed to better fit the character. It is debatable if his rework is good or not, but is not debatable that he was changed completely with his rework. This type of rework can give life to a character that was previously bland, but in that process might ruin what charm people saw in them before.

A Wendy-esque rework is one where the base character is relatively unchanged but there are some QOL changes and maybe a mechanics or two to buff them, but they play similar to how they are implemented. Wendy's rework was one that was well welcomed, but didn't do much in terms of changing the character. Sure, her new mechanics of soul juice and sisterly manipulation may have been long awaited answers to many of her main's problems, but she retained her same relative role which again is fine but it needs to be mention how it didn't make the waves that a rework usually does. A rework of her caliber is fine but it needs to be mentioned that, while the updates are greatly wanted and needed to make a better overall character, they don't have that much interesting about them. 

This is not a discussion of how the reworks were/are going to be handled, but rather instead of which type being better overall. Thank you to all who reply and have a good morning, day, night, infinite temporal zone you can't escape.

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1 minute ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Wes and Wilson definitely need Woodie type reworks, everyone else could get by Wendy type ones.

Eh? Shouldn't it be the exact opposite? :wilson_ecstatic:

Wilson is supposed to be the bland character for new comers to ease their toes into. Meanwhile Wes is supposed to be the milquetoast character to give a bit more of a challenge. It'd be hard to turn on its head a character specifically designed to be personification of Pantone 420 C is all I'm saying. 

Spoiler

Yes I'm well aware of the meme number :wilson_sneaky:

Spoiler

For those wondering what Pantone 420 C is...

Pin by sunny on (dragon age) champion helena hawke | Pantone ...

 

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I think in my honest opinion people are just biased towards particular characters, you guys can SAY that Wendy remained mostly unchanged while Woodie underwent a massive overhaul but that simply isn’t even true in the slightest Little bit.

Yes Woodie gained some new found powers and can now be a goose or a moose in addition to the beaver, but really all Klei did was split his resource gathering and combat mechanics people used strictly on old school Beaver form and gave him a new form so Moose & Beaver can each fill one of those roles, the only completely NEW feature he really got was the ability to scout land fast as a goose & That’s it.

Wendy on the other hand got more control over Abigail, but now playing as Wendy centers around collecting flower petals, mourning glory and having an inventory full of Ectoherbology potions to help aid your sister in helping you fight, Wendy now has to spend time playing with her own personal divining rod to locate lost things for Pipspook in exchange for Glory. Wendy can now also use Abigails glowing ghostly light as an emergency light source through night, or simply just to save durability on her torches/lanterns & she gained her own unique craftable structure the Sisturn that allows her to fill it with flower petals and while standing near it never have to worry about sanity drain ever again.

Arguably- The character who got reworked the most is going to be 100% Biased based on the characters you like- So this poll to me just seems highly unnecessary. 

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3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Arguably- The character who got reworked the most is going to be 100% Biased based on the characters you like- So this poll to me just seems highly unnecessary. 

Disreguarding you other points, that is not what is what this poll is about. Its about which is better, a complete flip on the head rework eith a bunch of new mechanics or a new one that leaves the character relatively unchanged in playstyle and mechanics. The only reason why I used woodie and wendy is because they were the easient examples. Another example of a Wendy-esqe rework would be Willow. While she has a different downside and Bernie gained thier hulk form, her general game play of burning stuff and taking advantage of fire is still the same. Her additions made her a better character, but she still has the same general gameplay as before, just better. A Woodie-esqe example would be Warly. Threw in a bunch of new foods and powders, reworked how his kitchen ware works, changed how he eats foods, making him completely different then how he was in SW. Again it isn't about how the reworks were handled, but which of the 2 rework types is better.

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Woodies refresh annihilated the old Woodie, and for a lot of people completely deleted what made Woodie great. I cant even play him anymore, hes not the same character that I loved in classic Don't Starve.

Wendy kept her core self intact, with some quality of life changes, slight baseline buffs to Abby, and an extra gimmick crafting tab that enhances what already made her good, and isnt intrusiveto her design. Just wish she didn't get so much bonus damage for attacking Abigails targets, it kinda nullifies Wendy's only downside.

 

Also Wendy's short was leagues above Woodies. Art style was preserved, the tone was preserved, and we actually got some lore/backstory.

 

The choice seems fairly obvious to me, atleast.

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9 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

Eh? Shouldn't it be the exact opposite? :wilson_ecstatic:

Wilson is supposed to be the bland character for new comers to ease their toes into. Meanwhile Wes is supposed to be the milquetoast character to give a bit more of a challenge. It'd be hard to turn on its head a character specifically designed to be personification of Pantone 420 C is all I'm saying. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes I'm well aware of the meme number :wilson_sneaky:

  Reveal hidden contents

For those wondering what Pantone 420 C is...

Pin by sunny on (dragon age) champion helena hawke | Pantone ...

 

Willow’s lighter and Woodie’s axe make them much more new player friendly. Wendy is fantastic for carrying new players through battles. Wickerbottom, Winona, and WX can fill a bland until you learn the game role. The perception that Wilson is useful for new players is a construct that doesn’t hold water.

Wes’ low usage shows that low stats on their own aren’t interesting. You can keep the low stats but add something unique and beneficial.

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28 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

His whole purpose is to be a character few people would main. :wilson_ecstatic:

Dude.. that’s not even slightly accurate lol, as someone who plays smite, (a game with a growing roster of over 90 unique playable characters) I believe I can safely say that there are ways to make a character challenging without them being boring.

Look at Aphrodite as an example- she’s very weak, super squishy and dies laughably easily on her own.. but when Aphrodite is surrounded by her teammates she gains buffs that quickly make her the number one target you want to single out and kill.

Dont like using Aphrodite as an example? Fine let’s look at one of Klei’s more recent game mechanics that was temporarily in the game- Glass Canon Wendy.

I’ll just save everyone reading this some time to state that Glass Canon means the lower your health the more damage you’ll deal but the closer you are to ya know dying.

Again I’ll reference smite- I main Izanami in that game, yup the one character who deals more damage the closer she gets to dying.. So while it was something I found odd to be applied to Wendy a character generally meant to be easy to play, it was still something I’m highly familiar with & would like to see Return, but on someone more deserving of having it. Someone like Wigfrid, Or Wolfgang, or.. Winona’s You get the idea.

Wes needs to remain to be challenging no doubt, but he also needs to be useful to a team and the self imposed challenges you choose to apply to yourself in picking Wes should only hinder YOUR Gameplay experience and not everyone else’s.

Wes being hungrier more often and dealing less damage and offering nothing at all that’s useful to his teammates just feels highly unappealing to me, Unlike Warly or Wormwood who to me are much harder challenge characters then Wes... except that Warly and Wormwood are helpful to a TEAM, where Wes just... is not...

Which is why I pray for an Aphrodite style rework with him. (Useless & dies laughably easily when off on his own, powerful and actually useful and contributing when around allies)

Something like him crafting a axe looking at it and then throwing it away before Miming that he’s chopping down a tree (durability of Mimed axe still goes down as if he had an axe in his hand) Mime chopping would obviously take longer to balance and stress the fact that he is the Hardcore character choice.

sounds silly right? No this is probably the BEST team perk they can give to Wes.. because the axe he tosses away is a real tool with full durability that another non-Wes player can pick up and use.. which makes Wes actually helpful to a Team while still keeping him completely useless when played alone.

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Wendy-Esque. What Klei did with Woodie is that they took the theme and feel of the character and completely replaced it with something else. Woodie went from a truly cursed werewolf-esque playstyle to a druid of sorts.

Wendy is a great representation of what, in my opinion, a character update should be. If the character's core fundamentals aren't broken, don't fix it. Instead, expand upon those fundamentals and resolve the problems that the old version had.

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Wendyesque, but i think it kinda depends on the character. 

I mean, the Wendy stuff looks great. She is the same character at core, but look at all those petal effects on the screen, the Abby meter, the new animations Abby has, you can turn her agressive, return her to the flower, summon her again... Wendy looks like a really polished character now and she no longer feels like "a Wilson with a ghost". Maybe it is me, but I just love this kind of details. 

I also like Bernie's new animations from the Willow rework. 

I used to play a lot of Woodie in solo DS, because i really like werewolf-themed characters, but now in DST I don't like him and his multi-morphing powers. I actually liked that log meter he used to have. I like the Moose and Goose animations, though. 

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Why are people asking for Maxwell to get a complete overhaul? I think he's one of the most well rounded characters in terms of power. Hard for new players due to low HP, but extremely useful for experienced players due to his fast resource gathering speed.

 

I don't think Maxwell really needs a rework but if he does I hope it's something small like tuning the shadow minions. Maybe something small like having the ability to start/stop the minions without the need to kill them similar to Wendy and Abigail.

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26 minutes ago, smallishbird said:

Why are people asking for Maxwell to get a complete overhaul? I think he's one of the most well rounded characters in terms of power. Hard for new players due to low HP, but extremely useful for experienced players due to his fast resource gathering speed.

 

I don't think Maxwell really needs a rework but if he does I hope it's something small like tuning the shadow minions. Maybe something small like having the ability to start/stop the minions without the need to kill them similar to Wendy and Abigail.

Because they can make him better? The new Wendy rework has you managing everything about Abigail from your inventory, you can summon her, vanquish her, rile her up, calm her down, apply healing effects to her.

What does Maxwell do? Throw a book on the ground that anyone can run up and steal to summon shadows of himself that can be killed in one hit.

What Maxwell SHOULD do? Be able to hold the book in his hand with a new Animation so he never has to drop it out of his inventory to summon various types of Workers, Instead of Boring shadows of himself though I would like to see some actual Shadow Magic Constructs like the ones he scares Wolfgang with in the Klei Hallowed Nights Photo provided below.

NEW Stuff like being able to summon a Shadow hand that temporarily grabs and roots enemies in place for a second or two, instead of needing pickaxes and axes then make shadow versions of himself, he should rely on Monsters like the Terror Beak (his version highlighted with purple Aurora to separate it between the good ones and the bad ones) to mine rocks.. etc.
The Shadow Duelists however should remain to be clones of himself but with some new key features...

They can now be equipped with armor like Dark Armor, Dark Helmets and Dark Swords. (Would need to be upgraded in roughly the same manor as applying Ectoherbology potions to Abigail)

One last important thing- Maxwell can command his shadow formations to do their job, or just stand idle- so they aren’t instantly chopping down your base if they’re summoned while in your base.

And when other players attempt to attack them, they will behave like actual Terrorbeak or Crawling horrors, (Breaking Apart and Relocating elsewhere) instead of you know just dying and becoming used up Nightmare fuel.

Maxwell can DEFIANTLY use a Rework same as everyone else. 

 

47C01736-0AE6-47D6-B5DD-984B7C2ED37D.jpeg

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I prefer Woody re-works. Much more interesting.

Or at the very least, if you are going to make a Wendy re-work. Make it coherent. Wendy's re-work was nice, but felt incomplete, it didn't change much her interactions with normal ghosts, and her ghostly elixirs are very unbalanced.

Though in general, depends on the character:

  • Winona is the example of a character that needed a full "Woody-work", but got a "Wendy-work".
  • Willow is the perfect example of a good "Wendy-work". Which honestly, is more a Wendy-work than Wendy's own re-work.
  • Woody was greatly improved from his "Woody-work", although needed a few tweaks.
  • Wendy got improved from her "Wendy-work", but I still think her ghost aspect was left incomplete, and the ghost elixir aspect is a huge balance mess.
  • Warly is a combination of both "Woody-work" and "Wendy-work", but was still pretty "bland" in general at the end (pun intended).

And for characters without a re-work:

  • "Wendy-work" include:
    • Webber. He just needs to "blend in" with the rest of the cast more smoothly.
    • Maxwell. Mostly needs to summon shadows without throwing the book on the ground (or just "remove" the book altogether and simply say he is always carrying it), and better shadow control and AI, and he would be set.
    • Wilson. He is the base character. I believe he just needs some few extra tools.
  • "Woody-work" include:
    • Wes. Being the challenge character in a co-op game just doesn't work.
    • Wigfrid. She is not really a viking, but an actress. It would be interesting to see more of that aspect of her. Maybe the combat aspect could be retained in all of her "acting roles", so, for example, she could play a "druid" and be a support (being able to heal and apply some weak buffs), or play a "jotunn" and be more tanky (having a much higher damage resistance), and of course, her viking warrior persona, that focuses on dealing damage. But she will only get "in character" while wearing the "headpiece" of that "acting role". I really think she could benefit from a straight-up "Woody-work".
    • WX-78. In general, it just needs to eat less gears, but would be amazing if you could "tweak" yourself. For example, you could equip yourself with something that makes you do more damage, but also makes you slower. Or something that makes you faster, but more susceptible to damage. Specifically, I am talking about "hardware" upgrades.
  • Or both:
    • Wickerbottom. She is currently the character with most potential because of how her books work. But also, she needs a few changes and be a bit more of a high-risk/high-reward character. Lower her health, make her unable to cast books if she does not have not enough sanity. But add more books, specially for combat.
    • Wolfgang. I believe he needs to change form in another manner, or at the very least the way his forms work should be different. Plus he needs to have more utility.
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4 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

Woodies refresh annihilated the old Woodie, and for a lot of people completely deleted what made Woodie great. I cant even play him anymore, hes not the same character that I loved in classic Don't Starve.

While I get that it personally ruined it for you and some others, he still is one of the most picked characters atm so I would imagine that it isn’t exactly a majority opinion that his rework wasn’t successful and saying he was annihilated is a bit of an overstatement. I do agree about the short though. I liked it a decent bit and thought it was fun, but it’s strange that he’s pretty much the only one who didn’t get lore attached. 

2 hours ago, smallishbird said:

Why are people asking for Maxwell to get a complete overhaul? I think he's one of the most well rounded characters in terms of power. Hard for new players due to low HP, but extremely useful for experienced players due to his fast resource gathering speed.

 

 

His whole story is being a magician and the theme of the reworks is the survivors fleshing out their abilities since they are adapting to the constant. A resource gatherer seems hardly fitting to be his main role whether or not it is functionally strong. He’s a good character just his identity is messed up and I personally think it could be so much more interesting and focus on his magic and manipulation of shadows.

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I think it depends on the character, someone like Wickerbottom would benefit more from a rework where she's basically the same-ish, but with significant enough changes, meanwhile, characters like Wolfgang, Wilson and Wes would benefit more from becoming more different, it's not something where they should always have the same mentality when changing characters, 'cause some characters may need more tools than others.

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My short answer to the thread's title question is:  "Wendy yes/maybe, Woodie HECK NO."

To elaborate a little more, I also think it depends on the character, and I don't think ALL reworks necessarily _should_  be big and dramatic in the first place!  Sometimes little quality-of-life tweaks are all we ever wanted (hi Willow). 

But IF we're talking _only_ about the go-big-or-go-home type reworks, then Wendy-esque.  

...Notorious

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Reworks are focusing on making each character stand apart from each other and be even more unique offering up a different playstyle based on the character you choose playing as.

Every Rework so far with the exception of Winona’s has given each character new items that they will need to lug around in their inventory to manage inventory space with, Items you NORMALLY would not have held onto- Like if your playing Woodie you’ll be holding Seeds & Transformation Idols more often, if your playing Willow Lighter, Bernie, Sewing Kits and Sanity Manipulating Stuff, If your playing Wendy Abigails Flower, Flower Petals, Mourning Glory & Ectoherbology Potions.

I am waiting to see Wilson, Wes and Wolfgang have their own additional Inventory items they will need to balance.

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I think the best rework to base off other characters (for the most part, with a few notable exceptions) should be Willow's rework. Willow's rework didn't change anything fundamental about the character, it just mostly did a lot of QoL changes along with some big community requests (Fire immunity, but I don't really care about this) and made her a more enjoyable character all around to play. I think Wendy's rework is the only other rework that comes close to this, but I also think Wendy's rework was a lot more INTERESTING than Willoiw's, so I think there's room for both. On the other hand, and I understand this is personal opinion, I did not really like Woodie's rework. It was interesting, too, and his Moose/Goose forms are pretty cool artistically, but I don't think it's really what Woodie needed at all.

 

It's weird because Woodie had already received a rework in the transition from DS to DST. I didn't like that rework, either, because I thought his singleplayer version was both way better and way more interesting.  I don't know how long you guys have  played, but I played before Maxwell, Woodie, and Wes were added to DST and I remember a lot of mods re-adding those characters. Woodie was ported as his base singleplayer form, and I found playing him really fun. There were some balance problems, such as other players being able to replant pinecones from trees you chopped to practically keep you in beaver form forever, but this wasn't really worth doing because you wouldn't be accomplishing much. 

 

i honestly don't think Maxwell needs a rework. He already received a really major one in the transition between Don't Starve to Don't Starve Together, and his new DST version is fantastic. He's obviously the best resource collector in the game by far, which, while consider it to be not very useful because it's sorta boring, the fact that he just "Does what other characters can do" faster is what MAKES those abilities so good. Gathering resources is what you will probably be spending most of your time in DST doing. Maxwell makes this process, with a slight resource cost, SIGNIFICANTLY faster, especially wood collecting. Due to his ability to chop trees, dig stumps, and collect the dropped wood at the same time, Maxwell can gather it at a speed completely unmatched by any other characters.

In the singleplayer game, he starts with a lot of items when you spawn in as him. Nightmare fuel, purple gems, a dark sword, and night armor. It's really bizarre, but that is the only perk he actually "lost" in transition to multiplayer. Everything else he gained was either "objectively" (I don't actually believe in objectivity, but for the sake of conversation the word fits right now) better than his singleplayer form, or just a sidegrade. While technically in singleplayer you could have your shadows do any of the major tasks without having to make specialized units for each kind (chopping, mining, etc.), it also meant that you yourself had to start chopping in order to get them to do it. Also, yes, Maxwell's shadow warriors are pretty bad. They have a lot of utility through weird exploits, but for the most part their only "legitimate" utility is to lock your sanity and fight nightmare creatures for an indefinite amount of time. That's not a worthless ability, though nightmare fuel isn't exactly a difficult resource to acquire without it. 

I think Maxwell is in a REALLY good state atm, and I worry that any rework he gets will only take away from his current extreme utility. 

Not really important, but I also wonder what they could even do for a Maxwell short. Just summarize the William Carter stuff? Maybe. Klei is probably more creative than me, but their Woodie short gives me a little less hope :P.

 

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Whoa Wait.. how can you not care about fire immunity at all? Don’t you realize how big of an impact that one small change makes? Willow no longer takes any damage from extinguishing fires, which means no need for Water Balloons or to waste resources on fueling up an Ice-Flingo Matic. If your playing ALONE Willow is a God Tier Character- Wearing a Top Hat+Holding Bernie+Standing inside a Roaring Flame regenerates your sanity faster then you can lose it. Yes there are Better options- But this is something you can do if your like me and prefer playing Nomad playstyles. 
 

Since I did not actually PLAY as Willow all that much in solo Don’t Starve I can not say what she did or did not have back then- But what I can say is that being able to use her lighter to instantly cook things is also something that should not be overlooked-

Spoiler

Your lighter and various cooked/Uncooked Mushrooms are what you’ll be using to easily manipulate your sanity levels to grow or shrink Bernie.

#WendyMain who is currently playing a 300 day+ world save as #TemporaryWillowMain

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25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

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I don't really think this makes Willow "god tier" as it's not really like the damage you take from extinguishing fires is that drastic, along with the fact that you can avoid summer smoldering all together if you base in oasis or caves. Fire immunity was a thing people use to constantly complain was removed from Willow, but it's relatively unimportant. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been added, I'm glad that it makes people happy and I'm glad you found a way to base your playstyle off of it, but I just don't really think it was a gamechanger like many said it would be. 

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45 minutes ago, BreadScientist said:

I don't really think this makes Willow "god tier" as it's not really like the damage you take from extinguishing fires is that drastic, along with the fact that you can avoid summer smoldering all together if you base in oasis or caves. Fire immunity was a thing people use to constantly complain was removed from Willow, but it's relatively unimportant. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been added, I'm glad that it makes people happy and I'm glad you found a way to base your playstyle off of it, but I just don't really think it was a gamechanger like many said it would be. 

I have to disagree, I’ve had packs of hounds chasing me that literally the ONLY way I was able to shake off If Bernie/nearby tree guardian/Deerclops/Bearger was not available was by standing inside DIRECTLY Inside a raging forest fire (controlled and you know not burning everything in your server away of course) The Fire will separate the hounds from one another allowing you breathing room to attack one at a time.

Not a big deal if your an expert know it all player and hounds are never a problem for you anymore, However it is a MASSIVE Deal for newer players that this strategy actually helps.

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