warbucks is gone

[Pradiante]

Bring warbucks in back with new perks.

- Holding Lost Relics in a stack in inventory

- Lost Relics gives sanaty in inventory

- Prices of Lost Relics are better for him

- Tip pigs with coins for sanity 

- tea replenishes more sanity

- being near a tea tree replenishes sanity

- eating monster meat, beanbugs and gummy slugs causes sanity drop but provides a movement speed increse like panic attack

For a Indiana Jones tipe of character:

- can hold scorpians, spides and snakes in inventory if unarmed and relese them or kill for items (like birds)

- can understand Mant

- implemente the DST Tail o' Three Cats

- hates spiders and silk

Good luck Warbucks.

[Maxposting]

I just say that he just was bland and stupidly overpowered...

[Izuku_Midoriya]

29 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Plant boi is a lot better, warbucks was just a bland character. Klei is doing the right thing here we dont want more filler, uninteresting bland characters.

Also if I was a certain flex tape girl i'd be scared now.

There is absolutely no reason wormwood and warbucks can’t both be in.

[ucw]

5 minutes ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

There is absolutely no reason wormwood and warbucks can’t both be in.

Agreed.  Can't resist chiming in to say I find Woodworm bland and boring, but I'm certainly not going to complain to Klei to remove Woodworm just because I don't particularly want to play him.  

[YouKnowWho]

 

8 hours ago, SuperDavid said:

Well, the thing is if you don't want a character, but they're in the game you're not forced to play as them.

You can simply hate the character and pick somebody else, but if you are actively hating on Warbucks and are going all out of your way to prevent him from being added back into game then I dare you are being extremely insensitive to the feelings of all the people who want to play as Warbucks as we are the only ones being hurt by this whole removal of Warbucks.

So, not wanting Warbucks back essentially means you're purposefully trampling on other people's appreciation and love for the character which I dare say I find rather shocking.

I get you want Warbucks back, I myself don’t have much to say on the matter, but the problem with a biased poll is that it doesn’t let everybody express what they truely feel about the matter. Imagine if the choice to vote for somebody was removed because the person handling the election just personally didn’t like him. 

If you want Klei to look at this and say “Look how many people want Warbucks compared to not wanting Warbucks” you should give everyone a chance to speak their voice, even if you don’t think it’s right. 

Besides, the “you can’t demolish something because so many people love it.” is the same arguement for why the KKK exists. People not supporting something others do doesn’t make them insensitive. Warbucks is no where near the level of bad the KKK is, but you get my point. If you want this to be at all taken seriously, you have to make it fair. Let everyone tell their side of the story, even if it’s wrong.

[Izuku_Midoriya]

8 minutes ago, ucw said:

Agreed.  Can't resist chiming in to say I find Woodworm bland and boring, but I'm certainly not going to complain to Klei to remove Woodworm just because I don't particularly want to play him.  

I like the concept of wormwood a lot. I really enjoy his didgeridoo voice. His custom animations for casting out of hitpoints is awesome. However, his design feels unpolished and confusing. Photosynthesis could break the game I guess, but make him react more positively to the rain. Buff his interactions with plants. 

[Monkey Cups]

1 hour ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

Most people know about the British Raj and the age of imperialism. I don’t understand why having a morally wrong character in this game is offensive when we have a pyromaniac, a little girl who jokes about sacrificing her best friend, and a magician who casually mentions slitting throats.

To be most blunt about it, it's because he's British. Otherwise we would have people calling out Wilba on her lines too:

[. . .]

On 2/9/2019 at 10:41 AM, YouKnowWho said:

I get you want Warbucks back, I myself don’t have much to say on the matter, but the problem with a biased poll is that it doesn’t let everybody express what they truely feel about the matter. Imagine if the choice to vote for somebody was removed because the person handling the election just personally didn’t like him. 

If you want Klei to look at this and say “Look how many people want Warbucks compared to not wanting Warbucks” you should give everyone a chance to speak their voice, even if you don’t think it’s right. 

Besides, the “you can’t demolish something because so many people love it.” is the same arguement for why the KKK exists. People not supporting something others do doesn’t make them insensitive. Warbucks is no where near the level of bad the KKK is, but you get my point. If you want this to be at all taken seriously, you have to make it fair. Let everyone tell their side of the story, even if it’s wrong.

warbucks is gone

[voyager156]

1 hour ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

There is absolutely no reason wormwood and warbucks can’t both be in.

Exactly

[Roosev]

31 minutes ago, SuperDavid said:

All of this offended stuff is simply ridiculous and has no end to it

I am offended by your post, and I want it to be removed because it hurt my feelings.

...

Eye for an Eye makes the world blind.

Please don't remove characters simply because a few people don't like them.

Why remove actual playable in-game content? It's almost like people want less content...

[Mueck]

48 minutes ago, SuperDavid said:

All of this offended stuff is simply ridiculous and has no end to it, all we want is our glorious Warbucks back with no alternations to his perfectly fine character.

Please do us all a favor and read the update post a second time. Warbucks was not removed because people found his worldview and implications offensive. The single official reason given for his removal is that Klei were not satisfied with his current state and also couldn't figure out ways to make his play style more interesting.

 

Neither the tone of the discussion nor your cause benefit from conflating these two separate issues. All it does is antagonizing people who aren't even responsible for the decision.

[. . .]

On 2/9/2019 at 11:52 AM, Mueck said:

Please do us all a favor and read the update post a second time. Warbucks was not removed because people found his worldview and implications offensive. The single official reason given for his removal is that Klei were not satisfied with his current state and also couldn't figure out ways to make his play style more interesting.

 

Neither the tone of the discussion nor your cause benefit from conflating these two separate issues. All it does is antagonizing people who aren't even responsible for the decision.

warbucks is gone

 

On 2/9/2019 at 11:52 AM, Mueck said:

Neither the tone of the discussion nor your cause benefit from conflating these two separate issues. All it does is antagonizing people who aren't even responsible for the decision.

warbucks is gone

[Monkey Cups]

Just now, Mueck said:

Please do us all a favor and read the update post a second time. Warbucks was not removed because people found his worldview and implications offensive.

Sure seems to be a reason people want to keep him gone, regardless. His lines were changed at some point, so even if it's not the reason for his removal, it's still on the minds of the developers to some extent.

[ResettePlayer]

Personally, I don't really care if Warbucks is returned or not. He is basically the personification of what could be the worst era of human history, the consequences of which are felt strongly by many nations and ethnicities today, and incorporating a character like this in a nuanced way would be incredibly difficult.

Characters like Maxwell are cartoonish villains: yes, they are evil, but they were one person taking an evil path in life, not an entire centuries-long paradigm of greed. Warbucks was a caricature of British colonialism, and so he was not supposed to be taken seriously. However, you cannot stop people from reading into subtext, whether that subtext was intentional or not. 

Being able to play as an evil (or at least morally questionable) character is good fun, but when there are only two characters of colour in the entire roster (not including nonhuman characters) who never once allude to the difficulties of being minorities in the early 20th century and you have another character who establishes without a doubt that this universe is no different in the colonialism and racism aspect, well, can you blame people for reacting negatively to that? You could even point out that since the damage caused by colonialism has not healed today, joking about it like it's some piece of long-lost history, haha, weren't those genocidal Europeans so silly, is trivialising a huge issue.

Now, I definitely do not believe that Klei would write in that message intentionally. They made Warbucks a goofy caricature after all, just like the rest of the characters. The thing is that colonialism and all it entails is a touchy subject for vast amount of people, whereas evil magicians and pyromaniacs are far more specific.

You can control a character's actions only in Don't Starve. Not their words or beliefs. So when you play as Warbucks, you see through his lens of the world and how he perceives what is good and fine and what is not. None of the other characters communicates any opposing opinion on these specific points, and due to the non linear aspect of the game, incorporating a character arc where Warbucks realises that he perhaps could learn some empathy and humility would be nigh impossible. Frankly, I have no idea how a non-offensive, yet believable character of this sort could exist.

I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this. Perhaps Warbucks can return if he's balanced out with something that reflects the consequences of colonialism, because being a goofy caricature alone (as we have seen) doesn't cut it. Putting all that in would probably be more effort that it's worth. 

[YouKnowWho]

53 minutes ago, SuperDavid said:

If you don't want Warbucks back for some odd reason other than his character offending your feelings then comment saying why you don't want him, such as how extremely offensive he was to the pigsman race that the majority of Don't Starve players definitely haven't killed or massacred a village of them before and are basically used as slaves to do your work, fight your battles, and even making them kill their own kin.

You don't have to vote necessarily to get your opinion out there a comment is fine too, but know for every person who doesn't want Warbucks back several times that number of people's feelings are being disregarded and hurt in the process.

By not allowing them to vote for what they believe, you’re silencing them. Anybody who’d actually criticize Warbucks would get flamed by people saying they’re “antagonizing the supporters.” 

You shouldn’t complain about being the silent minority when you’re literally silencing people yourself.

[. . .]

23 hours ago, YouKnowWho said:

By not allowing them to vote for what they believe, you’re silencing them. Anybody who’d actually criticize Warbucks would get flamed by people saying they’re “antagonizing the supporters.” 

You shouldn’t complain about being the silent minority when you’re literally silencing people yourself.

warbucks is gone

[SkylordElberich]

1 minute ago, SuperDavid said:

Saying what you think in the form of a reply such as the fellow chap @ResettePlayer has done is a way to get your opinion out there.

Voting is for the people who want to share their general opinion, but don't feel like making a reply.

If none of the choices of the vote define how you feel about the subject then by all means go ahead and make a reply, no one is silencing anybody from giving your two cents, friend.

But, to be fair, the only option for saying why you don't want Warbucks back in the game is built on the assumption that all the anti-Warbucks crowd were offended by him, rather than not liking his perks.

[Mueck]

17 minutes ago, SuperDavid said:

This obviously's to cover up the real reason he was removed which was people getting offended over his background.

No. That's entirely your own interpretation. You're the one mixing these two issues together by designing a poll that only allows people to disagree with you based on them being offended by the character's background.

[Izuku_Midoriya]

18 minutes ago, ResettePlayer said:

Personally, I don't really care if Warbucks is returned or not. He is basically the personification of what could be the worst era of human history, the consequences of which are felt strongly by many nations and ethnicities today, and incorporating a character like this in a nuanced way would be incredibly difficult.

Characters like Maxwell are cartoonish villains: yes, they are evil, but they were one person taking an evil path in life, not an entire centuries-long paradigm of greed. Warbucks was a caricature of British colonialism, and so he was not supposed to be taken seriously. However, you cannot stop people from reading into subtext, whether that subtext was intentional or not. 

Being able to play as an evil (or at least morally questionable) character is good fun, but when there are only two characters of colour in the entire roster (not including nonhuman characters) who never once allude to the difficulties of being minorities in the early 20th century and you have another character who establishes without a doubt that this universe is no different in the colonialism and racism aspect, well, can you blame people for reacting negatively to that? You could even point out that since the damage caused by colonialism has not healed today, joking about it like it's some piece of long-lost history, haha, weren't those genocidal Europeans so silly, is trivialising a huge issue.

Now, I definitely do not believe that Klei would write in that message intentionally. They made Warbucks a goofy caricature after all, just like the rest of the characters. The thing is that colonialism and all it entails is a touchy subject for vast amount of people, whereas evil magicians and pyromaniacs are far more specific.

You can control a character's actions only in Don't Starve. Not their words or beliefs. So when you play as Warbucks, you see through his lens of the world and how he perceives what is good and fine and what is not. None of the other characters communicates any opposing opinion on these specific points, and due to the non linear aspect of the game, incorporating a character arc where Warbucks realises that he perhaps could learn some empathy and humility would be nigh impossible. Frankly, I have no idea how a non-offensive, yet believable character of this sort could exist.

I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this. Perhaps Warbucks can return if he's balanced out with something that reflects the consequences of colonialism, because being a goofy caricature alone (as we have seen) doesn't cut it. Putting all that in would probably be more effort that it's worth. 

A common strategy on the base game is farming pig villages. That’s literal colonialism and genocide dialed up to infinity. I don’t understand how the problem is only a problem when someone spells it out to you.

And in Hamlet mini-character arcs are possible because of the natural progression. Starting in the jungle, finding a town, exploring ruins, then finding the capital with the queen. Having his voice lines reflect a greater respect towards the pigmen later on could be a thing.

warly’s entire character also reflects colonialism, him being implied to be a Caribbean islander whose ancestors were brought over as slaves and then forced to learn French over several generations. It would be pretty interesting to give him lines related to that, too. But I don’t see an issue with satirizing British imperialism in a game where genocide and farming of sapient beings is not only viable, but encouraged

[. . .]

23 hours ago, SkylordElberich said:

But, to be fair, the only option for saying why you don't want Warbucks back in the game is built on the assumption that all the anti-Warbucks crowd were offended by him, rather than not liking his perks.

warbucks is gone

[ucw]

50 minutes ago, ResettePlayer said:

Personally, I don't really care if Warbucks is returned or not. He is basically the personification of what could be the worst era of human history, the consequences of which are felt strongly by many nations and ethnicities today,

Oh, I don't know about British colonialism being the worst era of human history...  The slave trade involving Africans, Spaniards, and New Americans that led up to the Civil War was a pretty nasty era "the consequences of which are felt strongly..."  Then, of course, there was Germany and it's influence of world events from about 1917 (probably earlier) to 1945...  I could review my history and go on, but it's beside the point.  

Back on topic, I'd like the cartoon character returned to the very silly video game full of science magic.  

[Rellimarual]

12 minutes ago, ucw said:

Oh, I don't know about British colonialism being the worst era of human history...  The slave trade involving Africans, Spaniards, and New Americans that led up to the Civil War was a pretty nasty era "the consequences of which are felt strongly..."  Then, of course, there was Germany and it's influence of world events from about 1917 (probably earlier) to 1945...  I could review my history and go on, but it's beside the point.  

The slave trade was part of colonialism. The whole point of enslaving people was to force them to work in colonies.

[voyager156]

1 hour ago, ResettePlayer said:

The thing is that colonialism and all it entails is a touchy subject for vast amount of people, whereas evil magicians and pyromaniacs are far more specific.

Touchy for the VAST majority? Really in the 2019? Where?

[4 Da LOLs]

12 hours ago, SuperDavid said:

So, not wanting Warbucks back essentially means you're purposefully trampling on other people's appreciation and love for the character which I dare say I find rather shocking.

I agree its like some people see there opinion as the guidelines all others MUST follow even if the thing they don't like is something they can just

avoid to which they have to move toward it to get offended its disgusting behavior and shows nothing but entitlement

just because i don't like resident evil for being gory i don't say "this amount of gore is bad change it" no i just don't play resident evil

3 hours ago, Mueck said:

Please do us all a favor and read the update post a second time. Warbucks was not removed because people found his worldview and implications offensive. The single official reason given for his removal is that Klei were not satisfied with his current state and also couldn't figure out ways to make his play style more interesting.

 

Neither the tone of the discussion nor your cause benefit from conflating these two separate issues. All it does is antagonizing people who aren't even responsible for the decision.

Yet Winona lives to get a fresh start next month for being uninteresting

there is no consistency with that logic

[ResettePlayer]

2 hours ago, ucw said:

I don't know about British colonialism being the worst era of human history

Maybe not British colonialism alone, but when looking at the broader picture, it could be. I don't know exactly, it might only seem like that in our contemporary view and future people may view it differently.

Perhaps I'm grouping too many things under "colonialism", but the Nazis invaded Poland saying they needed more "living space", which strikes me as being related. If I remember correctly, Japan was keen on taking over China at the time, and though that may not be by-the-books "colonialism", it involves abolishing one culture and replacing it with your own, so it's not terribly different.

History is not made up of entirely isolated events, and I shouldn't have phrased it as such.

3 hours ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

farming pig villages.

That's more of a player choice. Yes, so is choosing Warbucks. The only difference here is that an average player may not ever consider pig farming while most would probably give a new character they unlock a try. He's right there, in the menu. 

3 hours ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

mini-character arcs

I might have spoken too soon when I said a people-pleasing Warbucks wasn't possible. There is a small part of me that wants him to work, but overall I'm not expecting him to.

1 hour ago, voyager156 said:

Touchy for the VAST majority? Really in the 2019? Where?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply "the vast majority", but simply a fair amount of people. Not a small amount, though that may depend on where you live. I guess I should have been more specific.

 

Are we managing to see both sides here? I think I'm missing all yours. I could have sworn that people weren't this fond of Warbucks while he was playable. He was there, he was comically sunburnt, whatever. Did his deletion stir up latent passion for sunburnt old explorers within your souls?