Rust Deoxidizer

[KittenIsAGeek]

So, I was thinking about the rust deoxidizer today.  Basically it takes rust (iron oxide) and salt (sodium chloride) and gives you oxygen and chlorine.  ... what happens to the iron and sodium?  Shouldn't we get those metals back somehow?

 

****  NOTE: This is an old thread.  The operation of the deoxidizer has changed since this post was made and it now gives iron back. ****

[zergologist]

hmm,  maybe it just forgets iron and sodium exist

[Glassyfo]

Does sodium even exist as an element right now?

[DarkMaster13]

2 hours ago, bleeter6 said:

Does sodium even exist as an element right now?

No.  Technically though you can use salt vines to 'recombine' chlorine and sodium to make more salt.

[oosyrag]

Does anyone know how much chlorine vines eat? How many vines do you need per deoxydizer?

[pacovf]

Unfortunately, I don't think ONI ever made any pretense of following conservation of chemical elements, even less so than mass or energy, it would be faster to number the buildings that DO conserve chemical elements. Or maybe the deoxidiser is actually doing nuclear physics on the iron and sodium to convert them to oxygen and chlorine

[Sasza22]

Now that i think about it whatever the machine does is chemically incorrect. It would make sense if we got iron chloride out of that but not getting both oxygen and chlorine. That`s not how redox works.

I guess it`s to balance the game economy (just like hydrogen generators remove hydrogen). But when you start thinking about it it makes zero sense.

[Xuhybrid]

5 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Now that i think about it whatever the machine does is chemically incorrect. It would make sense if we got iron chloride out of that but not getting both oxygen and chlorine. That`s not how redox works.

I guess it`s to balance the game economy (just like hydrogen generators remove hydrogen). But when you start thinking about it it makes zero sense.

Just stop thinking then /s

[DarkMaster13]

9 hours ago, oosyrag said:

Does anyone know how much chlorine vines eat? How many vines do you need per deoxydizer?

Slightly more than one with domestics (20 g/s per deoxydizer vs 16.7 g/s per vine).  Wild will be the same as all the others, consuming and producing at a quarter the speed.  However you need a fair bit of chlorine for their base pressure, otherwise the plants will wilt but still consume sand.  So it's probably better to produce more chlorine than you consume.  Especially if your oxygen output gets backed up.

EDIT: Apparently both domestic and wild plants consume the same amount of chlorine.  Possibly an oversight.  The consumption tooltip doesn't always show up, but they're all consuming Cl pretty darn fast.  It only takes them a minute to suck up a full tile of Cl at the starting pressure of 1 kg.

[Sasza22]

1 minute ago, Xuhybrid said:

Just stop thinking then /s

I should. It causes more problems that it fixes. I wish i could just turn off my brain sometimes. I would be much happier.

[Xuhybrid]

1 minute ago, Sasza22 said:

I should. It causes more problems that it fixes. I wish i could just turn off my brain sometimes. I would be much happier.

Relatable.

[natanstarke]

Its just a new fun mechanic that enters in the " that dont need to be reallistic just need to be fun and have sinergys".

Im totally fine with it, im just not fine with rust biome not having its own critter, dreckos doenst fit there at all.

And the op ethanol loop that will be nerfed anyway.

[KittenIsAGeek]

9 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Now that i think about it whatever the machine does is chemically incorrect. It would make sense if we got iron chloride out of that but not getting both oxygen and chlorine. That`s not how redox works.

I was thinking along similar lines.   Oh well.. its a nice magic box that gives my base some air. =^.^=

[Glassyfo]

I'm not in the testing branch anymore, but are the input and output masses the same?

[KittenIsAGeek]

Input: 450g/s rust, 150g/s salt.  Output 570g/s oxygen, 30g/s chlorine.  So input 600g/s, output 600g/s.  Yes, input and output mass is the same.

[WanderingKid]

My personal gripe about the whole setup is that the Dasha Saltrocks are massive Chlorine eaters.  One Dasha takes 6 cycles to grow if planted (at 16.7 g/s) and produces 50 kg of Salt, which gives you 333 seconds (around 1/2 a cycle) of air.  You need 12 of them to supplement your air.  That's a lot of Chlorine you don't have.

[chromiumboy]

9 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

My personal gripe about the whole setup is that the Dasha Saltrocks are massive Chlorine eaters.  One Dasha takes 6 cycles to grow if planted (at 16.7 g/s) and produces 50 kg of Salt, which gives you 333 seconds (around 1/2 a cycle) of air.  You need 12 of them to supplement your air.  That's a lot of Chlorine you don't have.

I'm guessing that rust deoxdisers meant to be a stop gap solution until you can get enough water to switch to electrolysers. I found a chlorine geyser that makes enough to feed 10 saltvines, but that only puts a dint in my requirements. Plus rust isn't renewable anyways

[DarkMaster13]

2 hours ago, WanderingKid said:

My personal gripe about the whole setup is that the Dasha Saltrocks are massive Chlorine eaters.  One Dasha takes 6 cycles to grow if planted (at 16.7 g/s) and produces 50 kg of Salt, which gives you 333 seconds (around 1/2 a cycle) of air.  You need 12 of them to supplement your air.  That's a lot of Chlorine you don't have.

That isn't just the domestic ones.  Even wild ones consume the same amount of chlorine.  Dashas consume a full tile or 1 kg of chlorine in just a minute, which means they quickly vacuum out any areas they spawned in with chlorine.  All the wild Dashas are instantly wilted.  Apparently they're consuming 60 kg of chlorine to give out 50 kg of salt.  If you want to use realistic numbers, similar to the electrolizer, chlorine makes up around 60% of the mass of salt.  Therefore if the output is 50 kg of salt, they should consume half as much as they currently do (60% of 50 is 30) while domesticated and an eighth as much while wild.  That's 8.33 g/s domesticated and 2.08 g/s while wild.  Even with these numbers wild Dashas will still consume full tiles of chlorine gas in under 500 seconds, which is less than a cycle, and domestic ones still won't recycle enough salt to keep up with your deoxidizer.

A lot of the numbers for new things in the beta have to be non-final right now.  The oven consumes 500 g/s of natural gas, the recipe to convert salt to table salt takes 100 kg and outputs 5 g.  That output is in grams, not kilograms.  The desalinator can be mounted on the ceiling, but can't output its salt if you do so.  This is a beta, we should expect issues like this and the numbers will change.  That said, feedback like this is also useful to identify where the issues are and what needs to be changed.

[goboking]

Do we really want them to consume chlorine?  I get that the devs want a chlorine sink, but making one of the few renewable sources of salt consume the stuff means wild-growing saltvines aren't practical, and if we don't roll a chlorine geyser, domestic ones might not be either.

[axxionx12]

The rust deoxidizer appears to be an early game source of oxygen for asteroids with minimal water and no algae like Arbor or Aridio 

[Lurve]

20 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

So, I was thinking about the rust deoxidizer today.  Basically it takes rust (iron oxide) and salt (sodium chloride) and gives you oxygen and chlorine.  ... what happens to the iron and sodium?  Shouldn't we get those metals back somehow?

Early builds used sodium hydroxide as a waste product, but they removed it because Bobangel players kept having nervous breakdowns.

[Derringer]

On 7/2/2019 at 8:45 AM, Lurve said:

Early builds used sodium hydroxide as a waste product, but they removed it because Bobangel players kept having nervous breakdowns.

Once you start launching rockets in a Bob/Angel game, rocket fuel production will go through sodium hydroxide at an alarming rate.

Anyway, having sodium hydroxide and chlorine both falling out of one process is the perfect setup for sodium hypochlorite production. Bubble chlorine through concentrated sodium hydroxide solution in water to get a concentrated solution of mixed sodium chloride and hypochlorite with additional suspended solid salt. Sieve out the suspended salt then cool below 12°C and it separates into brine and bleach stone.

Maybe that would be another way to keep water weed happy now that the stuff demands bleach stone.

[Copy3ms]

On 7/1/2019 at 5:48 PM, natanstarke said:

And the op ethanol loop that will be nerfed anyway.

I really hope not. I have so many dreams and aspirations for that. 

[chemie]

16 minutes ago, Copy3ms said:

I really hope not. I have so many dreams and aspirations for that. 

nice necro but yah, it got nerfed just after that 3 week old comment

[Copy3ms]

2 minutes ago, chemie said:

nice necro but yah, it got nerfed just after that 3 week old comment

Oh well. It should still be pretty good then. Maybe you know this. IT's not worth to use the Rust Deoxidixer atm. I cant seem to get over the heat output and the over pressure issue without having the whole thing confined.