Dear Klei, Regarding the recent Winter update

[LtShinySides]

A little unrealated: What's the point of the summer vest? And where do I find a Winter Koalafant?

[sirmentlegen]

A little unrealated: What's the point of the summer vest? And where do I find a Winter Koalafant?

Use the summer vest to keep warm, the winter koalafant is what you find instead of the regular one in winter.

[LtShinySides]

Use the summer vest to keep warm.

Yes but why would I need it in summer? Or is it just sorta a weak puffy vest for Winter?

[Syd]

A little unrealated: What's the point of the summer vest? And where do I find a Winter Koalafant?

The summer vest is mostly for dapperness to aid sanity, I think. It might help keep you a bit more warm than nothing at all during winter, but I don't think it's very effective.I think you find the Winter Koalafant pretty much the same way you find the normal one: hunting it down using its tracks. The only difference is that it only shows up in winter.

[sirmentlegen]

Yes but why would I need it in summer? Or is it just sorta a weak puffy vest for Winter?

It is a weaker version of the puffy vest, all the good stuff to survive winter can only be gotten in winter.

[TalentedM]

[MENTION=8666]TalentedM[/MENTION] I have to say one thing: The game sais "How long will you survive?" at the beginning. That's fancytalk for "You will die horribly".

Oh, I have no problem with dieing. I have no problem with learning a game through mistakes either. I am actually more of a fan of this game than I let on to believe sometimes and I only sing its praises to others I come across who haven't played it. I was merely mentioning that some people (and lets assume the market here is people and not massochists like myself and I am sure others on this forum and who enjoy it the same way) could be thrown off by the fact that the world seems a bit... Unforgiving for lack of a better descriptive word.Am I saying I think it should be easy? NOAm I saying I think the game needs to hold your hand? No...I am saying that I think the game should scale in difficulty. As it is the game has food rotting on you, pigs who take 1/2 a day to kill, warrior spiders on T1 nests (meh) and pretty much everything after 10 days wants to kill you and after that you have winter coming and you have to worry about. Do I love it? SURE... But as a human I realize I am not everyone and therefore should I voice MY opinion not state them as fact... But to show how I feel about the game.An improvement was made on the game. More things were added, things were nerfed, things were made more difficult and I accept these changes. I have suggestions for things, I have my own tweaks I would do to some things and I would probobly start with Pigs... I don't feel they should be 1v1 difficult, they are a numbers fear IMO... Much like zombies, I am not afraid of 1 slow moving zombie... but 10!? I'M RUNNIN'There are just some things I felt were unnecessary and maybe were just done to cater to a very specific audience and while I don't mind those choices I do feel as a consumer (not as a developer or am I saying in any way I can make a game, more just observational) that some things were changed in that way, to make the game harder for those who were saying it was "too easy". I thought Wes pretty much made that feeling obsolete and the changes the pigs and having warrior spiders T1 was kinda overkill... But just my observations.ANYWAY, wow my posts are long... Sorry for droning on and on!

[Avarice]

i think overall,this update makes the traps fully optimized...you can't live without them...almost all items in the game are now very useful...except for the tent...

10 chars

[Spazmatic]

It's funny how pigmen are now formidable opponents with their kiting and such but when you transform them into a werepig they are so damn easy to kill and actually yield more loot aswell.Do not fight pigmen but transform them into werepigs is the advice.

Here's a tip:If you have a bush hat,you can make the pigman turn into a werepig in a pig village,then while he is transforming hide in your bush hat,and don't come out untill the werepig is in combat with normal pigmen.This way you don't have to kill the werepig yourself and you won't get aggro'ed by the normal pigmen...

[MilleniumCount]

Now, this is sneaky! I love it.^^

[TalentedM]

It's funny how pigmen are now formidable opponents with their kiting and such but when you transform them into a werepig they are so damn easy to kill and actually yield more loot aswell.Do not fight pigmen but transform them into werepigs is the advice.

This is what I did. But the workaround is kinda annoying, not really necessary.

[_Q_]

This is what I did. But the workaround is kinda annoying, not really necessary.

No more tons of bacon for free, pigs moving into the right direction. Now you must use some tricks to get that pig skin and meat.

[TalentedM]

Tricksy piglets.

[wdfoster]

So basically, combat = left click/spacebar?Way to go.

Why reply to my post if you are going to condescend?I just don't believe existing mobs needed tweaking as far as stun-lock. I like the AI's use of kiting. That makes it interesting. However making me kite 2 measly spiders is lame IMO. Making the game "challenging" (aka tedious) =/= fun For me anyways. Might for you. But not for me.

[Karma Hound]

I think I missed a whole thin here about mobs and how strong they are. But, may I present the answer you are looking for... The boomerang! Pigmen running about? Boomerang that sunuvabich! Spiders take too many hit? Throw boomerangs at it! Birds s**tting all over your base? Throw a boomerang at those jerks and just see whose laughing then! Deerclops tearing apart your base with the same hands he used to create the entire world? Well throw a boomerang and watch as his neck breaks as if he where nothing but a kangeroo! I have many more uses for boomerangs but its annoying to type when you can't use any of these: .g,j and keep having to paste them in and on top of that the s key is sticky...

[_Q_]

I think I missed a whole thin here about mobs and how strong they are. But, may I present the answer you are looking for... The boomerang! Pigmen running about? Boomerang that sunuvabich! Spiders take too many hit? Throw boomerangs at it! Birds s**tting all over your base? Throw a boomerang at those jerks and just see whose laughing then! Deerclops tearing apart your base with the same hands he used to create the entire world? Well throw a boomerang and watch as his neck breaks as if he where nothing but a kangeroo! I have many more uses for boomerangs but its annoying to type when you can't use any of these: .g,j and keep having to paste them in and on top of that the s key is sticky...

You calling for ranged weapons nerf?

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k-ARuoSFflc

[Karma Hound]

You calling for ranged weapons nerf?

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k-ARuoSFflc

They could make the boomerang do 1 damage and I'd still prefer it over the spear, also I see you read my signature, no reason not to listen to that song one more time...

(Mainly because It's amazingness would seep out and cause things to explode...)

(Dear god this keyboard sucks)

Edited February 28, 2013 by Karma Hound

[Avarice]

I use the boom for birds, but it doesn't have enough uses to bother with big mobs.I don't need to kite spiders either, not sure why others having a hard time with them. The hotfix should of taken care of the warrior spiders in tier 1 nests, normal spiders or even 1-2 warrior spiders don't need to be kited to kill them with a spear. Just make sure you have full armor, and a pigskin helmet and you should be fine just standing right next to them and spamming the leftmouse button. Spacebar doesn't seem to go as fast as clicking though, so maybe that's the problem?

[Stormbringer]

I had a stack of honey/fair supply of morsels and monster meat for winter. Honey ham all day long!

[G4MR]

I disagree, I had 15+ farm plots going by day 6. Taking spider nests down during evening is also the easiest way to approach it since no spiders are home.

[w0bbl3r]

[MENTION=1992]w0bbl3r[/MENTION] just wanted to say that I've definitely appreciated your contributions here. Thank you! In order for us to build the best game possible, we really have to be bold in our decisions and willing to try things that might be unpopular. We then test the changes with as many people as possible, and filter the feedback through our vision of the game. This does mean that the game experience changes, and it's very true that even small changes can have wide effects to the gameplay. I've given several talks now about how a simple UI change can have vast implications to player expectations and behaviour. What I'm adamant on, though, is that as developers we cannot be timid in our approach. Our latest change absolutely requires players to relearn priorities; we're still testing our changes to see the long-term effects.I've heard a ton of your feedback and we really do hear it. If you're tired of the constant change, we totally understand, and hope you come back when the game launches!

Thanks. This is one of the main reasons I love you guys so much. This is fantastic how you respect and listen to your community, both the praise and the criticism.However, when I say the things in my previous post, I don't want you to think I am tired of you adding new content and fixing things up. I am just saying that changing the old things is a bit much, meaning that all the game is new after every 2 weeks.Trying to learn the new stuff in 2 weeks is ok, but trying to learn the new stuff AND relearn the older stuff is not fun, it's like cramming for an exam or something.I don't like the combat as it is, that's for sure. Making the game harder in every other way, and then making the combat this hard, is stopping people from enjoying the end game.I used to love getting past day 50, and just nicely plodding along surviving and then trying some new things. But now I can't ever get that far, because I am constantly having trouble getting past day 10, because I have to risk dying to get loot to make things so I can just get past the first 15 days or so when winter is coming.I know you can change how long the seasons last in the options, but I like to play a game how it is designed to be played, and this game is just changing too many old things to hold my attention anymore.Keep adding new stuff though, the new content IS amazing, no doubt at all. Just have a thought when you come to change older things, like fighting pigs or spiders, when people are already perfectly happy with it.I had a hard time getting used to the spiders after the queen update, I tried and tried and tried. I got used to it though, and while I still prefer the spiders before, I do enjoy the spiders now. I just get rid of the nests at tier 1 as soon as I can, because the higher tier nests aren't fun to fight. This update has changed all that again though, AND added so much new stuff to learn that it's like a different game. And I have to learn it all in 2 weeks, and then I will have to relearn it all again in 2 weeks when the next update comes.It should work that I have to weeks to implement what I have already learned and am getting better at, while learning to deal with the new content. That way you are adding to your knowledge of the game world, rather than having to relearn the whole thing because it keeps changing.I really appreciate your reply though, and I TRULY appreciate your company on the whole, you have been amazing with your customers, better than any other company in recent years that I have dealt with.I will keep giving the game a try after every update, but I can't see myself getting into it how I have in the past now because I just don't want to have to relearn everything I should already know, AND learn lot's of new things as well

[osadat]

Thank you all for posting i am reading every comment and I am coping my play style with the update again thank you Klei for an awesome game!

[osadat]

I will use traps more often now I just got unlucky spawn

Edited February 28, 2013 by osadat

[w0bbl3r]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you do not like exploring new mechanics and tunings with every update then perhaps betas are not for you. Please try the game again when it is finished

You misunderstand. I LOVE the updates, but people are happy with things how they are, so why change them and add new things? That just means they have to relearn everything.Not many people consider this a beta as such. I certainly don't. Beta's are usually buggy and have problems, and people playing them helps the devs iron out those problems. This game has less problems than your average AAA full release. It is one of the most stable games I have ever played.Also, it has been stated the game will continue to receive these updates for at least 6 months after release, so this isn't a beta thing, is it?But please do keep up the updates, all I am suggesting is perhaps think about what you change when you are also adding a ton of new stuff to learn.From what I can see there are quite a few people saying very similar things after this update. I really would like to see some of the combat mechanics change back, that's for sure. But I would never suggest no tuning or changes, that's not what I meant to say at all. Just that relearning everything every two weeks is a chore rather than fun, and it can be very very hard work when you are trying to learn new things as well.Maybe try not adding so much every update? I know, that's a rare request. People are usually clamoring for more content, right? I am just saying I like being able to survive past day 50, then start doing some of the stuff that isn't essential for my survival so much, but is nice, like building some of the things that are more cosmetic than necessary. As it is, I haven't built a bird cage for around 2 months now, because I either haven't lived long enough, or I am just too busy trying to survive even when I have my base up and running to think about making my base look nice.But regardless of anything else, DO keep up the great work, you are just about the best developer in the business at the minute (except MAYBE cdprojektred, who are pretty damn awesome), and I truly appreciate all the work you do, especially considering the price the game is sold for. Getting well over 100 hours out of a game I paid just £10 for (and got two copies at that) is the best value for money I have ever had in gaming that I remember.

[Daddums]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you do not like exploring new mechanics and tunings with every update then perhaps betas are not for you. Please try the game again when it is finished

Wow.. Re-starting the learning curve was only one of his concerns.

I've never seen a Dev blow off criticism with such contempt before.

How sad. You're free to view your world from an Ivory tower if you wish. It's your game.

Be advised that surrounding yourself with yes-men is not how to capture the largest market and sell more copies.

You may respond to this if you wish, but I won't see it. Your response to wobbl3r is so offensive to me that I'm deleting my account after this post.

As much as I had a rep around here for complaining, I really did love your game. One of my main concerns was the way negative (but constructive feedback) was received by your tight little group of fanbois. My hope was while it's certainly a hostile forum for anyone who would dare voice concern over something they didn't like, perhaps the Devs were still listening.

I was wrong. Clearly, you don't want to hear it.

So be it.

[taciturn]

[MENTION=1992]w0bbl3r[/MENTION] just wanted to say that I've definitely appreciated your contributions here. Thank you! ch. Our latest change absolutely requires players to relearn priorities; we're still testing our changes to see the long-term effects.I've heard a ton of your feedback and we really do hear it. If you're tired of the constant change, we totally understand, and hope you come back when the game launches!

Please keep being bold. Please keep pulling the players out of our comfort zones. It is now the time to be bold is here. So far I sunk 50 hours into this game. FIFTY HOURS! Damnit. My wife asks me "Oh, you're chopping trees again?" and I can only say to her that for me, this is Relaxation And players adapt. They always did. This weeks Impossable OMG Odds, will be trivial in 14 days. So, from an excited beta player who also get frustrated, I encourage you to do bold experiments. See where this can go, and Winter Update is perhaps the most fundamentally changing and exciting thing to happen to Don't Starve since I jumped on board at the Spoiled Rotten updaste.