Darkin Coaled Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 8 hours ago, mathmanican said: Hasty First Conclusion: For the sake of our water alone, if our options are to revert to the gas computations before, or keep the new changes, I would rather revert back and just deal with matter conversion. Math, because this is the internet you have to go find a mirror, give yourself a stern but kind look and gently but firmly, soberingly, slap yourself in the face a few times till you feel mildly uncomfortable. You done? Great. No. No you do not get to say things like this. Not after all the crusading and campaigning and whatnot. Not a good joke. Not a reasonable thing to just drop in one of your posts. No. That being said, keep at it, we'll get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonefarmer Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Wow , this explains why the cool steam geyser would build up either hydrogen or O2 and need to be vented out periodically. For the longest time I thought steam created o2 and water. The hydrogen I assumed was being condensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siromatik Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just tweaked around with this change : you can actually just delete/convert any gas-tile under 1800g with of-gasing stuff (PW, Slime, Bleach Stone...) like the behavior we had with Chlorine (or sort of ?). Is this an expected behaviour ? Top tile : 2000g, Bot tile : 1000g, PW bottle : 60kg It used 2800g of PW, 1000g to delete/convert original gas and 1800g to cap offgas. No lose. On a two tiles interaction, heavier gases tend to be replaced by Polluted O2, lighter will just be stacked up. So, for exemple, rooms full of CO2 will be dig/discovered full of P.O2 at some point because of the rotten meat/food or whatever offgas on botton. Top tile : 2000g/tile, Bot tile : 1000g/tile, PW bottle : 60kg Anyway gas are merging weirdly on this patch and can easily go up to +2kg/tile while there's some free tiles not far away (~5tiles) with the same gas under 1kg/tile. Further exploration, while doing thoses test, i found that you can overpressure a room with O2 by constantly sending and converting P.O2 with Deodorizer, not sure you could did this before the change. I mean did they changed something to how work the Deodorizer, like the active cross range or something ? Just be sure to always have P.O2 in pipes, or the vent will eventually overpressure if all the tiles are O2 tiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseitsei Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Siromatik said: Just tweaked around with this change : you can actually just delete/convert any gas-tile under 1800g with of-gasing stuff (PW, Slime, Bleach Stone...) like the behavior we had with Chlorine (or sort of ?). Is this an expected behaviour ? Top tile : 2000g, Bot tile : 1000g, PW bottle : 60kg It used 2800g of PW, 1000g to delete/convert original gas and 1800g to cap offgas. No lose. On a two tiles interaction, heavier gases tend to be replaced by Polluted O2, lighter will just be stacked up. So, for exemple, rooms full of CO2 will be dig/discovered full of P.O2 at some point because of the rotten meat/food or whatever offgas on botton. Top tile : 2000g/tile, Bot tile : 1000g/tile, PW bottle : 60kg Anyway gas are merging weirdly on this patch and can easily go up to +2kg/tile while there's some free tiles not far away (~5tiles) with the same gas under 1kg/tile. Further exploration, while doing thoses test, i found that you can overpressure a room with O2 by constantly sending and converting P.O2 with Deodorizer, not sure you could did this before the change. I mean did they changed something to how work the Deodorizer, like the active cross range or something ? Just be sure to always have P.O2 in pipes, or the vent will eventually overpressure if all the tiles are O2 tiles. So this is still not working properly :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambaire Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 7 hours ago, mathmanican said: Considering and both give the same face, though have different commands, I have given up trying to decipher what the emoji means. I am interested to see what people have to say about the new changes. Since matter is not conserved, I'm guessing in the next few weeks we'll find out exactly what it takes to change matter, and then new crazy contraptions will ensue. I'm a member of the SomethingAwful forums, and someone over there had this interpretation: As a professional software engineer AND emoji user , I can translate. They were saying: This was horrible to track down and fix. My life is hard. Why did I decide to work in games? Why didn’t I just work for LinkedIn or something making boring business software? Where did everything go wrong in my life? 45 minutes ago, Siromatik said: Just tweaked around with this change : you can actually just delete/convert any gas-tile under 1800g with of-gasing stuff (PW, Slime, Bleach Stone...) like the behavior we had with Chlorine (or sort of ?). Is this an expected behaviour ? Top tile : 2000g, Bot tile : 1000g, PW bottle : 60kg It used 2800g of PW, 1000g to delete/convert original gas and 1800g to cap offgas. No lose. On a two tiles interaction, heavier gases tend to be replaced by Polluted O2, lighter will just be stacked up. So, for exemple, rooms full of CO2 will be dig/discovered full of P.O2 at some point because of the rotten meat/food or whatever offgas on botton. Top tile : 2000g/tile, Bot tile : 1000g/tile, PW bottle : 60kg Anyway gas are merging weirdly on this patch and can easily go up to +2kg/tile while there's some free tiles not far away (~5tiles) with the same gas under 1kg/tile. Further exploration, while doing thoses test, i found that you can overpressure a room with O2 by constantly sending and converting P.O2 with Deodorizer, not sure you could did this before the change. I mean did they changed something to how work the Deodorizer, like the active cross range or something ? Just be sure to always have P.O2 in pipes, or the vent will eventually overpressure if all the tiles are O2 tiles. Wow. Please bug report that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des06des Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 My all time volcano tamer does not work any more. The liquid metal desapear when it solidifies into the salt wáter pool… Also the filter with element sensor + valve does not work any more. Please. revert the chage!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miauly Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Ambaire said: This was horrible to track down and fix. My life is hard. Why did I decide to work in games? Why didn’t I just work for LinkedIn or something making boring business software? Where did everything go wrong in my life? Judging by gas overrides reported in this thread, it could also be something along the lines "please, may this code change that I made just work and not cause another issues so I won't need to get into all of this again and try to come up with a way to fix it again". Whatever is actually going on behind the scenes, devs, best of luck with this code piece! Cheers for making the effort to make gases stable and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellilea Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I think the emotes were signifying confusion more thab anything - as in, where did that bug come from/hide again? I like that it's fixed. I think it should stay fixed. Perhaps some change could be made to the geysers to prevent the problem. New players will not vacuum the space, forget it. But I'm sure there could be some failsafe implemented like a quick void pulse before the steam expulsion or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpy Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 More like we're sure this isn't the end of this and will open pandorra box to more bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Can't we fix the over pressure issue like the temperature sensor does it? What it does is measure the temperature and outputs the average of the last 8 measurements. If the vent doesn't detect the pressure from the steam it just put out, but rather the average steam for the last cycle or so, then the steam will have time to even out the pressure across the room and not trigger due to a short burst of high pressure of steam right at the vent output cell. Alternatively it can measure the average pressure in the room cells within a certain range, but the average reading over time is more FPS friendly. 50 minutes ago, des06des said: My all time volcano tamer does not work any more. The liquid metal desapear when it solidifies into the salt wáter pool… That sounds horrible. Surely this has to be fixed. 51 minutes ago, des06des said: Also the filter with element sensor + valve does not work any more. Equally horrible, but I'm not certain it's related. Regardless of what caused this, it needs to be fixed. For the record, I didn't test either bug claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Lutzkhie said: I know its dead, but what is exactly this philosophers stone? I forgot to put a link to the history part (it was a link to myself). Here's a few fun posts of the disasters that could arise because of the old code. IF you want to play with them, you have till July 30th (revert to QOL3 and test away). Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siromatik Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 5 hours ago, des06des said: My all time volcano tamer does not work any more. The liquid metal desapear when it solidifies into the salt wáter pool… Also the filter with element sensor + valve does not work any more. I'm trying to reproduce this problem, can u sand a screenshot or better a savegame of your setup ? Liquid Metal actually goes nicely solid in liquids on my tests. And about element sensors + valve are you sure you didnt went out of power ? Got no problems on my side. @mathmanican Where is The Water Duplicator one ? Okay let me dig it again for you ahah ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 hours ago, Darkin Coaled said: Math, because this is the internet you have to go find a mirror, give yourself a stern but kind look and gently but firmly, soberingly, slap yourself in the face a few times till you feel mildly uncomfortable. You done? Great. Whew, that was refreshing. Hurt a bit, but helped. 6 hours ago, Darkin Coaled said: No. No you do not get to say things like this. Not after all the crusading and campaigning and whatnot. Not a good joke. Not a reasonable thing to just drop in one of your posts. No. I did put "hasty" in front of that conclusion. It was probably too hasty. My biggest worry with trying to fix the bug, one week before the full launch, is that this bug fix could potentially have cascading repercussions. Time will tell. I'm also pretty sure that we'll see lots of things surface over the next 2 weeks that we aren't spotting now. Fingers crossed that this bug fix doesn't result in other worse things...... Simple matter processing is dead. Free Carbon Skimming with deodorizers is dead. Steam vents turning into hydrogen vents (or NG plants if you've got a flatulent dupe) is dead. Those are all great moves. Sometime soon I'll test (in QOL3 and LU) and compile a list of the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, Siromatik said: @mathmanican Where is The Water Duplicator one ? Okay let me dig it again for you ahah ! That one is still in my chrome history, so if I start typing "Wat..." I get the link right off the bat. Should I stick with the old matter converter as my new profile pick, or swap to the water duplicator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siromatik Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, mathmanican said: That one is still in my chrome history Last post on the thread 22 March "still in my chrome history" OMG he's not cleaning his web browser history alarma alarma ! "old matter converter" look prettier anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf2010 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, mathmanican said: Should I stick with the old matter converter as my new profile pick, or swap to the water duplicator? The matter converter is prettier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siromatik Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 @mathmanican Still don't really know if i should Bug Report my experiences btw, and how big it impact regular game, but at some point, and with time, some rooms gonna be clean of any heavier gas (dunno how long time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxCD Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 hours ago, des06des said: Please. revert the chage!! Please don't. 21 minutes ago, Siromatik said: Still don't really know if i should Bug Report my experiences Please do. Usually, bugs aren't wanted in a game. Otherwise, it's not a bug, it's a designed cheat code. Of course there are a domino effect. Give them some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, Siromatik said: Still don't really know if i should Bug Report my experiences btw I'd report it. I thought for a long time that it was the same issue as matter conversion, so didn't both reporting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loscil2 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 18 hours ago, mathmanican said: that geyser outputs are halved, oh... Im reliant on nat gas too much... Am i gonna be affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Loscil2 said: nat gas too much Natural gas won't be affected. The problem was steam->water->vacuum(as water falls). The only affect would be with the cool steam geyser. You're safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentalis Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Hello, I rarely read the forums for inspiration in my contraptions. I had created a "hydrogen self-powered ventilation system" once and later came online to excitedly search about things like that and noticed that people called such contraption "SPOM" (this was like a year ago). Likewise, weeks ago I had already vacuumed out my steam geyser to prevent overpressure, way before I... a.- knew about the matter conversion bug b.- read anything in the forums about that c.- this update happened. New players will figure it out, there are way worse problems to deal with as a new player than a geyser giving off less water than you expect from reading the numbers alone. After you've lost your first bases you start paying attention to things behaving oddly, and when you see the geyser periodically say "overpressure (idle in 0.3 cycles)" you start thinking "uh oh... I need to fix this before I lose my base" on instinct. It's part of the learning curve. It was already part of the learning curve baaack when I started playing. And when I lost a base due to geyser problems it was not lack of water, it was too much heat, because new players don't yet know how important it's to insulate your base before heat death. I also lost a base to heat death from filters and fertilizer makers... you get it, really this is not that much of a bad problem. So @mathmanican, quit that nonsense about reverting back, as someone else said, even as a hasty conclusion this is completely (( Lemongrab voice )) UNACCEPTABLE!! ( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loscil2 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just now, mathmanican said: Natural gas won't be affected. The problem was steam->water->vacuum(as water falls). The only affect would be with the cool steam geyser. You're safe. Cool, ok thanks. Godspeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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