Winona Needs More Items to Make her Viable

[TheKingofSquirrels]

While I like the direction they went with Winona, I think she needs a few more special items to make her character viable. Currently, all she has is an ineffective light and a game breaking catapult. I would add things that a specifically dependent on electricity.

I just have two idea:

Refined Items Machine (Sawmill, Whirlwind)

So instead of wasting time refining 60x wood into planks, Winona has a stationary machine that refines items over time. The way it works is that you leave the raw materials inside it and, much like an oven in Minecraft, it will refine them. So you can leave 60x pieces of wood in the machine, go out to do other things and come back at the end of the day to find all the wood cut into planks.

It could be a special machine for each item. So for planks, it's a sawmill. For rope, it's a whirlwind machine. Or maybe it's just machine that refines all items.

I like this idea cause the automation fits with her factory worker background.

Electric Fence

So it's just another type of wall that does a small amount of damage to mobs that touch it or try to break it down. Maybe electrifies players as well when on.

That's all!

 

[Well-met]

umm they quite literally just did this. She was bland and had nothing but the sewing kit. Now shes got alot of buildings.

Why have a machine that does exactly the same as her perk? You don't want to waste time clicking 60 times yet you have this convenient character thats literally designed to do this in so much less time than others.

A wall that passively kills stuff sounds like an exploiter's wet dream. So many mobs in this game refuse to attack walls, and now they'd also die for it?

How do 2 structures that promote laziness and exploiting affect her "viability?"

[TheKingofSquirrels]

11 minutes ago, Hell-met said:

umm they quite literally just did this. She was bland and had nothing but the sewing kit. Now shes got alot of buildings.

Yeah, my point is that there just isn't enough.

12 minutes ago, Hell-met said:

Why have a machine that does exactly the same as her perk? You don't want to waste time clicking 60 times yet you have this convenient character thats literally designed to do this in so much less time than others.

Fair enough. It's just that when you're crafting A LOT of things, it can be time consuming, even for Winona.

13 minutes ago, Hell-met said:

A wall that passively kills stuff sounds like an exploiter's wet dream. So many mobs in this game refuse to attack walls, and now they'd also die for it?

Also fair, I would say that mobs would target the walls immediately after being shocked.

14 minutes ago, Hell-met said:

How do 2 structures that promote laziness and exploiting affect her "viability?"

I wouldn't call the refining station lazy, I would say it just saves time while you can be doing other things. I don't know, I was thinking it be interesting to add a sort of assembly line mechanic.

[JosePapp]

Winnona is fine as is, adding more would break her

[Loopy Ouroboros]

Once you build all the character-tied structures you will ever need, Winona would, in practical terms, revert back into being the very lackluster character she was before her overhaul.

 

[FreyaMaluk]

I think Winona feels a bit lackluster cuz she doesn't have enough character based perks...

more should be done to make her more interesting besides the "I craft fast" perk..

[Canis]

23 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I think Winona feels a bit lackluster cuz she doesn't have enough character based perks...

more should be done to make her more interesting besides the "I craft fast" perk..

Honestly, a perk that would knock off both problems that Winona has (her being viewed as a pick-and-drop character, and her not practically not having any downsides) would be fixed by having her machines need upkeep/maintenance. They no longer restore health, and instead need to be repaired. However, only Winona could be able to do this.

[Brago-sama]

winnona is practically a blank slate apart from her crafting mechanic, adding more structures/character specific recipes I feel would just further emphasize "use me for my structures and then switch characters"

 

What she wants are character specific perks/mechanics 

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, Canis said:

Honestly, a perk that would knock off both problems that Winona has (her being viewed as a pick-and-drop character, and her not practically not having any downsides) would be fixed by having her machines need upkeep/maintenance. They no longer restore health, and instead need to be repaired. However, only Winona could be able to do this.

not really.... this is again based on her crafts not on her innate perks

[Datanon]

give her the construction amulet perk when able to craft quickly but at the same time revert her hunger downside "hotfix" and increase the hunger lost. that will make her better for crafting while not allowing her to craft multiple cheap items quickly without giving anything in exchange, and also giving her a harder experience in the early game but making up for it, since thats when you craft most of the useful structures. that would also make her a better base caretaker

that COULD be OP with the magic and ancient tab but since shes more associated with brute force than magic those should just not be affected by this perk at all

[Alexias]

I think she is fine, her trusty tape is good which isn’t building.

The only change i want too see is that her constructions destroyed automatically and her tapes disappear when she switch off, that way people will not use her as pick n drop.

 

[ShadowDuelist]

My experience trying to like the new winona was that I end up getting bored by day 14th since she requires way way too many resources to make fun stuff, so unless I already have those materials, I really don't want to wait that much until starting seeing something interesting. I'm probably lazy though.

As an example to compare a character that can do something similar to the catapult farm (the player made tentcle trap) Wickerbottom can also craft other cheaper books like applied horticulture, sleepytime stories, and birds of the world and start having fun with those as early as day 2-3. Even tentacles can be used sparingly with just one reading, to help you kill for example smaller mobs like spiders or pigs. Its less efficient than the giant tentacle field, but it works nontheless. And even if you dont go to books, she can craft a beefalo saddle with just a science machine, so you can make the first exploration of the map in the first 10 days riding a beefalo with much less effort than anyone else. How awesome is that?

I agree with the previous posts that, at least to satisfy my laziness, I'd like something I can start having fun with in the early days. I tried using generators with just one catapult to kill lesser mobs, as a disposable thing (build, kill something, hammer down, precraft again) but despite the fact that it works, its a huge waste of rocks, which in the early game you need for other stuff.

Maybe a mini-version of catapults with much less damage, you can deploy and pick up without breaking after you are done would be cool: I've been thinking of a single tiny robot folllower just winona can craft and use, that picks up specific items on the ground for you, (EG: you give it a log, and it will pick up logs, until its full) and you can somehow put in attack mode and it turns into a tiny catapult that shoots enemies (with less damage than the regular catapult). After you are done with fights you just change it into follower-assistant mode again.

I don't know, its probably a bad a idea but thinking about "something like that" makes me, your lazy friendly neighborhood shadowduelist, sort of interested to try her again.

[axxel]

We suggested a repair perk to restore some durability percents on weapons+armor (by consuming duct tape). This would give the item a "repaired" adjective which will prevent a second repair. This perk should decrease hunger points (Winona needs some extra concentration doing maintenace of course!), justified how useful it could be. Maybe give it a chance to break the item depending on how many durability percent it has. 

[Viktor234]

Since she already got two emergency perks (Takes a free hit in the dark & crafts 100% faster if not hungry), I suggest giving her a 3rd emergency perk:

• If she takes lethal damage, she survives with exactly 1 health. Doesn't trigger by damage over time, by Charlie or if she has only 1 health.

[Maxposting]

4 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

If she takes lethal damage, she survives with exactly 1 health. Doesn't trigger by damage over time, by Charlie or if she has only 1 health.

*touches rose*

[pedregales]

As a quick-response to some comments:

Winona should not be the only one able to repair stuff (in case they need to be repaired). Otherwise she would become the Wickerbottom that Wolfgang calls for food, and WX for charges, this is from a multi-player perspective. Babysitting is never fun, and even more if everyone is able to use the machines (meaning they degrade faster in multi-player).

Her structures should not be destroyed when you switch characters. That is an awful idea. There have been mods to change characters mid-game before the Moon Portal, the Moon Portal is just a legit in-game way to do so, and if you don't like it, don't use it (and in this case is valid, because another player using it anyway barely affects you, since it is as if a Winona player came, did their thing, went away, and a "new" player came on with a different character). The Moon Portal added variability to old servers, and made playing with friends without resetting worlds, and trying new characters, possible without mods, which is nice.

----

Going back to topic...

I don't know if Winona should have more structures. I did suggest she could get another turret similar to the Houndius Shootius in another thread, but I also think that it should come with a "re-work" of the catapult (bigger AoE radius, more AoE damage, but much less direct damage, and slightly slower firing rate). But overall I think she is fine as is.

The idea of refinery machines is interesting, but sadly also pointless with her fast-crafting... And the electric fence, I am not really a fan of it but could be interesting.

[4 Da LOLs]

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

y experience trying to like the new winona was that I end up getting bored by day 14th since she requires way way too many resources to make fun stuff, so unless I already have those materials, I really don't want to wait that much until starting seeing something interesting. I'm probably lazy though.

exactly i consider Wagstaff the Winona update we should have had his perks are fun and easy to start a world and experience them, with his fun to negate downsides

and he changes how you use your head slot

his perks are useful for a variety of situations and fun to mess with

Winona has none of that she is only useful in a handful of situations and nothing to do early game a disappointment to be sure

[axxel]

1 hour ago, pedregales said:

Winona should not be the only one able to repair stuff (in case they need to be repaired). Otherwise she would become the Wickerbottom that Wolfgang calls for food, and WX for charges, this is from a multi-player perspective. Babysitting is never fun, and even more if everyone is able to use the machines (meaning they degrade faster in multi-player).

Mmm why not? I don't think this is babysitting. Right now not many people would call her out to repair clothes. But she is in the dilemma players would change to other characters after they set up the catapults and generators. Klei made everything right with Willow making lighter cooking and BERNIE only aviable to Willows so others cannot fully benifit from these items. This is my personal opinion so don't take it to heart.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

3 hours ago, pedregales said:

As a quick-response to some comments:

Winona should not be the only one able to repair stuff (in case they need to be repaired). Otherwise she would become the Wickerbottom that Wolfgang calls for food, and WX for charges, this is from a multi-player perspective. Babysitting is never fun, and even more if everyone is able to use the machines (meaning they degrade faster in multi-player).

I agree with the guy above me, I don't see this as baby sitting.

I see this as people having individual skills and putting those skills together in a team.

[pedregales]

You are Winona. You build 4 catapults + gemerator to deal with hounds. People not only use it for regular hounds, but also minor mobs they find on the way, and sometimes even bosses like deerclops. This are structures you will need to "repair" every 6-9 in-game days with Winona (at least in the mid to late game when plenty hounds are spawned per player). You don't fix them right away because you are doing something else, or maybe you are not on the server and there is not another Winona, meaning your catapults get destroyed because you didn't repair them and nobody else could, so you have to re-build them. You will not build hound-catapults and end of story, right? Yes to an extent, as you will still make them to deal with bosses (bee queen, toadstool, ...), every so many days, in a solo gameplay it is not a problem to deal with them only once an in-game year, but in a multi-player one you can't control the other players, who might try to kill bee queen every single time she respawns (severely damaging the catapults each time). It will take slightly longer for sure (and I mean, assuming no one uses them to fight hounds indirectly). You will have to stop/rush what you are doing to repair them on demand, or riot and not do it because you don't want to; and if you are not during the most critical time of repair, oh well, better rebuild it *shrugs*.

3 hours ago, axxel said:

Mmm why not? I don't think this is babysitting. Right now not many people would call her out to repair clothes. But she is in the dilemma players would change to other characters after they set up the catapults and generators. Klei made everything right with Willow making lighter cooking and BERNIE only aviable to Willows so others cannot fully benifit from these items. This is my personal opinion so don't take it to heart.

In my opinion this is a completely made-up problem of why a character needs a change. Most people will usually pick their favorites, reason why so many stick with Wigfrid over Wolfgang despite him being generally better in pretty much everything she does. Winona is perfect the way she is now, she could use changes, but she doesn't need them; whoever wanted to play her before the update did so, and whoever wants to play with her now will do so. People using Winona to make catapults to then change to another character, didn't want to play her on the first place, and they would have done so anyway.