I'm worried about Klei

[Maxposting]

Tbh Klei propably will make hella hard bosses in RoT

[Szczuku]

The only direction I'm afraid Klei'd go in the future is locking content behind mulitplayer aspect.

Just like they did with Lazy Deserter.

 

[BellumOmnes]

12 hours ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

I for one will only address the quote above: in past that teamwork amounted to advanced players picking Wofgangs and Wigfrids and going as a team of 4-5 such characters absolutely destroying anything in tens of seconds. Not even requiring much armor or healing, the sheer dmg output of 2 (Mighty) Wolfs and 2 Wigs obliterated foes in lol-ovations. Yet that was for advanced players playing as a team. Because bulk of players never reach end-game content, don't fight bosses, usually go casually at first autumn and die from starvation or turtle in base with menial tasks. The new character updates while being on the strong side (getting characters up towards the Holy-DST-Trinity levels or at least something around that) are aimed to promote Co-Op and to be a bit more accessible to the bulk of players.. or at least that's how I see it.

Also we haven't yet seen the new content boss-wise: maybe those new bosses require every bit of OP teamwork to be taken down, maybe old bosses will also be buffed (look at Bearger a bit). But in the end veteran advanced players will always master the game no matter on what highs it may be taken on, you will reach a plateau sooner or later. For now let's see what happens.

Most people, who still play this game don't realize that most casual or new players rarely survive a full year in this game, on the surface that is. So Caves, Ruins and bosses that require preparation more than showing up with a spear and a couple of helmets are left unnoticed. Which results in the game being called ''hard'' or straight up boring. I get that everyone likes a bit of challenge but most people speak from experience and this often devolves into elitism. ''Mods make the game easy'', ''buff foods are too powerful'', ''wolfgang can kill X in seconds'' welp perfect now someone who's a super casual player can enjoy bunch of stuff they never could before. It's not a competitive game and ultimately this doesn't matter. Who cares honestly? If you want a challenge after hundreds, if not thousands of hours, into this game this should be something self-imposed and not mandated by a vocal minority. Let the casual dude enjoy this awesome game.

[evantropia]

People take this game too seriously  Chillax dude, just don't do what you consider broken on the server you play.

[X-lem]

I don't think the game overall needs to be harder, there just needs to be harder things to do. Ruins and Giants are a good example of this. Putting in difficult things for more experienced players. RoT will probably be doing this.

Also, it's good to make a distinction between difficult and frustrating. It's often a fine line, but I would rather some thing be a little easier than frustrating. One makes me continually coming back to play, the other makes me play something else.

For example constantly trying to fight shadow monsters while fighting bosses is frustrating. Sure it's more difficult, but it's not a good difficult. 

[0rutyna0]

2 hours ago, BellumOmnes said:

Most people, who still play this game don't realize that most casual or new players rarely survive a full year in this game, on the surface that is. So Caves, Ruins and bosses that require preparation more than showing up with a spear and a couple of helmets are left unnoticed. Which results in the game being called ''hard'' or straight up boring. I get that everyone likes a bit of challenge but most people speak from experience and this often devolves into elitism. ''Mods make the game easy'', ''buff foods are too powerful'', ''wolfgang can kill X in seconds'' welp perfect now someone who's a super casual player can enjoy bunch of stuff they never could before. It's not a competitive game and ultimately this doesn't matter. Who cares honestly? If you want a challenge after hundreds, if not thousands of hours, into this game this should be something self-imposed and not mandated by a vocal minority. Let the casual dude enjoy this awesome game.

Yes, but it rather says that the game needs a difficult mod for these players with hundreds and thousands of hours of experience. It took me about 400 hours to learn how to survive for a year and not die stupid deaths. And these were the most interesting hours in the game. Someone on the forum said that this game is like a lock and keys - if you understood how to do something (found the key), then it ceases to be any problem. Okay, but does this turn the survival game into a quest? Survival is about the "pressure of the environment" - the longer you play, the more it should intensify, but here everything is just the opposite. Yes, we can set berry bushes to a minimum, and rain to a maximum of frequency, possibly even put an eternal night (but it breaks many things). But what will it change? Complicate the start? Yes. But when we find and transplant enough berry bushes to the base to feed ourselves and when we make umbrellas, what difference will there be to us how many berry bushes remain in the world and when the rain ends? What could be a worthy challenge and "pressure of the environment" in this game? Bosses? The first time may be, but when you understand how many times you can hit him before you start running back, it ceases to be a problem. In Hamlet, you have two years to find and stop a catastrophe - you have a lot to do in the allotted time. What if such a task stood in front of a group of players? And after its successful implementation there would be a screen with the inscription "You won" and the proposal to start the next batch with other conditions, under which you will have to adapt again, rather than a meaningless existence on a terraformed world.

[Faultz]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

The only direction I'm afraid Klei'd go in the future is locking content behind mulitplayer aspect.

Just like they did with Lazy Deserter.

 

Its a multiplayer game though . .  the balance should be around multiplayer not single player thats what dont starve is for.

[me real life]

13 hours ago, snugglysnootertoot said:

Don't need to cool down, don't need to stay warm, don't need to stay dry, don't need a light source,

But... you do, though? Warly simply existing in a server doesn't cause every player to have a stable body temperature, wetness immunity, and permanent lantern light emanating from them. Again, think of this in the context of the actual game. This hypothetical scenario will require the players of a world to actively farm asparagus, ice, dragonfruit, peppers, frog legs, fish, and glowberries. All of these meals will spoil without bundling wraps, too, so you can't just stockpile glowberry mousse for example, without killing the bee queen. You will have to return to base frequently to cook more as it runs out or spoils if you want to use it as your main light source. Not to mention that, unlike clothing items, you can't just unequip a food item once you don't need the effects of it anymore. If you eat a fish cordon bleu, but it turns out the rain only lasted a minute? Too bad. You'll have to make another for the next time it rains.

[Tosh]

Ummm... I wanted to jump in quickly and point out something about garlic powder. 

For people who don’t know, armour received a massive nerf in DST. In single player DS damage reduction was cumulative, meaning that one piece of armour reduced the amount of incoming damage... and the second piece reduced that number further.

In DST, only the higher level of damage reduction is applied, but the durability loss is split between both items.

I don’t see a hard-to-get item being a problem, especially one that underperforms when compared to DS’ standards. 

[Faultz]

i feel like they lost their way when they abandoned the the gateway storyline because of costs.

We were supposed to get 3-4 gateway events but they ended up cutting it because of server costs.

They have so many assets at their disposal via Shipwrecked & Hamlet, but  yet they create new assets for the Return of Them.

They could of easily finished the Gateway event after gorge and made us land in Hamlet or something and then reuse Hamlet assets - this could of easily been a DLC. Then while we are going through that content, they could add the new characters and reworks.

Most players in DST dont even play normal DS, and I think even vet players would of loved to experience those worlds with friends.

[Simplyee]

All they need to do is introduce enemies with reverse buff mechanics and all those percentages from warly's food just made you weaker and force you to 'get good' or in reality just go back to basic lol (bunny man cheese, catapults, army of wigfrid/ Wolfgang, on tentacles. Unless that new enemy does something about what I just mentioned).

 

All this did was make single player easier very late game. You swap into warly using celestial gate; make food, swap to Wolfgang. Get armor. Get buffed by food and max hunger , somehow make enemy wet then slap it with one dark sword. So now a solo player in dst can be comes a one man army at the cost of moonrocks and purple gems. Also note we don't all start the game with all bosses farmed. So you need to earn all of that.

[BellumOmnes]

52 minutes ago, 0rutyna0 said:

Yes, but it rather says that the game needs a difficult mod for these players with hundreds and thousands of hours of experience. It took me about 400 hours to learn how to survive for a year and not die stupid deaths. And these were the most interesting hours in the game. Someone on the forum said that this game is like a lock and keys - if you understood how to do something (found the key), then it ceases to be any problem. Okay, but does this turn the survival game into a quest? Survival is about the "pressure of the environment" - the longer you play, the more it should intensify, but here everything is just the opposite. Yes, we can set berry bushes to a minimum, and rain to a maximum of frequency, possibly even put an eternal night (but it breaks many things). But what will it change? Complicate the start? Yes. But when we find and transplant enough berry bushes to the base to feed ourselves and when we make umbrellas, what difference will there be to us how many berry bushes remain in the world and when the rain ends? What could be a worthy challenge and "pressure of the environment" in this game? Bosses? The first time may be, but when you understand how many times you can hit him before you start running back, it ceases to be a problem. In Hamlet, you have two years to find and stop a catastrophe - you have a lot to do in the allotted time. What if such a task stood in front of a group of players? And after its successful implementation there would be a screen with the inscription "You won" and the proposal to start the next batch with other conditions, under which you will have to adapt again, rather than a meaningless existence on a terraformed world.

This reads like you are bored with the game, bud. Literally at no time in the history of both DST and DS, survival got harder as the time passed and I honestly don't see why it should be this way. This is the exact elitist attitude, I wanted to highlight into my previous post. What's the point of life anyway bud? Eat, Sleep, Drink and create the generation that will replace you on a terraformed world minus the bosses you get to kill.. ?

[Maxposting]

I think it's broken but meh I want to play

[0rutyna0]

22 minutes ago, BellumOmnes said:

This reads like you are bored with the game, bud.

I know all recipes for crock pote, I killed all the bosses in a solo, I have a world with 3000 days. So yes, I need more content.

"Literally at no time in the history of both DST and DS, survival got harder as the time passed"
Do not know about Hamlet and poorly read what I wrote? If in Hamlet does not have time to deactivate the calendar, your survival will become very difficult (but still quite possible).

"I honestly don't see why it should be this way"
Because that's why people are playing survival games.

"What's the point of life anyway bud?"
"The meaning of life is just living." (The God)

"Eat, Sleep, Drink and create the generation"
How dare you forget "play good games" ?!

"will replace you on a terraformed world"
Let's go back to this conversation when in the real world everything that can be done / invented / built will be done / invented / built?

[Philip.]

6 hours ago, Catteflyterpill said:

Not to be rude, but where are you getting your numbers from? I don't feel like that's really the case. Game development is a long process, ask anybody. Game companies are constantly doing crunch time and overworking trying to produce content. A boss isn't made in a day, a lot of moving parts have to fit together to make something that is challenging, working, and fits into the game thematically and gameplay-wise. The amount of updates pushing out shows how much Klei has been responding to player demands.

I wouldn't say it better

[Szczuku]

1 hour ago, Faultz said:

Its a multiplayer game though . .  the balance should be around multiplayer not single player thats what dont starve is for.

I didn't say "balancing around multiplayer". I said "locking behind multiplayer". There's a difference.

For example I always play solo and can say from experience:

-You can solo every single boss in the game

-You can enter every location in the world solo

-You can't use Lazy Dezerter solo

That's what I mean. I don't want Klei to add, for example, an area that requires 2 buttons to be pressed at the same time. That'd mean that people who play solo would never get to try the content in that area

[Scrimbles]

After they broke the golden rule of "No multiplayer, that ruins the point of Don't Starve", they just stopped caring about upholding the point of the game.

They added pets, decorations, doors, made death easy to overcome, and they aren't making any attempt to balance the game to be hard.

All of the above were once thought of as the antithesis to what Don't Starve was meant to be, but clearly that doesn't matter anymore. They turned an "uncompromising wilderness survival" game into a megabasing chill party game now, and I hate the fact that Hamlet follows suit.m,

Same goes for all the bosses now, every single optional boss (including hamlets) just drops some overpowered armor/weapons/items or cosmetics, nothing you need to actually SURVIVE.

 

I guess at the end of the day more people are willing to play a "WACKY CARTOONY FUN PARTY GAME" than a "Bleak uncompromising survival that always wants to kill you".

5 hours ago, X-lem said:

I don't think the game overall needs to be harder, there just needs to be harder things to do. Ruins and Giants are a good example of this. Putting in difficult things for more experienced players. RoT will probably be doing this.

Also, it's good to make a distinction between difficult and frustrating. It's often a fine line, but I would rather some thing be a little easier than frustrating. One makes me continually coming back to play, the other makes me play something else.

For example constantly trying to fight shadow monsters while fighting bosses is frustrating. Sure it's more difficult, but it's not a good difficult. 

The entire point of Don't Starve is to be a "uncompromising wilderness survival".

The only difficult part of multiplayer is fighting optional, non threatening bosses that give out overpowered rewards.

It's not a survival game anymore, its a party game with additional pointless objectives that only exist for when you're bored of sitting around winning the entire game permanently.

 

We need that survival element back, not more bosses. That's why I HATE Hamlet, it's nothing but optional bosses, none of which actually threaten you, mega basing with towns that don't provide any actual survival benefit, and pointless weather effects that don't add any difficulty.

[sinisterrkid]

 

1 hour ago, Ogrecakes said:

[snip]

Well, for DST the bosses are optional because some of them are desgined to be fought in multiplayer, and so:

1) forcing them on a single player at a random time would be certain death, impeding progress (here I'm talking about mainly Bee Queen, Klaus, Toad, Fuelweaver.)

2) in cases of multiplayer need prior coordination and planning to be fought 

We could still have the season bosses forced upon us since for most of us here in the forums they are still easy with the double HP. 

 

Now to address this part: 

"Same goes for all the bosses now, every single optional boss (including hamlets) just drops some overpowered armor/weapons/items or cosmetics, nothing you need to actually survive."

For boss items to be necessary for survival, the options is: 

1) An event is triggered after a certain point in the game, at which point if you don't have a boss drop, you either die or have a lot of trouble staying alive for long

And that does sound cool, and actually sounds a lot like the Aporkalypse in Hamlet, which needs a solution even more creative then needing to kill a boss to overcome, but this: 

1) Didn't stop you from complaining about Hamlet 

2) Would still be an easy challenge for experienced players

[Faultz]

I think the quality has gone down.

They delayed RoT, because it was broken, every patch since then has been making it even worse.

Like the latest patch, literally play 1 hour and you could of saw that hound waves are not even making a audible notification anymore.

Instead they push the patch out in a rush before end of day and take off for the weekend.

What has really changed since the delay? It seems bugs have increased.

Thats why I think quality has gone down.

[Philip.]

15 minutes ago, Faultz said:

I think the quality has gone down.

They delayed RoT, because it was broken, every patch since then has been making it even worse.

Like the latest patch, literally play 1 hour and you could of saw that hound waves are not even making a audible notification anymore.

Instead they push the patch out in a rush before end of day and take off for the weekend.

What has really changed since the delay? It seems bugs have increased.

Thats why I think quality has gone down.

Yes, quality has dropped with the latest updates, but it's still a beta and you can play it or not. The latest updates were quite large and added more things to the game, so it is understandable that some bugs were fixed, but were fixed immediately after the Warly update. On July 26, 2019 (two days after the update with errors) he tried to update two on RoT and one on DST. I would say the quality is still not clear and there are still many bad things, so you can't judge it and the bugs come from upcoming updates, but it's just a beta, and when you play a beta, you have to count on the errors.

[Faultz]

4 minutes ago, Fi7iP said:

Yes, quality has dropped with the latest updates, but it's still a beta and you can play it or not. The latest updates were quite large and added more things to the game, so it is understandable that some bugs were fixed, but were fixed immediately after the Warly update. On July 26, 2019 (two days after the update with errors) he tried to update two on RoT and one on DST. I would say the quality is still not clear and there are still many bad things, so you can't judge it and the bugs come from upcoming updates, but it's just a beta, and when you play a beta, you have to count on the errors.

Yes I understand its beta, trust me im down for helping i have plenty of bug reports in.

But since they delayed RoT to main branch (June 20th) what has really changed since then? Its been over a month, yes I know development long process and small team yes i acknowledge that.

But what was really changed since the delay? I feel like more bugs have come from this. But no actual additional content has been added to the beta. (Warly doesnt count hes on main)

[-Variant]

2 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

I compressed this message till it doesn't exist. How neat.

I know it may be off topic but this is exactly why I LOVE Warly right now.

Seeing people suffering and dying constantly because they struggle with handling his downsides is really refreshing and brings me back to the days DS was uncompromising.

Now I ain't gonna lie, I love what DST has done, the decoration, the pets, and all that fun stuff, it's all really good, and I personally think it's all well made, but it doesn't exactly fit what DS was aiming for.

I have high hopes for RoT, I do believe it's trying to head in the right direction.

[JimmyJam]

I dont see the problem here... Team work is always going to be better then solo.

[Raspberry Shake]

10 hours ago, Faultz said:

Just follow charts. Anytime there is a big update or free weekend dst gets a spike but then fades. 

Yeah because people come to check out the game. Of course people are going to drop it for a while after checking it out, that's just how things work.

[Hekateras]

Oh boy.

People I play with have checked out Wortox and Warly as soon as they came out. From what I've seen, Wortox's increased demand for food is pretty damn good at balancing out his ability to be the party cleric. Warly is quite amusing to me because he's proving to be quite a difficult adjustment to my veteran friend (who has literally hundreds of hours on the game), who is now forced to actually get properly creative with his recipes - winter was especially tough for him that way. So nah. They're good characters and there's nothing wrong with them.

If you want a tougher experience aimed at vets who've already gotten bored with killing the Dragonfly, just install mods. I don't get it. There's a gazillion of them on the Workshop, presumably there must be a couple that accomplish what you want. It's not like the game punishes you at all for playing with mods. It sounds like you don't want to have a more challenging time to have fun, you want everyone else to have a harder time so *your* challenging time becomes more meaningful, because if the game gets "easier", then your perceived status as a game veteran who can easily kill bosses starts to mean less. Just relax and enjoy the game, dude.