fiziologus Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Little (unclear) experiment with wheezwort in beta. Testing grounds (atmosphere – H2, about 2kg per tile): for wild for domectic (with periodicaly build sweeper and phosphorite tile) I just check temperature (via debug 'sample' tool) right above wort in begin each cycle and results (in Kelvine, of course): Wild: 308.8376 307.6022 306.5796 305.2443 3044222 303.1449 302.1964 300.9821 Domestic: 316.0535 315.1556 313.9636 312.8951 311.7477 309.8019 309.1118 307.3573 Calculate delta. Wild. Average temperature delta – 1.1222, or about 5390 DTU/cycle. Max delta – 1.3353 or about 6400 DTU/cycle. Domestic. Average temperature delta – 1.2423 or 5960 DTU/cycle. Max delta – 1.9458 or about 9340 DTU/cycle. No 4x boost for domestic or I miss something (phosphorite cannot insert so much heat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Looks like both are domestic. They are both using a farm tile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafker Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 It was mentioned before on forums (and I believe in bug tracker too), that wheezeworts are bugged No idea why wasn't it fixed first though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qda Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 In the first builds of launch upgrade, domestic WWs ran at 25% just like the domestic ones. I don't know if it has been fixed or not. Also, while the ratio between your two experiments is probably valid, the numbers themselves aren't, you didn't take in account every tile in your rooms, resulting in abysmal cooling numbers (optimal cooling is 12 kDTU/s, you are at a few kDTU/cycle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Reproduced this test: Starting room heat (both): 198.1 MJ After 1800 seconds (time measured by phosphorite consumption): Domestic room heat: 195.7 MJ Wild Room heat: 195.7 MJ Both delete 1.3 kW of heat. (Previously 12kW?) You should be able to replay the last two cycles of the test from here. TestBed Cycle 21.sav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qda Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Seems right. And yes, they could remove 12 kDTU/s in a 2kg hydrogen atmosphere before. Also, that proves the very minor impact of phosphorite on temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, nakomaru said: Both delete 1.3 kW of heat. (Previously 12kW?) An some people insist they are about as useful as before. The mind boggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiziologus Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 37 minutes ago, nakomaru said: Looks like both are domestic. They are both using a farm tile. Not. Wild wort sit on farm tile (debug copy-paste). Take a closer look. 30 minutes ago, qda said: In the first builds of launch upgrade, domestic WWs ran at 25% just like the domestic ones. I don't know if it has been fixed or not. Also, while the ratio between your two experiments is probably valid, the numbers themselves aren't, you didn't take in account every tile in your rooms, resulting in abysmal cooling numbers (optimal cooling is 12 kDTU/s, you are at a few kDTU/cycle) No matter. H2 have very good conductivity, and root temperature about same in all point. And I always check same time in about same time. @nakomaru also no very clear experiment, farm tile and dirt add some delta. But anyway, both results (you and mine) in general same: domestic WW consume valuable resource for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Quote that proves the very minor impact of phosphorite on temperature. It proves I controlled for phosphorite's heat capacity as best I could. A total change of about 3K was observed, so the impact was intentionally minor. Dreckos are born at 62.5 degrees, so an insulated lily farm will drift to their temperature and your phosphorite will generally be about 50~60, or maybe 10-25 for a controlled glossy farm. At worst (-60C cool room), you can lose 600 watts from cooling the phosphorite. Which is half the current output. Assuming domestic power gets quadrupled, it will be 1/8th lost to cooling at worst. In practice you might only have a 20C drop, which would be truly insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qda Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, fiziologus said: No matter. H2 have very good conductivity, and root temperature about same in all point. And I always check same time in about same time. I'm sorry but yes it does matter. Your results are expressed in DTU/cycle/tile. If you want the total cooling, you can't check a single tile but rather the sum of them. Hence why you get such low cooling values for each of your experiments. But again, what really mattered is the ratio between them, which is correct since your rooms are the same size. Thanks for the expriment btw ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, fiziologus said: @nakomaru also no very clear experiment, farm tile and dirt add some delta. Wrong. Both tiles are made of 100kg of dirt, and all matter started at 20C. And I used debug to count the total heat energy of the entire room anyway. The only error came from the 3K total change of the diminishing 60kg of phosphorite. As I used 4 significant digits to measure, and a difference of 0.0MJ was observed, both outputs came out to 1333 Watts with confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qda Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Also, to get an exact calculation, you have to add the hydrogen stored in the wheezewort itself. It won't change results significantly, but might improve them a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 I have no reason to suspect that debug's total energy measurement tool does not represent the total energy. Furthermore, both plants ostensibly have the same storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksteel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Nice decor on top of the experiment. Liam and Stinky died in the name of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qda Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, nakomaru said: Furthermore, both plants ostensibly have the same storage. Schooled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 53 minutes ago, nakomaru said: Reproduced this test: Test reproduced; Liam and Stinky still died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiziologus Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 31 minutes ago, nakomaru said: Wrong. Both tiles are made of 100kg of dirt, and all matter started at 20C. And I used debug to count the total heat energy of the entire room anyway. The only error came from the 3K total change of the diminishing 60kg of phosphorite. As I used 4 significant digits to measure, and a difference of 0.0MJ was observed, both outputs came out to 1333 Watts with confidence. Dirt and farm tile have same termodynamic stats? Impact no very big anyway (phosphorite is seal inside farm tile, no impact). Plus-minus few DTU change nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulwind Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 So basically wheezeworts are not only nerfed, they are bugged too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, fiziologus said: Dirt and farm tile have same termodynamic stats? Yes, they are both 100kg of 20C dirt to start in this case. They are thermodynamically identical as far as I know. And I measured the total energy by selecting every tile and reading the total joules. Even if it was different, the total energy change is all that matters, and that would have been accounted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimgaw Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, nakomaru said: They are thermodynamically identical as far as I know. Buildings (farm tile) and tiles have different heat transfer equations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiziologus Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Grimgaw said: Buildings (farm tile) and tiles have different heat transfer equations. It important only if calculate pure cooling number. For relative (compare) test Quote Plus-minus few DTU change nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Grimgaw said: Buildings (farm tile) and tiles have different heat transfer equations. Are you sure farm tiles are considered buildings? Built tiles are not buildings. Quote Buildings include pipes, wires, generators, etc. but not built tiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 20 minutes ago, Soulwind said: So basically wheezeworts are not only nerfed, they are bugged too. Yeah, great going. I am beginning to get a really bad feeling about the release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitaCoke Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 ****, I discovered this a tittle bit to late. was about to post this too. fig. 1 wild setup and domestic on the right side, same temp and same ammount of hydrogen cycle 96 fig.2 10 cycle later, the wild ones are even better, but as you can see on the right info panel, they consume only 250g/s wich is 1/4 of their actual power bug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, VitaCoke said: the wild ones are even better, Sweeper arm heat for the win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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