Water/Gas tank, capacity more space efficient than retention rooms?

[eggsvbacon]

Weird question,

Are they more efficient space wise in comparison to retention rooms/ponds that you can make? As in, tile space taken to build versus open tank rentention ponds/rooms. Thoughts?

Pros and cons? Thanks

[Kerd]

No, but you can do both in the same space increasing the capacity of the retention room.

[beowulf2010]

As an added bonus you can place them in your current plumbing systems with minimal effort making small retention ponds anywhere you need without needing additional pumps. 

[PhailRaptor]

There are 2 really great uses for the Reservoir structures:

-> Installing buffer space on a pipe without having to play around with pipe spaghetti

-> Exposing the contents of the Reservoir to temperature or Chlorine for, as an example, decontamination

For storage purposes, however, they are pretty underwhelming.

[Mike072428]

3 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

There are 2 really great uses for the Reservoir structures:

-> Installing buffer space on a pipe without having to play around with pipe spaghetti

-> Exposing the contents of the Reservoir to temperature or Chlorine for, as an example, decontamination

For storage purposes, however, they are pretty underwhelming.

I thought that the devs made it so that the contents of a tank don't thermically interact with its surroundings.

[PhailRaptor]

11 minutes ago, Mike072428 said:

I thought that the devs made it so that the contents of a tank don't thermically interact with its surroundings.

As far as I know the only change was preventing P-H2O from off-gasing at a very high rate into P-O2.  Thermal interaction would be slower, since the contained fluids can only interact with the container.  But they are made from Raw Metals, so the only real bottleneck on that would be the mass of the container relative to the mass of the contained fluids.

[KittenIsAGeek]

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

As far as I know the only change was preventing P-H2O from off-gasing at a very high rate into P-O2.  Thermal interaction would be slower, since the contained fluids can only interact with the container.  But they are made from Raw Metals, so the only real bottleneck on that would be the mass of the container relative to the mass of the contained fluids.

They are intended to be insulated, so that the contents are thermally isolated -- at least, according to the rocketry reveal video.  I haven't actually tested it yet, but its on my list of things to do.

[this.cris]

2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

according to the rocketry reveal video

I have been looking for that one.

It is not linked to ingame. It is not on their youtube channel. Where is it?

[Mike072428]

 

2 hours ago, this.cris said:

I have been looking for that one.

It is not linked to ingame. It is not on their youtube channel. Where is it?

 

Test update 283915 

• Reservoirs are now sealed so that their contents no longer interact with their surroundings.

I've had some tanks filled with water whose temperature hasn't budged an inch since that update but they are in a carbon dioxide atmosphere so i would recommend you making a debug mode build and test it out.

[SkunkMaster]

You could pump magma into the tanks, and leave the tanks next to your dupes beds, without problems. 

 

I use them to store anything i heat up over the 125c marker, because i can't re-pump it after that.

 

Spoiler

Hydrogen is heated to 165c in this setup, to warm for regular storage.

 

[Craigjw]

I tested out the retention of the liquid reservoir last night as it turns out.  

At full capacity the liquid tank holds 5T, which is 5 tiles worth of liquid, I emptied the contents into a pit, to make sure that is correct.

[SamLogan]

15 hours ago, eggsvbacon said:

Pros and cons? Thanks

Pros :

- You can double the capacity of your pool given on a square of 6 tiles you have : 6 tiles of liquid + 5 tons of liquid in the cuve.

- You can can storage and deliver really hot liquid like petroleum without cool it. Personnaly, I boil a lot a of crude oil to 400°C then I pup it to my cuves that are full insulated when in a vacuum. As well, I can deliver hot petroleum without a pump when It's needed for my rocket.

- You can can sterilize contamined water with only 100g of chlorine in 20-30 secondes (5 millions germs).

 

Cons :

- Overheated at low-medium temperature : 75-125°C.

 

[KittenIsAGeek]

1 hour ago, SkunkMaster said:

I use them to store anything i heat up over the 125c marker, because i can't re-pump it after that.

Yeah, I've been thinking about doing some heat pumping using them. 

2 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

Cons :

- Overheated at low-medium temperature : 75-125°C.

Only their exteriors have that problem.  Their internal temp can get MUCH higher.

[simonchvz]

27 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

Pros :

- You can double the capacity of your pool given on a square of 6 tiles you have : 6 tiles of liquid + 5 tons of liquid in the cuve.

- You can can storage and deliver really hot liquid like petroleum without cool it. Personnaly, I boil a lot a of crude oil to 400°C then I pup it to my cuves that are full insulated when in a vacuum. As well, I can deliver hot petroleum without a pump when It's needed for my rocket.

- You can can sterilize contamined water with only 100g of chlorine in 20-30 secondes (5 millions germs).

 

Cons :

- Overheated at low-medium temperature : 75-125°C.

 

I've also been using them for instant temperature smoothing.  For instance, have I have four inputs running to a central cooler AT and each comes back having heated different amounts.  Mixing them in a tank first gives a steady output that makes it easier to avoid freezing the medium.

[KittenIsAGeek]

9 minutes ago, simonchvz said:

I've also been using them for instant temperature smoothing.  For instance, have I have four inputs running to a central cooler AT and each comes back having heated different amounts.  Mixing them in a tank first gives a steady output that makes it easier to avoid freezing the medium.

So, rather than dump into a pool, then pump back out, we use the reservoir.  That makes perfect sense.  I don't know why I haven't done that yet.

[AndreyKl]

16 hours ago, eggsvbacon said:

Are they more efficient space wise in comparison to retention rooms/ponds that you can make? As in, tile space taken to build versus open tank rentention ponds/rooms.

Depends.

1. Liquids

In case of Water Tank, it holds 5t and takes 6 tiles (8 with floor).  If it is a tile-tank in the open we are talking about at least 7 surrounding tiles (8 if we want for pump to reach bottom) and 5 tiles inside= at least 12 tiles, likely more and you won't be able to fit another 5t reservoir inside simultaneously with pump. However if you need more capacity then 5t, you will need multiple tanks, that also requires adding move floors. Lets say we need 100t tank, It is 20x5t reservoirs = 20x8 tiles = 160 tiles. Tile-tank will require 20 wall tiles and 10 bottom tiles plus 100 capacity tiles = 130 tiles. Definitely less tiles and you cam add various equipment be that more 5t tanks or cooling.

For oil normal tile capacity is 800Kg, so difference will be even more pronounced, but big tile-tanks will still win over chaining reservoirs and reservoirs will win oven any 5t tile-tank space wise.

2. Gasses

Here tile-tanks technically have bigger capacity due to limiteless max pressure (in case of door-pump), so even small tank can hold unlimited amount of gas. The problem is that smallest tile-tank will take 6+6 tiles for doors (at least) plus 4+6 tiles for actual tank (since it needs to hold gas pump) and likely 2+4 tiles for vent before doors. So, overall 28 tiles. A bit big isn't it?

In case of 20Kg/per tile limit vents, you can get roughly 120Kg of gas in 4x5 space (sorry don't remember dimentions of the gas tank, I assume it is 3x5), so gas tank technically is more space efficient with its 150Kg capacity for smaller builds and with bigger rooms you are better of doing either door pump or combining tile-tanks with gas tanks.

P.S. It is much better to freeze some gasses to liquid or solid state for storage.

[RonEmpire]

These containers ACTUALLY are useful and should be used in addition to the rooms/pools you build to contain the water and gas because they will hold MORE than just the room/pool alone.

Since they stack with the space they're stored in.    For example, a tiny room of 3 x 5 can have a cap on 25kg per tile of a gas.  Putting in the gas tank into this room, gives you an additional 150kg of storage,  thus an additional 10kg per tile.

(I believe the gas tank is 3 tiles high and 5 tiles wide- thus 10kg per tile of the gas tank itself)

[jfc]

4 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

These containers ACTUALLY are useful and should be used in addition to the rooms/pools you build to contain the water and gas because they will hold MORE than just the room/pool alone.

Since they stack with the space they're stored in.    For example, a tiny room of 3 x 5 can have a cap on 25kg per tile of a gas.  Putting in the gas tank into this room, gives you an additional 150kg of storage,  thus an additional 10kg per tile.

(I believe the gas tank is 3 tiles high and 5 tiles wide- thus 10kg per tile of the gas tank itself)

Exactly, you can have a room full of gas and you can also put a gas reservoir to hold even more gas on it

[beowulf2010]

4 hours ago, jfc said:

Exactly, you can have a room full of gas and you can also put a gas reservoir to hold even more gas on it

Yep. I've been building my liquid tanks and gas geyser enclosures to hold extra piped reservoirs on either the input (liquid tanks) or output (gas geysers) piping to increase the storage aspects of these areas. It's been an immense help in reducing both pump run times and the actual numbers of pumps. 

[TLW]

I just wish they were sooner in the tech tree.

By the time I get there I've already done most of my main plumbing, and they don't have enough advantages over traditional methods to be worth ripping everything out and replacing it. There are a few niche applications but that's about it.

(I'm just waiting for the next 'tock' of the Klei nerfbat.)

They removed the major interesting part (PO2 emission). It would have made for some interesting builds.

Disinfecting is interesting, but given they are keeping the fixed-temp-output of sieves, I've already got my PH2O cooling system going by the time I'm ready to build tanks, and so I'm heating up the PH2O to temperatures that kill germs quickly anyway. I could replace the loopback pipe with a tank... but there's virtually nothing to be gained by doing so other than the setup cost (that I already had to do).

As for storing more per tile... you can just use door pumps / etc. Even without compression, ONI is nowhere near space-constrained. It takes substantially less time for me to dig a little more than to set up tanks + additional plumbing. And meanwhile I'm not having to refine / etc the materials to make it.

Lower power consumption is interesting... except that I have tank inputs priority-connected to outputs anyway, so it doesn't gain me much most of the time. It's nice for mid-term buffers.. except that most of the time the only thing that requires that sort of buffering is geysers, which are going straight to central storage.

Temperature averaging is interesting, I must admit. Or would be except that I've already set up stuff before I get there. (Common theme...)

Storing extremely hot liquids without temperature change is about the most likely use I'd put it to... except that it's most likely unintended behavior. And given you can do this without tanks.

[eggsvbacon]

On 9/13/2018 at 2:22 AM, PhailRaptor said:

There are 2 really great uses for the Reservoir structures:

-> Installing buffer space on a pipe without having to play around with pipe spaghetti

-> Exposing the contents of the Reservoir to temperature or Chlorine for, as an example, decontamination

For storage purposes, however, they are pretty underwhelming.

How does one expose the contents of the reservoir to chlorine? Like liquid? Or what?

Thanks everyone for your contributions, I didn't expect this level of response.

[PhailRaptor]

5 hours ago, eggsvbacon said:

How does one expose the contents of the reservoir to chlorine? Like liquid? Or what?

Just surround the Reservoir with the gas.  The disinfecting properties of Chlorine will take effect on the fluid stored inside the Reservoir.

[tzionut]

I tested yesterday to see what can be used. In vacuum they can store magma or melted glass...looped whit a refinery... and whit radiant pipes submerged in magma you can transfer heat to the magma...but the output is little and you will need to melt a lots of raw metals to compensate the heat loss for melting regolith.  

Is more efficient whit the aquatuner submerged in magma...

[yoakenashi]

Another great thing the gas tank does (I assume liquid is the same) is that it combines packets. And then outputs the gassed in repeating order until there isn’t any left. This is better than a gas sorting and combining system build from bridges and shutoff valves.