Liquid oxygen gaining temperature inside liquid reservoir

[blash365]

I just filled a liquid reservoir with a tiny bit of liquid oxygen (~50kg @ -185C). For some reason the LOX gains temperature while inside of the reservoir.

There is no other content inside the reservoir and from what i have read the reservoir should be insulating its contents.

Can somebody explain why the LOX is heating up?

[Neotuck]

It's not a perfect insulation

if you want perfect insulation the reservoir needs to be in a vacuum and sitting on top of mesh or air flow tiles

[SakuraKoi]

12 minutes ago, blash365 said:

from what i have read the reservoir should be insulating its contents.

Not really sure where you get all your information from but all I did read always says the contrary. And even if the content of the reservoir only exchanges temperature with the reservoir itself (while still being affected by Chlorine which is common knowledge), it still exchanges temperature with something that exchanges heat with the gas outside. If you do not want it breaking, the reservoir should be in a vacuum and already cooled down (or in a room which is already cooled down).

Just now, Neotuck said:

if you want perfect insulation the reservoir needs to be in a vacuum and sitting on top of mesh or air flow tiles

IIRC during my tests buildings do not exchange heat with tiles they are built on, though it has been some much time since those tests. Also... I would not expect any insulation from metal, even if it is only raw.

[Neotuck]

They do exchange heat with the left tile or Center left tile for the gas reservoirs

Just to be safe place them on mesh tiles in a vacuum

[Kabrute]

The building isn't exchanging Temps with anything. it's contents are exchanging Temps with the tile skipping the container. To insulate do the vacuum suggestion mentioned above

[psusi]

22 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

They do exchange heat with the left tile or Center left tile for the gas reservoirs

Just to be safe place them on mesh tiles in a vacuum

You don't need mesh tiles, just a vacuum.

[Saturnus]

17 minutes ago, psusi said:

You don't need mesh tiles, just a vacuum.

No no, you need the mesh/air flow tiles unless the tile is an insulated tile made of insulator. Try with any other material and you'll quickly see it makes a big difference.

[Neotuck]

23 minutes ago, psusi said:

You don't need mesh tiles, just a vacuum.

You can't place reservoir on top of a vacuum it needs some sort of tile to stand upon

[SakuraKoi]

Just tested and I was not wrong in that buildings do not exchange heat with tiles they stand on, however...

The content sure did in its stead, with the left tile only for liquid reservoirs. I already knew that the choice of thermal exchange partners has been very odd in ONI but this takes the cake I'd say.

[Neotuck]

1 hour ago, SakuraKoi said:

Just tested and I was not wrong in that buildings do not exchange heat with tiles they stand on, however...

The content sure did in its stead, with the left tile only for liquid reservoirs. I already knew that the choice of thermal exchange partners has been very odd in ONI but this takes the cake I'd say.

Try placing it on a mesh tile

[psusi]

2 hours ago, Saturnus said:

No no, you need the mesh/air flow tiles unless the tile is an insulated tile made of insulator. Try with any other material and you'll quickly see it makes a big difference.

I've had tanks standing on tile in a vacuum for hundreds of cycles in and the tanks of hot petrol don't exchange heat with the tile they are on as long as they are in a vacuum.  This is why it is so hard to cool auto miners in space: machines don't exchange heat with the tile they stand on, only with the gas in the tile they are in.  As long as they are in a vacuum, they don't exchange heat.

2 hours ago, Neotuck said:

You can't place reservoir on top of a vacuum it needs some sort of tile to stand upon

Of course, but the contents of the resevoir only exchange heat with the mass in the tile they are in, not what is underneath.

 

[Nitroturtle]

21 minutes ago, psusi said:

I've had tanks standing on tile in a vacuum for hundreds of cycles in and the tanks of hot petrol don't exchange heat with the tile they are on as long as they are in a vacuum.  This is why it is so hard to cool auto miners in space: machines don't exchange heat with the tile they stand on, only with the gas in the tile they are in.  As long as they are in a vacuum, they don't exchange heat.

Of course, but the contents of the resevoir only exchange heat with the mass in the tile they are in, not what is underneath.

 

What @Saturnus and @Neotuck posted above is accurate.  It took me about five minutes to prove this in debug (not that I doubted, as I've observed similar behavoir).  Both reservoirs are filled with 750C petroleum and in a vacuum.  Surrounding tiles are granite, and the box on the left started heating almost immediately as I started filling the reservoir.

 

Here's one cycle later:

Heat is obviously originating in the tile to the bottom left of the reservoir, as it's temp is the highest.  The petro in that reservoir is also cooling compared to the other, since it's heat is being transferred into the granite tiles.

[Neotuck]

19 minutes ago, psusi said:

I've had tanks standing on tile in a vacuum for hundreds of cycles in and the tanks of hot petrol don't exchange heat with the tile they are on as long as they are in a vacuum.  This is why it is so hard to cool auto miners in space: machines don't exchange heat with the tile they stand on, only with the gas in the tile they are in.  As long as they are in a vacuum, they don't exchange heat.

Of course, but the contents of the resevoir only exchange heat with the mass in the tile they are in, not what is underneath.

 

Explain this:

First 2 pics reservoir is empty

Second 2 pics reservoir is half full

Third 2 pics reservoir is full

The temp of the tiles under the reservoir is dropping while the reservoir itself remains the same

PLEASE NOTE: no one said the building it'self is transferring heat in a vacuum like you said @psusi it's the contents that is transferring heat

If you still think we are wrong then please provide some pictures 

[silverfang11793]

5 hours ago, Neotuck said:

They do exchange heat with the left tile or Center left tile for the gas reservoirs

Just to be safe place them on mesh tiles in a vacuum

It is definitely the left tile.

 

And make sure the surrounding of the tank is all dry. When tank is partially submerged in any kind of liquid and it has something inside of it the liquid outside the tank will exchange heat with the fluid/gas inside the tank.

[Neotuck]

19 minutes ago, silverfang11793 said:

And make sure the surrounding of the tank is all dry. When tank is partially submerged in any kind of liquid and it has something inside of it the liquid outside the tank will exchange heat with the fluid/gas inside the tank.

If there is liquid outside the tank then it's not a vacuum 

[SakuraKoi]

5 hours ago, Neotuck said:

Try placing it on a mesh tile

I'm afraid my mind will break.

[Saturnus]

Btw, for gas tanks it's the center tile in case you're wondering.

[Neotuck]

8 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Btw, for gas tanks it's the center tile in case you're wondering.

I'm away from my computer so I can't check, are gas tanks 4 tiles wide or 5?

[Saturnus]

Just now, Neotuck said:

I'm away from my computer so I can't check, are gas tanks 4 tiles wide or 5?

5

[fishpear]

Why not try placing the liquid reservoir inside your liquid oxygen factory?

[Nitroturtle]

So looking at the screenshots above, I also realized that the pumps themselves have a hot tile under them to the left.  Now, I'm assuming this is their contents (750C Petro) transferring with those tiles.  But this makes me wonder, is this a bug or working as intended?  Why would the petro contents transfer heat more readily with the tile than the actual petro outside the pump that's sitting directly on the tiles?  The tiles are also insulated mafic rock, which I believe is the lowest conductivity naturally occuring material, yet they are obviously transferring heat quite fast with the contents of the pump.  Can anyone explain why this happens?

[Coolthulhu]

1 hour ago, Nitroturtle said:

Why would the petro contents transfer heat more readily with the tile than the actual petro outside the pump that's sitting directly on the tiles?

Solid, liquid and gas interaction have totally different heat transfer rates.

If you encase a volcano in insulated tiles, you'll notice that the tiles in direct contact with magma will be much cooler than tiles only in contact with CO2 above the magma. At the same time, aquatuners can very quickly overheat in steam despite having worked completely fine in water just a moment ago.

Data mined stats show that gases have some hidden adjustment on heat transfer rates, but it's just a constant multiplier. It surely doesn't explain why would solid-gas and solid-liquid sometimes favor one and sometimes the other.

Someone could do !!science!! on how does heat transfer between tiles of different phases work. Same for buildings.

[Nitroturtle]

Yeah I get all that, but in this case I'm talking about comparing the following:

Petroleum in the pump transferring heat to the insulated tiles

Petroleum directly on insulated tiles transferring heat to the insulated tiles

In both cases we're talking transfer from petroleum to insulated tiles, why are they different?

[SackMaggie]

So after this wall of text.

1. Reservoir doesn't transfer heat but the content do and it transfer at bottom left for liquid and center for gas.

2. Content inside reservoir will not transfer heat if it sit on mesh/air flow tiles or bottom tiles need to be insulator and need to be in vacuum too.

Correct ?

[Neotuck]

3 minutes ago, SackMaggie said:

So after this wall of text.

1. Reservoir doesn't transfer heat but the content do and it transfer at bottom left for liquid and center for gas.

2. Content inside reservoir will not transfer heat if it sit on mesh/air flow tiles or bottom tiles need to be insulator and need to be in vacuum too.

Correct ?

bingo!