New wildplanting rules

[Mullematsch]

6 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Exactly so. But you must build them in order from left to right or right to left.

Makes sense. If they keep it this way, you can still build huge wild farms later.

Early game you have to rely on pips which is whatever to me.

Later in the game, clear a big area, put algae or fertilizer every 3 blocks, fill with steam to create the blocks. Afterwards create vacuum again, pump probably CO2 in there, cool it down a bit and then let the pips in...  

or even better like this: 

6 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

The most dense you can get is the 3/4 pattern, which is 43% linear density.

 

[Christophlette]

21 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Exactly so. But you must build them in order from left to right or right to left.

You get 33% linear density with this pattern.

The most dense you can get is the 3/4 pattern, which is 43% linear density.

Honestly I'm quite happy with this. I'll create lots of parks and put decoration in between plants or automation. 

It's not too OP, just nice.

[Gurgel]

12 hours ago, EnderCN said:

Well something had to change, it was downright broken before.  This game is already way too easy, they can't trivialize everything.

You confuse "easy" with "not a lot of work". Making things tedious and time-consuming does not make them hard. It just makes them boring.

[Junksteel]

My mind blew with wildplanting. For the first time I changed how the general shape of my bases were.

Making wild farms when you actually don't need them anymore is unlikely.

I agree it was pretty broken until this change, but now it's just one of those vanity things to accomplish in the game. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to have those features available. In the other hand, it's disapointing that such a cool concept is unlikely to be part of the core experience.

Btw, RIP lettuce in any shape or form. Rip wild wheezeworts.

All the recent changes put drecko ranching in the center of the game, which is cool and all, but wasn't it already sufficiently enforced?

[Lurve]

I like this change, actually.  One of the difficulties I was running into was a minmaxy need to preserve the entire forest biome for planting.  Every dirt tile dug was a wasted future wild plant, since I know I'll always be too lazy to construct dirt later.  This led to me putting all my stuff in the attic or basement biomes.

With the new rules, I can alternate plant-building-plant floors, only keeping the more optimally-spaced dirt and clearcutting wild plants in the rest.

2 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

It's disapointing that such a cool concept is unlikely to be part of the core experience.

We were already seeing DPs chide other people for planting in farm boxes, and using pips when ground-dropping would do.

[abud]

Ok @Christophlette and @nakomaru, I'm able to get time to test it without pressing matters in real world. It turns out mealwood part earlier is my mistake. not sure how that happens though. As a bonus, I also test multiple rows, how close vertically can be?

You might notice sleetwheat behind wheezewort, it just as @snoozer said, they are special indeed (and I'm happy with that).

Personally, I reject the idea of wild planting before, and I thought just another feature that I will ignore forever. But with these changes, I can accept it, because not too much different than avoid digging it in the first place (which can result in horrible base expansion slow down). Still a bit too dense to my liking, to be honest, but I can accept it considering we cannot easily make natural dirt tile.

In the previous version of ONI, usually, I mix wild and domesticated plants into the greenhouse. And this feature will be able to open possibility making them without looks so ugly shaped.

[nakomaru]

@abud May I ask, did you build from top to bottom, or bottom to top?

If the limit spacing is 5 vertically, I suspect that spacing might not be possible if you build from the bottom first. The plant exists one tile above the dirt, but the dirt is what checks for plants. So top to bottom, the plant is seen as further away.

I guess I should check.

Nosh beans possible is very interesting. I would have guessed they weren't due to their shared mechanics with wheat.

[Christophlette]

41 minutes ago, abud said:

'm able to get time to test it without pressing matters in real world. It turns out mealwood part earlier is my mistake. not sure how that happens though. As a bonus, I also test multiple rows, how close vertically can be?

You are awesome. It answers all questions for me. Thank you. I just got home and was about to test it but you did it so well that I don't need to test anything.

[pacovf]

So, if you manage to force pips to plant in a specific order (tedious and annoying), you can get 43% spots planted. If you let pips plant randomly, you will get  around 29% spots planted, on average.

This is because when pips plant a seed, they only check that the new plant doesn’t have too many plants around them, but they don’t check if they make *other* plants overcrowded. So order of planting matters.

There is a possibility they will change this, so that people don’t have an incentive to do something as tedious as “opening” planting spots one by one to pips to maximise plant density.

[nakomaru]

41 minutes ago, pacovf said:

There is a possibility they will change this, so that people don’t have an incentive to do something as tedious as “opening” planting spots one by one to pips to maximise plant density.

I do hope you're wrong. I prefer more options for creation than fewer in general. If they want to help the tedium, let us drop directly again. However, pips decide to plant to available spots extremely fast currently, so it's not a huge deal. You can build a big plot then cover them with another tile until they are ready. In practice, you generally are waiting for more seeds to gradually accumulate anyway. Letting pips plant in any tile would be nice for letting us preserve the environment rather than just manufacturing late game farms.

Two new notes. 1. Pips do not plant in vacuum.

2. As I suspected, order matters vertically. You must go top to bottom (right side) to achieve a plant every 5 tiles. And every 4 tiles is impossible.

I must say I was very against these changes at first, but after understanding them, I don't mind them.

 

[abud]

40 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

did you build from top to bottom, or bottom to top?

From top to bottom. Yes, it is 5 tiles if you count between their root (which counted as the center of plants). So if you use pincha, I think their root is bottom of the tile.

[nakomaru]

Good point. For upside down plants, you must plant from bottom to top.

For planting, the center is the tile of dirt, and the check is to the root of the plant - 6 tiles left or right, 5 tiles up or down. (a 13x11 rectangle centered on the dirt tile at time of planting)

[miauly]

Looks like "Wild Planting 101" is ready to be added to ONI player curriculum along with "Pipe Bridges 101".

For some reason I imagine that game designer reading this forum will think something along the lines of "we came up with three new rules to fix wild planting and keep our new special critter actually played, and players just crowd-sourced a new way to exploit it on the forum in less then a day? give me a break!" 

On a serious note, maybe food was never meant to be a limitation in game? After all, we have lillies + dreckos already, so maybe the idea is that all the food should be in principle available to sustain a lot of dupes, not just stretch all your geysers for pepper bread for like 16 dupes? Of course then the CPU will appear to be the limit for large colonies..

[qda]

3 hours ago, nakomaru said:

The most dense you can get is the 3/4 pattern, which is 43% linear density.

The pattern efficiency is actually not a fixed amount, 43% would be for an infinite amount of tiles.

(P = plant, S = space)

10 tiles : PPP SSSS PPP = 6 plants, 4 spaces = 60%

17 tiles : PPP SSSS PPP SSSS PPP = 9 plants, 8 spaces = 53%

24 tiles : PPP SSSS PPP SSSS PPP SSSS PPP = 12 plants, 12 spaces = 50%

31 tiles : you got it by now = 15 plants, 16 spaces = 48%

Since there is an incentive to build rooms of 24 or 31 tiles due to the nature reserves/parks bonuses, this efficiency is in practice very close to 50%, which is a great change. Now that I think about it, changing the space efficiency of wild farming was probably one of the best options to "nerf" it.

[Kwbrake]

12 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I think you mean awesome critter!

 

Awesome meat source.

I love new stuff, having a blast!!