Next Rework?

[Theukon-dos]

10 hours ago, Jessie223 said:

woodie's refresh was fine (after the patch, of course)

the vast majority of players are happy with it, they just stay silent so it feels like there are more dissatisfied people than there really are

Winona's refresh made her a pick&swap character. You basically have no reason to continously play as her at all. She also went from having one of the blandest, most annoying downsides in the game to basically not having one at all.

 

Willow's downside compleatly forgot that she was a Pyromaniac. There's a lot of things that she could have done with that, but now instead she's just the one chick who brought a stuffed teddy bear. And at the same time they also revealed that she's a Pyrokinetic.

 

Woodie's rework, changed a lot about the character on the fundamental level. from what I had gatheered before the rework, basically all anyone wanted was for Woodie to be comparable to Maxwell in wood gathering, and for Werebeaver to not be Garbage. @Canis could tell you more, but There is certainly issue to be had with it.

 

Warly on the other hand is nearly perfect now. His downside's fun, his custom foods give him strong utility, and his custom craftables are a logical extention of his character.

 

Also, do note that "Vocal minority" doesn't mean that anyone who isn't speaking out is satisfied. There could esally be a large portion of the player base who doesn't engage here and is dissatisfied with Woodie's rework.

[Canis]

25 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Woodie's rework, changed a lot about the character on the fundamental level. from what I had gatheered before the rework, basically all anyone wanted was for Woodie to be comparable to Maxwell in wood gathering, and for Werebeaver to not be Garbage. @Canis could tell you more, but There is certainly issue to be had with it.

Thanks.

Yes, Woodie is viable now, but that's not necessarily what (ex-)Woodie mains like myself wanted. We just wanted the Werebeaver to not be a pure downside to use. I'm not sure about others, but I personally mained Woodie because I love the idea of Werewolves. Woodie's reworks takes him far away from this idea. Not to mention that he now has no downside, save for getting set to 0 hunger after a transformation. This is a large contrast to his past playstyle, which was to either actively fight off Woodie's curse, or embrace it and reap both the rewards and consequences.

To wrap this up, yes, Woodie is by all means a "good" character, but he is no longer has the playstyle that attracted myself and others.

Woodie is no longer cursed. He is blessed.

[Jessie_]

 

2 hours ago, Zeklo said:

I don't and I didn't say that. My point was YOU were making a generalization.

my bad, that was someone else

2 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Yet you immediately use a forum post with the community to back your argument... and once again I never even made this claim.

i was using it to show that even on the forums, the majority of people are satisfied, just a bit quiet about it

2 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Not to mention the thread you link has nothing to do with how "happy" people are with the rework. It's about whether people find Woodie strong now. Being strong doesn't immediately correlate to being content with a rework. An OP character (I'm not saying Woodie) may be strong, but that imbalance can and will upset some people—and it has.

 i used the percentage of people who are fine with the wereforms, not the percentage of people who found them overpowered (it literally says it right there in the options)

1 hour ago, Canis said:

but that's not necessarily what (ex-)Woodie mains like myself wanted.

that doesn't matter

being a main of one character doesn't entitle you to anything

[Jessie_]

2 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

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imo, winona and willow's reworks were underwhelming, but not terrible

winona was still practically wilson but with extra gadgets (which are admittedly great)

willow's bernie was better, but i really wanted her to have more interesting fire-based perks, and fire immunity wasn't really enough

warly and woodie's reworks are in my opinion great, and they give me hope that future reworks will be better

what "woodie mains" wanted for woodie doesn't matter AT ALL, nobody cares, klei doesn't have to bow down to them

nobody played woodie before, i can assure you most people just misrepresented or misremembered their experiences with old DST woodie and DS woodie, because a lot of their claims about them are easily disproven

what matters is the final outcome of the rework, and woodie's rework turned him into a very interesting character

lastly: nobody cares about downsides except dweebs who like whining about "character balance"

[Theukon-dos]

Just now, Jessie223 said:

lastly: nobody cares about downsides except dweebs who like whining about "character balance"

 

actually, no. While ther should be something to be said about balance, As seen with some recent characters, the downside can be the whole reason to play the character. Just ask any Wormwood main about why they main him, and it will probably be because of his downside.

 

Further more, A downside can encourage teamwork, with one character's upside countering another character's downside. One notable example of this is WX and Wickerbottom. Wicker can't eat stale foods, but WX can. This means that a duo of them can use there food much more efficently, and make a good team.

[Jessie_]

Just now, Theukon-dos said:

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i'm all for interesting downsides, just not downsides for the sake of downsides

i don't understand why at all people obsess over giving winona and woodie a "proper downside", it doesn't matter

[me real life]

2 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Further more, A downside can encourage teamwork, with one character's upside countering another character's downside. One notable example of this is WX and Wickerbottom. Wicker can't eat stale foods, but WX can. This means that a duo of them can use there food much more efficently, and make a good team.

This doesn't feel like a thing anyone actually does, it feels like something you came up with in theory and decided happens regularly. A Wickerbottom is just going to eat the stale food and get less benefits from it, she's not going to meet up with the WX-78 and give them stale food so they can get slightly more benefits from it than she could.

[Canis]

12 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

This doesn't feel like a thing anyone actually does, it feels like something you came up with in theory and decided happens regularly. A Wickerbottom is just going to eat the stale food and get less benefits from it, she's not going to meet up with the WX-78 and give them stale food so they can get slightly more benefits from it than she could.

Hold up.

He said "This means that a duo of them can use their food much more efficiently" not "Every player regularly does this so it's not new" or similar. That's not coming up with a theory, that's pointing out obvious character synergies that covers the other character's downside. Wickerbottom's downside of "having harsher penalties with spoiled food" and WX's upside of "ignoring spoiled food penalties" easily cover each other. Whether that is commonly put in practical play in pubs and stuff is a different story, but for example, if Wicker and WX are stocking up pierogi, and a stack goes stale, that stack would probably go to WX to maximize health output which is inarguably more important than Hunger in a boss fight.

[csc_unit]

23 hours ago, Rosten said:

If they seriously change Wendy I'm gonna be depressed tbh.

Yeah like if they give her bunch of shenanigans. They just really should work on Abigail ; focus on Abigail. Better AI, a defensive stance, diffent attack depending if fighting a boss or bunch of mobs. A better abigail against bosses where Wendy needs to control in some way Abi during fight. HUH!

[me real life]

4 minutes ago, Canis said:

but for example, if Wicker and WX are stocking up pierogi, and a stack goes stale, that stack would probably go to WX to maximize health output which is inarguably more important than Hunger in a boss fight.

This is such an unlikely and completely avoidable scenario. If this is the kind of thing that was being implied by "Wicker can't eat stale foods, but WX can," then I honestly don't see why it would even be worth bringing up as an example of a good downside that encourages teamwork.

[Canis]

4 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

This is such an unlikely and completely avoidable scenario. If this is the kind of thing that was being implied by "Wicker can't eat stale foods, but WX can," then I honestly don't see why it would even be worth bringing up as an example of a good downside that encourages teamwork.

It's quite literally a downside that is almost made to be covered by another's upside (If the perks didn't originate from Singleplayer, I would argue that it possibly seems to be by design with how similar the perks work.). Yes, this specific scenario doesn't happen too too often, but that doesn't stop it from being a perfect example of a downside being negated by an other's upside, if utilized correctly.

[Jessie_]

wicker's downsides aren't interesting

[me real life]

21 minutes ago, Canis said:

It's quite literally a downside that is almost made to be covered by another's upside (If the perks didn't originate from Singleplayer, I would argue that it possibly seems to be by design with how similar the perks work.). Yes, this specific scenario doesn't happen too too often, but that doesn't stop it from being a perfect example of a downside being negated by an other's upside, if utilized correctly.

Thank you for the clarification, all the replies before this had an implication that this is something that would come into play in the actual game, with the original post even confidentially saying that it makes WX-78 and Wickerbottom "a good team". If we're talking entirely from a game design standpoint, this is definitely a downside that's covered by another character's upside, and I apologize for misinterpreting the point.

[maradyne]

Honestly, I'm getting really sick of the silent majority/vocal minority crap.

If your thoughts on why things should change/stay the same are focused around 'all these invisible people agree with me' rather than what's fun, fitting, relevant, ect, ie making a good point, then you just end up annoying the people that you're pretending to represent.
And throwing out personal attacks and insults to anyone who doesn't agree with you certainly doesn't help. It encourages those you interact with to do the same, invalidating any decent discussions that might have the misfortune of being associated.
That applies to anything.

 

Do us all a favor and bring it somewhere else. I hear Reddit has nice weather this time of year.

[Gourmand]

2 minutes ago, maradyne said:

Honestly, I'm getting really sick of the silent majority/vocal minority crap.

If your thoughts on why things should change/stay the same are focused around 'all these invisible people agree with me' rather than what's fun, fitting, relevant, ect, ie making a good point, then you just end up annoying the people that you're pretending to represent.
And throwing out personal attacks and insults to anyone who doesn't agree with you certainly doesn't help. It encourages those you interact with to do the same, invalidating any decent discussions that might have the misfortune of being associated.
That applies to anything.

 

Do us all a favor and bring it somewhere else. I hear Reddit has nice weather this time of year.

Ok

[Jessie_]

16 minutes ago, maradyne said:

yeep

not trying to represent anyone, just stating that the opinions you see on the forums is just the minority, not a generally-held opinion

i'm not really sure how hard this is to understand

and last i've heard, a certain bunch of people around here keep pretending to represent all "veterans", so 

and since people seem to take the word "dweeb" very seriously for some reason, then i guess i apologise and i'll refrain from using that anymore

also afaik, this is a thread about future reworks, not past reworks, so i'd say we're going way off-topic

[maradyne]

Just now, Jessie223 said:

and last i've heard, a certain bunch of people around here keep pretending to represent all "veterans", so 

If you're referring to mentions of the mod, there's an entire (totally public) Discord server on the main topic, gathering ideas from "veterans"; it isn't representing all, so much as trying to represent whoever does take the time to give input.
If you feel there are some ideas that aren't being represented, feel free to join up and add em to the discussion; it's stayed lively.

But, we're getting a bit off topic.
Thanks for the olive branch, brah.

 

 

You know...
I would be interested in seeing another poll about who people think should be the next character rework in about a week or so. After people have had some time to try/see Wurt in action.
I feel like Webber and Wendy might be a bit closer in a second round; Webber's often considered the stronger one purely with Spider management, but Wendy has a wider variety of points that she interacts with the game.
With Webber being the main one overlapping with Wurt, the results might shift.

[SinancoTheBest]

3 hours ago, csc_unit said:

Yeah like if they give her bunch of shenanigans. They just really should work on Abigail ; focus on Abigail. Better AI, a defensive stance, diffent attack depending if fighting a boss or bunch of mobs. A better abigail against bosses where Wendy needs to control in some way Abi during fight. HUH!

I still want her to perform a ceremony of sorts to recharge graves. In a game of continuous survival like don't starve, one time use stuff are the zenith of bad game design and Graves are the poster child example of this; you dig them and the whole graveyard area becomes a useless foggy area with irremovable objects. Wendy, refilling these graves would both benefit the game design a lot and be thematic to her character.

Something simple like a bouquet of flowers made by petals, twigs and bone shards only craftable by Wendy that can be placed on graves, which recharges them in like 20 days and initially gives Wendy a minor sanity gain would be a perfect addition to her in my opinion.

[Jessie_]

wendy should be able to bury herself in a grave and never come out

[OMERICA]

22 minutes ago, Jessie223 said:

wendy should be able to bury herself in a grave and never come out

I mean that’s what she wants so..

[DST_LSJ]

No one prefer a new Wolfgang. He is perfect now.

Spoiler

 

[DarkPulse91]

While I agree that Wendy should be next, I voted WX due to his lack of teamwork and in some cases... harm.
Due to WX gear eating ability, this leads some WX players to join a world and either beg for gears for arguably no reason. Take most or even all of the gears without asking. Or in some cases, they will be given gears after asking nicely and proceed to die. All of these cases can harm the team early game while the base is still being built, due to the new lack of gears, the team wont be able to make fridges or flingos that would benefit everyone.
Second reason that WX should be reworked is that he is in too many lanes... He is both the fastest character, as well as the character with the highest health. This makes him both a scout... and a tank.. which, while sure that may be fun. It is also over powered. (this also comes with the fact that he has minimal downsides). If WX would be reworked, I would hope to see him stick to one lane only, either a scout (yes please) or a tank (eehhh)
The third reason that WX needs a rework is that he should be able to help the team in some way. All character reworks and new characters so far have brought those characters a way to help the team, or is something that can be used by the team. Such as Wortox's healing. Winona's cataults. Woodies various forms that help with gathering, combat, and map exploration. Warly's spices. Willow's Bernie that helps take the edge off of insanity. And Wurt's merms that are basically better pigs. But with WX, he provides nothing for the team as is essentially a solo character. While yes he is able to rush ruins very easily, he can also just rush ruins for themselves and take all the spoils. In his rework, he should provide something to the team.

All in all... WX is a mess of powerful perks with little to no downsides, leading to an OP solo character that provides nothing to the team or even hinders a starting team.
I am not saying that WX should just be "nerfed" with a few number tweeks.. Im saying that they need new abilities and have old ones scrapped...
Remove the ability to eat gears.
(But please keep his spoiled foods perk)

[BiddoBams]

I vote Webber specifically because I want to see his animated short first :> But also because he used to be my main before the reworks and DLC chars came out.

I hope his short actually explains what he is though and isn't like the Woodie one which was cool... but didn't explain anything about him.

[Mike23Ua]

The game is called Don’t Starve TOGETHER I wish there was more (together) stuff to do.. like Wortox, when he releases a souls he heals everyone near him, or Wormwood who can craft traps to help his team. Or even Wurt who can give her friends disguised to wear so they don’t get Merm Punched in the face venturing into Swamps.

i think it would be cool if I could Assign Abigail to follow around another player after I’ve summoned her (ESPECIALLY if you play this game with under experienced players who think punching a bee hive is a good idea) and trust me.. over on Xbox- it happens more often than I’d personally like to admit, Random people... haha! 

If you want comedy for Hours on end.. give a player playing Woodie (that doesn’t know about his reworked forms) the Itchy Goose Idol.. and convince them to eat it,

now THAT is Funny. 

[fimmatek]

15 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

You forgot Wurt and Wickerbottom. Wicker shares her books (especially cheap ones like Birds of the world and mass produces crops to support vegetarian lifestyle while Wurt provides all the tentacle spots and reeds thr old lady desires since they are both indigenous to Wurt's turf.

At first glance I thought you would say Wurt and Wicker can coop because Wurt can read her books

11 hours ago, Rosten said:

I seriously don't know where everyone gets the "Wendy falls behind all other characters" biz.

Y'all just suck at using Abigail tbh.

This. One of the few opinions about Wendy that I can fully agree with.

4 hours ago, maradyne said:

Honestly, I'm getting really sick of the silent majority/vocal minority crap.

[...]

Do us all a favor and bring it somewhere else. I hear Reddit has nice weather this time of year.

Agreed, but please, don't bring it anywhere, just look at the cursed lands called steam DST forums. That place is more toxic than the poisionous marsh in SW.

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

i think it would be cool if I could Assign Abigail to follow around another player after I’ve summoned her (ESPECIALLY if you play this game with under experienced players who think punching a bee hive is a good idea) and trust me.. over on Xbox- it happens more often than I’d personally like to admit, Random people... haha! 

Now that is a really good Wendy suggesion in my opinion. Could be fun, cooperative and have the potential for some interesting tactics. She would become pretty useful for playing on publics if she could send Abby to save or assist others. I can also imagine situations like "Go Abby, help Wortox getting souls till I build some more chests". It would be a fun mechanic to mess with.