Imperitives Hurt (my) Enjoyment, can I turn them off please?

[Hechicera]

I got this AHA! in two phases. Despite the new biome shiny present feel, I was becoming bored faster than expected in the release test branch. This is despite me giving myself a good break to have no burnout from earlier testing at release. It wasn't the bugs, it was just less fun than expected. I kept wandering off to play something else once I had basics up. Which for me is ~80-150 cycles.

Then I was linked (for unrelated reasons) this youtube video of Charlie Cleveland redoing his GDC talk on Subnautica's design. In it he name check's Jamie Cheng (and you guy's Klei!) and a previous article he had on intrinsic/extrinsic rewards and achievements as the reason why they decided against them at all. (link at end with time stamp) Then had to put some in for consoles.

Then my AHA! bell went off. I had started sweating about working toward the "Imperatives" and stopped enjoying the intrinsic survival game that is the core of the start. This lead me to go play some other game every time.

All gamers may not be like me. Maybe you also need imperatives/achievements for some platform. I'm not a game designer, BUT!

For my enjoyment, and for others that may have already gravitated toward Klei (and Subnautia's reward system homage) since we are intrinsic reward players, would you consider a "Turn Off Imperatives" checkbox? I like the challenge of survival. So it is a form of Freeplay but not Sandbox.

So could I get a check box, like Sandbox, but for maybe "Freeplay" or "No Imperatives", which keeps all the other difficulty settings?

((Link to video hopefully at correct timestamp for the Cheng/Klei namecheck on achievements.))

[Junksteel]

Edit: I watched the video and I agree.

[Ellilea]

Personally, I like them. I don't feel compelled to follow them, but they give me direction when at times I might be lacking one. Which happens often once I've got the game's basics done/fulfilled some design fancy of mine/overcame an obstacle that had me stumped etc. They create a nice mix of self-set goals and something shiny to aim for if I'm feeling like it.

As much as I love Don't Starve (and I do), I've always wished there were some fun achievements/imperatives/goals there, because once I can survive I just don't feel as much of a drive to improve my stuff.

Some of my most fun and memorable playthroughs of achievement-filled games were achievement runs where I tried to get as many as possible at once, which forced me to get out my comfort zone and try some wacky stuff.

That being said, there's no reason not to have a box to turn them off if they bug some players \('-')/ I'd just not want them gone.

[SakuraKoi]

Wait... the "Imperatives" (Initiatives) can not be just ignored? I was pretty sure they don't have any rewards that effect gameplay so players like me who pretty much care 1% for achievements (and that 1% is simple inspiration on what one could do still). Otherwise, I can easily ignore them, turning them off would be more of a hassle.

Now TF2 was another matter entirely (achievements for equipment, that's real imperatives) and something I quickly grow bored of... though that might also be because of the PvP where victories tend to feel empty/easy and loses quite frustrating (for they too are overwhelming). [cut because I could go on about this topic all day]

[w00tyd00d]

I think this is a very fair request and I think can easily be accommodated for. It could just be a world setting when starting a new world, just a little checkbox underneath the "Survival or Sandbox" selection where you can toggle "World Imperatives" on or off at your own discretion.

I can definitely see both sides as to why one would want it and vice/versa.

[nakomaru]

ONI is the ultimate example of the intrinsic reward system. I can't think of why I would ever open the achievements tab if not on accident.

[SakuraKoi]

1 minute ago, nakomaru said:

ONI is the ultimate example of the intrinsic reward system. I can't think of why I would ever open the achievements tab if not on accident.

It (Colony Summary) has some neat statistics thou', not that I may ever bother to view it because it is a button and a click away rather than just either.

 

[Zarquan]

6 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

ONI is the ultimate example of the intrinsic reward system. I can't think of why I would ever open the achievements tab if not on accident.

Depends on the achievements.  "Launch a rocket before cycle x (maybe 100) in survival" would be a fun challenge.  I feel that achievements should be treated as guides and incentives to try to play the game in different ways.

[nakomaru]

Of course those are the kinds of things it is intended to do. I'm sure there's a person for whom they are interesting. They just happen to be completely irrelevant to me. I'm busy having fun on my own. (They also don't bother me - they are completely non existent.)

[Hechicera]

I am not trying to represent all players. In my case, their location was also problematic for ignoring them.

Every time I need to spend a skill point or check a printing cycle BOOM they are there reminding me that well, they are there. I can try to train myself to ignore them, of course, but the constant reminder did have an affect on me that it took reflection and some smarter designers to illuminate for me.

And I'm not even a hardcore non-cheevo/intrinsic gamer. At times I have cheevo chased in other games. I can certainly see this being a game specific setting even for me. I think the location as difficult to ignore though was subconsciously affecting me. They aren't tucked away like steam ones where I have to open the overlay to see them. So it did affect how I played and my emotional reward loop.

[kolyapedal]

OMG

seriously?

[Gracefulmuse]

I'm not sure how the achievement system has been implemented, so I cannot say for sure how easy it would be to remove. Klei is likely to focus more on bugs and clean up at the moment. 

If it is very simple to remove, perhaps you could put a request in the modding section and someone could throw it together for you, at least for now. 

[EnderCN]

I mean I'm fine with allowing you to turn these off but this is 100% in your own head, the imperatives don't mean anything and aren't in any way important to the game.  I think you probably are just bored of the game and looking for a cause more than this is actually an effect of this system.  This would be completely different if you had to chase these for progression of some sort but just having them exist is not hurting the game. 

But again a checkbox to turn them off is not going to hurt anyone so it is a completely valid request.

[goatt]

personally, i think this is a very good point. A checkbox won't hurt.

[mathmanican]

43 minutes ago, Hechicera said:

Every time I need to spend a skill point or check a printing cycle BOOM they are there reminding me that well, they are there. I can try to train myself to ignore them, of course, but the constant reminder did have an affect on me that it took reflection and some smarter designers to illuminate for me.

This is a great insight.  I hope the devs see this thread. The book "Punished by Rewards" comes to mind as well. Taking a good look at how they want to implement a "rewards" structure into ONI could have a huge impact on new players.  I'd love to give you a +100 for this post.