Please do something about water sieve and electrolyzer

[blash365]

You dont need a spreadsheet to figure out that using a limited resource is not a sustainable way on the long run.

Nobody questioned whether cooling your base with ice was working or not, nor did i question whether it wouldnt work in 100 cycles. All i said is that it is not sustainable. And a smart colony strifes for sustainability. Otherwise it would be a dead colony eventually.

[martosss]

"It works" .. I hope so ... "whatever that means"

6 minutes ago, thewreckedangle said:

 a "fully grown colony" (whatever that means) with whatever number of dupes.

It's obvious that you can't have whatever number of dupes and be self sustainable forever. The simplest reason is, as the game name suggests, the amount of O2 that your crowd will need. As soon as you start wasting 1/2 of your water you're limiting your oxygen production to 1/2 of what it could be. And yes, I consider it a waste if you start with 500kg of water and end up with 250 after some time without gaining anything mass/energy-wise. It's the same if you let a  hydrogen generator run even though your batteries are full - you can say you're using it, but you're wasting the hydrogen.

[thewreckedangle]

why are you all about "sustain forever"? since when is that and end goal? i doubt many people have "sustainable" bases, purely for the fact that new versions and/or fixes come out so often, many people restart or simply don't have hundreds of hours to put into any one colony.
To me, a base that will run forever with no/little dupe interaction, is hella boring. why would i want that? i don't. these dupes are here to do the work. why automate everything? so what if they could "live forever". what life is it if everything is done for them and always always the same? to me, that is not even a game. if thats how YOU play, then good for you. but many of us do not, and people on the forums are very .. aggressive about "long term sustainability" .. when as it is, there is no long term. there is no right or wrong way to play this game or a "best" or "worst" way to play it. as long as it works for your needs, then it works.

[trukogre]

1 hour ago, blash365 said:

You dont need a spreadsheet to figure out that using a limited resource is not a sustainable way on the long run.

Nobody questioned whether cooling your base with ice was working or not, nor did i question whether it wouldnt work in 100 cycles. All i said is that it is not sustainable. And a smart colony strifes for sustainability. Otherwise it would be a dead colony eventually.

A smart player doesn't want their colony to be smart because AI leads to skynet, and skynet lowers morale.

[Alex_D]

It appears to me that although the Water Sieve does output water at 40 oC, the device itself will heat up pretty much to whatever input temperature the polluted water comes in. I just looked at the thermal view and the WS is by far the hottest building in the room.

[blash365]

1 hour ago, Alex_D said:

It appears to me that although the Water Sieve does output water at 40 oC, the device itself will heat up pretty much to whatever input temperature the polluted water comes in. I just looked at the thermal view and the WS is by far the hottest building in the room.

If the same thing that @Sevio explained about the metal refinery applies here, then the contents of the sieve should not interact with the sieve itself, but with the floortile below the sieve. In other words: if you put abysalite under the sieve, it shouldnt be heated by its contents.

[Lilalaunekuh]

2 hours ago, Alex_D said:

It appears to me that although the Water Sieve does output water at 40 oC, the device itself will heat up pretty much to whatever input temperature the polluted water comes in. I just looked at the thermal view and the WS is by far the hottest building in the room.

Just build some conductive pipes over the water sieve and use the output to cool itself.

[Sevio]

@blash365 @Alex_D If you want to avoid all heat transfer from hot polluted water to the room your water sieve is in, you have a few options.

You can either put the water sieve in vacuum, put an abyssalite tile below the 2nd tile from the left and add a liquid on another tile to cool the sieve's waste heat.

Or you can use a liquid shutoff and automation to prevent polluted water from sitting in the water sieve by shutting down the flow if the clean water pipe backs up. You might have to make a small overflow loop to stick the backup sensor on if you want maximum uptime.

The last option which I use in my Singularity Mk3 build is to put the water sieve (made of gold amalgam) inside the insulated room that heats up the polluted water going into the sieve. It can be serviced with an auto sweeper using either a loader and receptacle in the same room, or the corner sweeper trick where an auto sweeper can get line of sight straight through an open corner of the room.

[Yucie]

It's remarkable the hesitation to the idea that the game can be played in different ways outside of the 'meta'.

I too don't bother with perfect SPOM's or have even created a water sieve before. Will it be sustainable for 2000+ cycles as opposed to the 500 cycles I play to? Probably not. However, I find there's little else to do LONG before the colony reaches critical failure. Does that make me a terrible player as well because I don't conform to the expectations imposed by the player and not the game itself?

Until the game motivates the player to min/max in order to achieve the end-game objective, all expectations and goals are set by the player and obviously people have very different play styles and ideas on how to overcome them. Keep that in mind before you scrutinize them for it.

[blash365]

1 hour ago, Yucie said:

It's remarkable the hesitation to the idea that the game can be played in different ways outside of the 'meta'.

You still dont get the point.

The problem is that there is no playstyle for those who want sustainability yet. If you want to cool a geyser, you either have to burn through your ice biomes or you have to use fix output temperatures.

Wheeze worts and AETN are having a hard time to keep up with geysers. Hydrofans dont seem scaleable. Space jettison is an option worth mentioning, but requires alot of resources to send to space.

I really dont mind you using your ice or other people using their sieve to keep their base as they want them to. The problem is, that there is no way around those options.

1 hour ago, Yucie said:

obviously people have very different play styles and ideas on how to overcome them. Keep that in mind before you scrutinize them for it.

You are basically scrutinizing us for asking to have our own style.

[KittenIsAGeek]

16 hours ago, blash365 said:

BS! AETN and WW are designed to be heat sinks. Their entire purpose in the game is to eat up heat. They might also have a decor bonus and the ability to consume hydrogen, but mostly they remove heat. When klei was creating a concept for these two elements of the game, the headline on their flipboard was heat deletion.They are limited and force the player to think on where to utilize them.

A sieve was most likely not designed to be a cooling (or heating) building. Its main purpose is to convert polluted to clean water. It also generates a certain amount of heat as all/most power consuming buildings do.

I never claimed that the WW and AETN were designed that way, I claimed that their physics was hinky.  So it appears that your complaint, then, is that someone found a way to use something in a way that it was not primarily designed for.  I hate to break it to you, but this happens ALL the time.  I have a workbench I made from a door, for example.  Clearly I'm not using the door in the manner it was designed.  But, lets forget that topic for now and instead focus on another issue:

Converting polluted water to pure water while maintaining temperature results in heat loss!

OK, so, here's the deal -- Polluted water has a specific heat capacity of 6.0 J/g/C.  Water, meanwhile, is 4.179.  So, at 20c, 5kg of polluted water contains 600KJ of heat energy while pure water only contains 417.9KJ.  This is a loss of 182kJ of heat per 5kg packet of water that is purified -- if the output temperature equals the input.  Therefore, having the purifier output at the same temperature results in the destruction of heat simply because of the change in materials.  

Perhaps, then, you want the heat energy to be maintained.  That way the building can NEVER be used to cool your base.  OK, so, lets say we purify 5kg of polluted water that is 20c in temperature and therefore contains 600kJ of heat energy.  If we apply that to the 5kg of pure water we'll get out of the sieve, that means we need to raise the temperature to 28.7c.  Water from the slime zone, at 28c already, will be purified to 40.2c.  If your PW is already hot, say, 75c, then putting it through the sieve would vaporize it into steam at 107c.  That's going to cause a problem.  We'll need to put some notes in the database to say "No liquids over 70c or your pipes will burst."  And that's simply from changing phase while conserving thermal energy. 

That's going to require some major coding changes to the physics engine, since as far as I can tell, NO phase changes in ONI conserve thermal energy.  Boil oil into petroleum or petroleum into natural gas? Doesn't conserve thermal energy.  Melting ice into water? Again, the thermal energy is not conserved.  In ONI physics, a phase change maintains the temperature of the material, but not its overall thermal energy.  What does that mean?

You can boil water to destroy heat.

That's right!  You can boil polluted water into steam to remove heat from your base.  It works surprisingly well, is easy to set up, and I've used it in a couple of bases.  So, my question is:

What is your real complaint? Is it that someone is using a building in a way that you believe it wasn't intended to be used? Or is it that changing a material to another with a lower specific heat capacity results in a loss of thermal energy?  If its the first, then you better stop using doors to pump gasses.  Clearly you shouldn't use piping mechanics or valves to sort gasses/liquids since there's a building that does that.  Oh, and don't use liquids for air-locks either, since Transit Tubes allow you to move into a sealed environment.  In fact, you shouldn't use conveyors to move heat around, either, since clearly they were designed to move objects and not heat.  But, hey.. its your sandbox.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

You guys should really calm down. 

Not everybody bothers with max efficiency. Using ice to cool your base is a very valid way to do so. Is is it sustainable? Not over several 1000's of cycles, but let's be honest: how many people reach that point. I never ever got to a 1000+ cycle base myself because there was always a reason, mostly updates that made my base irrelevant. When the game is completed and there is an endgoal in place, it'll not be realistic that you run out of ice.

Is it logical that water sieves delete heat? No, because they should primarily be a water filtering device. Admittingly I myself abuse the crap out of it by sheer convenience. Then again, it's the only "low tech, low power solution" that can handle water cooling at that mass flow rate. Is this intended by game developers? Maybe, maybe not but in my opinion it points at an incomplete game mechanic. No matter how hard some members will try to sell the sieve as a fine and working solution, it isn't but it also points at lack of options. We have good options, relatively, to cool gasses. Liquids are quite an issue. Ice is a very good option however and I'd wish there were some devices put in place that supported ice cooling.

[nvzboy]

6 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Perhaps, then, you want the heat energy to be maintained.  That way the building can NEVER be used to cool your base.  OK, so, lets say we purify 5kg of polluted water that is 20c in temperature and therefore contains 600kJ of heat energy.  If we apply that to the 5kg of pure water we'll get out of the sieve, that means we need to raise the temperature to 28.7c.  Water from the slime zone, at 28c already, will be purified to 40.2c.  If your PW is already hot, say, 75c, then putting it through the sieve would vaporize it into steam at 107c.  That's going to cause a problem.  We'll need to put some notes in the database to say "No liquids over 70c or your pipes will burst."  And that's simply from changing phase while conserving thermal energy. 

 

 

The metal refinery also can burst pipes if you feed it a coolant that is too close to boiling point yet doesn't have such database warnings. And in that case the pipe bursts, causing hot steam escaping and the metal refinery to be unable to get rid of the hot coolant, ceasing production. This would actually be an OK mechanic if applied to the water sieve because even if it can be used to make steam, it isn't practical with the constant repairing of a bursting pipe needed. So what you wrote up there is how I would imagine a water sieve to work. That database entry or preventing the buliding from working when the input is too hot isn't needed, there are mechanics in place that will cause failure if you do so allready.

[blash365]

8 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I have a workbench I made from a door, for example.  Clearly I'm not using the door in the manner it was designed. 

So you are using a piece of wood as a tabletop? You inventor, you.

Quote

You can boil water to destroy heat.

Yes you can. And while it is quirky as well, it is hard to set-up and still something related to the input. Its kind of obvious but the output temperature of a phase change is indeed the input temperature. If you boil pw at 119°C, you will get steam at 119°C. The heat loss is merely because of the heat capacity of the element. You are not suddenly gaining 40°C water. And you most certainly dont get it for 120W at the second tech level.

 

You listed a few examples of using side-effects or biproducts of concepts in ONI for a different purpose than the original device is intended for. These are all valid angles of creativity. A conveyor can move heat? Believe it or not, that's what usually happens when you move solid objects. Liquid blocks a gas? Pretty sure that's something we can observe in our daily life as well. Doors move gases? Obviously a compromise to allow the to seal gases, while still allowing 2 tiles of gas on their footprint while in open state. Its also one of the few ways (if not the only one) to move hot gases at the moment. If we had a better way, people would not use them.

 

These cases are a bit odd, but they still have their place within the physics of ONI. Some magic building, that cools/heats its input to a constant temperature with a constant energy input does not. Especially when you look at the buildings that are clearly designed to modify the temperature of liquid/gas: 480W resp. 1200W per 14°C. Oh and they also dont produce drinking water, they are on tier 4/5 of the tech tree, require a multiple of construction material and generate more heat output. Quite a difference. But hey, you are the genius with a door as a tabletop, so how can i argue with you. #Lifehack

[KittenIsAGeek]

2 hours ago, blash365 said:

So you are using a piece of wood as a tabletop? You inventor, you.

Yes you can. And while it is quirky as well, it is hard to set-up and still something related to the input. Its kind of obvious but the output temperature of a phase change is indeed the input temperature. If you boil pw at 119°C, you will get steam at 119°C. The heat loss is merely because of the heat capacity of the element. You are not suddenly gaining 40°C water. And you most certainly dont get it for 120W at the second tech level.

 

You listed a few examples of using side-effects or biproducts of concepts in ONI for a different purpose than the original device is intended for. These are all valid angles of creativity. A conveyor can move heat? Believe it or not, that's what usually happens when you move solid objects. Liquid blocks a gas? Pretty sure that's something we can observe in our daily life as well. Doors move gases? Obviously a compromise to allow the to seal gases, while still allowing 2 tiles of gas on their footprint while in open state. Its also one of the few ways (if not the only one) to move hot gases at the moment. If we had a better way, people would not use them.

 

These cases are a bit odd, but they still have their place within the physics of ONI. Some magic building, that cools/heats its input to a constant temperature with a constant energy input does not. Especially when you look at the buildings that are clearly designed to modify the temperature of liquid/gas: 480W resp. 1200W per 14°C. Oh and they also dont produce drinking water, they are on tier 4/5 of the tech tree, require a multiple of construction material and generate more heat output. Quite a difference. But hey, you are the genius with a door as a tabletop, so how can i argue with you. #Lifehack

Yes, boiling water is a phase change that reduces heat energy from the system because of the loss of heat capacity.  That exact same mechanic will happen in the sieve if it outputs at the input temperature, meaning that the building can STILL be used to reduce the temperature of your base -- even without the fixed output temperature.

I still don't understand why using one building in a way other than intended is "creative" while using another building, one that the developers have stated is working as intended, is consider an exploit.   If you want to only remove heat by using wheezewarts and AETNs, that's fine. I've done that.  Its difficult, doesn't scale well once you run out of wheezies, and you'll have to keep some of your geysers walled off, but it can be done.  However, that doesn't mean that the water sieve is broken and needs to be fixed.  The developers have stated that it is working as intended and I agree with their assessment.   

Your explanation for using doors to move gasses is exactly why the sieve isn't broken.  We have a number of buildings that we can build that will move heat around, but none that can get rid of that heat.  This means we have to get creative with buildings that we CAN build.  The buildings you mentioned, that require huge amounts of power, are heat pumps. They MOVE heat energy out of a material and into something else.  So your reasoning would be correct if you were talking about how people "shouldn't use conveyors to move heat since they don't use power."  But it isn't a good comparison for the sieve because there aren't any buildings to remove heat -- other than the AETN which is pre-built, can't be moved, and costs virtually nothing to run -- you're operating it with a small amount of a waste product. 

Another real-world example of an item being used outside of its design intent is the inductor.  Cell phone chargers work by exploiting the electro-magnetic feedback of an electric pulse through an inductor.  Prior to about ten years ago the concept was pretty much foreign because it was utilizing a component outside of its specifications -- in fact, it is using the component exactly opposite of its design intent.  One of the things I do as an engineer is to see how something can be used either in a different way or to do something else.  This is important because if I design something, its pretty much guaranteed that someone, somewhere, will use it contrary to how it was designed.  I have to test to see "if they use it this way, will it hurt them?"  Do I need to change my design to keep people safe?

So, here's the question: How would YOU fix the sieve?  Clearly your problem is that people can use it to cool their base and that's not OK for you.  If they don't re-work their physics engine, then outputting at the input temperature would mean that you could still use it to cool your base (heck, it would make my life easier, since half the time I have to cool its output anyway).  If you have it maintain thermal energy across the transfer, then you're going to have to redesign the physics engine AND you're going to have a LOT of new players wondering why their sieve keeps breaking when they're pumping water that is only 70c.  What's your solution to the problem?

[blash365]

10 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

That exact same mechanic will happen in the sieve if it outputs at the input temperature.

No. I am ok with that.

10 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

The developers have stated that it is working as intended and I agree with their assessment. 

Source please.

[KittenIsAGeek]

As I posted above: If the output temperature of the water sieve is the same as the input temperature, you WILL lose thermal energy.  At 20c, its about 200kJ per 5kg packet.  I did the math a couple of posts higher up.

[blash365]

I understood that part. You, however, fail to understand mine. It doesnt really help in this discussion.

[heckubis]

wowno wheeze warts at all produces o2 at near temperature of the water im running to it not really hard if your not min maxing

[blash365]

5 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

So, here's the question: How would YOU fix the sieve?  Clearly your problem is that people can use it to cool their base and that's not OK for you.  If they don't re-work their physics engine, then outputting at the input temperature would mean that you could still use it to cool your base (heck, it would make my life easier, since half the time I have to cool its output anyway).  If you have it maintain thermal energy across the transfer, then you're going to have to redesign the physics engine AND you're going to have a LOT of new players wondering why their sieve keeps breaking when they're pumping water that is only 70c.  What's your solution to the problem?

As already said. Either output temperature = input temperature (and if you must, address the heat capacity part. But i am fine with that bit). Or - better - keep the current temperatures but scale the energy usage accordingly.

Easy solution. Doesnt hurt current builds (apart from maybe being less energy positive). Easy to balance in relation to other cooling/heat moving/heat destroying stuff. Everybody is happy.

Or do we need another example of a door being used as a surfing board or maybe a sunscreen?

[KittenIsAGeek]

Just now, blash365 said:

I understood that part. You, however, fail to understand mine. It doesnt really help in this discussion.

OK, so, I said: "The exact same mechanic will happen if the sieve outputs at the input temperature" in response to your argument that agreed with me about boiling water losing thermal energy... and you reply, "No?"  Yeah, I'm a bit confused and I fail to understand.  Please, elaborate on your "no" so that I can understand.

[blash365]

1 minute ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Please, elaborate on your "no" so that I can understand.

Point taken. I thought you were still trying to explain the magic of our current water sieve. I'll change my "No." into an "I am ok with that.".

[Andz]

On 28.7.2018 at 3:15 AM, KittenIsAGeek said:

[...]

Oh boy. Let me go through this step by step.

Quote

.  I'll skip to the TL;DR part: Reverse osmosis efficiency has a relationship with temperature.  There's a point where the temperature is high enough to be efficient and low enough to not melt the internal membrane. 

Yes. So what? We don't know what kind of mechanism they intended to replicate (if any). Considering the fact they don't even have Television probably a really simple one. Probably more something like this instead of reverse osmosis: http://www.enlight-inc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/1891s_rev1.jpg

But this is pure speculation. So I really don't see any relevance for explaining reverse osmosis here, it might be the foundation of what's in the game, it might be not. To me personally it would not make sense, because how would they be able to build hi-tech polymer membranes before they can build a plastic ladder. And then why would it be 40°C precisely? Why not 41°C or 45°C, because most membranes are rated up to 45°C. It is not more efficient at higher temperatures, it is faster. Meaning that the higher the feding temp the higher the output salinity, which is undesireable.

Quote

There's some future Dupe science inside that sieve that raises (or lowers) the temperature of the water to its most efficient point.

If it is so super advanced tech, why didn't they build a control in there that lets me choose to not kill all plants in my base by temperature created by my own "advanced sience" temperatures. Or why can't that advanced science cool down the water after it has been heated? Basically: Why? It's magic we don't understand. Is exactly what is wrong with the water sieve. Well sure, there are some physical inconsistencies and thermodynamic violations in this game. But there is nothing else of the same magnitude that is hidden from plain sight. The water sieve has a function: clean water. When I build it I want it to do the following: clean water. What does it do? It cleans water. So all fine and good here. But the side effect has more impact on the gameplay than it's main usage. That is why so many people are complaining about it. That is that tingeling sense of unease that lets your neck hair stand up. That is the point you can not follow. That is reason why there are no 5 pages long posts "get rid of the AETN, it is an exploit". Because the AETN has a function and it does what it is supposed to. The AETN is designed to be extraterrestrial tech from the start. Imagine you would take a mundane copper floor lamp and try to explain to people that if it would come into contact with a dupe hers/his intelligence will increase while consuming the floor lamp... Nobody will like it because nobody would expect that kind of behaviour from a lamp. The thing exactly here is: It is a simple glass bottle filled with sand that filters water. Why in the world would it change the temperature? And there is really no explanaition to this. This is why you have to draw the "it's magic" card and that is why so many ppl are complaining about it.

Quote

As for "exploiting" the sieve to cool your base.. no, you're not.  Its not an exploit. 

It does not really matter how you define "exploit" or whatnot. The only thing that matters in a computer game is: 1) Is it fun to use? 2) Is its main function in agreement with the object name? 3) Is it easy to comprehend and to implement? And that this a solid fail for the water sieve: Maybe / No / No

Quote

Both the AETN and wheezewarts violate physics -- but the sieve does not.  

I do not even know where to start here. That claim is so obviously wrong. Almost everything in this game violates physics. So what? That is a good thing because things in this simulation need to be more simplistic because we can not run ONI on a super computer. So violating physics or not is not really a valid argument against or for something. The problem with the three things in this list is the same problem I mentioned earlier: Apple, Banana, Broomstick. Apples and Bananas taste like fruits. They are defined as fruites per definition. If a broomstick tastes like a fruit because it has been created by "advances dupe science" it is naturally to wrinkle an eyebrow and wonder what is going on here.

Quote

This requires power and results in heat radiating out into the world.

1) If this were true then the heat being radiated would be dependant on the input temperature.  2) If the input needs to be heated/cooled to a certain termpature the necessary input power levels would be dependant on the input temperature.

Quote

The only "magic" going on was figuring out that it could be used that way.

That is another thing that shows what is wrong here. It can not be used that way, it MUST be used that way. I am being forced to use a piece of equipment that does not what can be anticipated from it's description. In a real world scenario that would be an instant refund. It is no "magic" if I buy something labeled as a hair dryer that blows out air at 600°C. IT IS BAD DESIGN.

Quote

You don't have to do anything.

That is a thought-terminating clicheé. You can use that phrase in any context. Please don't, it will not lead to constructive discussions.

Quote

If someone builds it different, good for them!  They're allowed to do so.  Your argument is like claiming that you purchased a Lego set and you're mad that the instructions only tell you how to build one particular thing.

Ironically from my point of view it is like the exact opposite. I have no simple, accessible and obvious choice but to use a barrel filled with sand that does magically increase the temperature by just pumping water through it. Sure I could put a lot of effort into a boiling design or whatnot to purify my water, but none of the new players will understand that or be able to recreate that.

If a new player plays ONI and discovers that the water sieve outputs the water at 40°C after noticing all the plants have died. Do you think he will: a) cheer in enjoyment because he has discovered the secondary function of the water sieve b) be frustrated because he did not expact that, or c) starts a new base after watching 3 hours of youtube videos how to cool down the water again that has been heated by a barrel of sand.

You do want new players in this game do you?

[nvzboy]

2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Yes, boiling water is a phase change that reduces heat energy from the system because of the loss of heat capacity.  That exact same mechanic will happen in the sieve if it outputs at the input temperature, meaning that the building can STILL be used to reduce the temperature of your base -- even without the fixed output temperature.

So, here's the question: How would YOU fix the sieve?  Clearly your problem is that people can use it to cool their base and that's not OK for you.  If they don't re-work their physics engine, then outputting at the input temperature would mean that you could still use it to cool your base (heck, it would make my life easier, since half the time I have to cool its output anyway).  If you have it maintain thermal energy across the transfer, then you're going to have to redesign the physics engine AND you're going to have a LOT of new players wondering why their sieve keeps breaking when they're pumping water that is only 70c.  What's your solution to the problem?

You have already posted the solution to the problem, as I have pointed out before. Make the water come out with conservation of energy. So about a 12 °C increase. The physics engine does not have to be reworked, there are other buildings that output heated liquids that can blow pipes and result in a gameplay "failure state" that way. I pointed out the metal refinery as an example of this. You're making this all seem way more difficult than it is. Also, despite what you are alluding to, not a lot of buildings are actually used in a way they are not intended to. Name me one other building that can do something that is not mentioned in the in-game description and you will be hard-pressed to do so. A conveyor can be used to cool things by moving mass from a hot to a cold place, but the conveyor is still just doing what it says on the tin: transporting stuff. A valve filter is also doing everything that the description of the sensor and the valve say: the sensor trips when x element is detected, valve opens when it takes that signal.

The creative part comes from arranging these in interesting ways to accomplish goals that are bigger than just one step to create a process. However there is only one building that is not doing what it says right there on the tin: The water sieve.

To give you also a historic precedent of why this anomaly will disappear is the fertilizer synthesizer. Before it was revamped only few people actually used it for the fertilizer. It was used for the natural gas it put out to the point of P-water being treated as a fuel more precious than petroleum, an actual fuel. The building's name is not natgas synthesizer so the building was tweaked accordingly.

[leoroy]

7 minutes ago, Andz said:

It does not really matter how you define "exploit" or whatnot. The only thing that matters in a computer game is: 1) Is it fun to use? 2) Is its main function in agreement with the object name? 3) Is it easy to comprehend and to implement? And that this a solid fail for the water sieve: Maybe / No / No

That is another thing that shows what is wrong here. It can not be used that way, it MUST be used that way. I am being forced to use a piece of equipment that does not what can be anticipated from it's description. In a real world scenario that would be an instant refund. It is no "magic" if I buy something labeled as a hair dryer that blows out air at 600°C. IT IS BAD DESIGN.

Ironically from my point of view it is like the exact opposite. I have no simple, accessible and obvious choice but to use a barrel filled with sand that does magically increase the temperature by just pumping water through it. Sure I could put a lot of effort into a boiling design or whatnot to purify my water, but none of the new players will understand that or be able to recreate that.

 

Main function in agreement with the name? Well.. I don't understand why you put a "No". It's a water sieve and it does turn PH2O in H2O so I guess it's alright? Easy to comprehend and to implement? Again, I would say yes : if you can't figure out by yourself after few cycles (or at worst a game) that the output of the sieve is a solid 40C, it might not be a game for your. (I'm not mean, it's just that ONI is all about solving a big problem and discovering things, and there's multiple things that are not explained in the game but still really usefull :  almost all the physics in the game aren't explained no-where and can be very different from normal life. You must experiment to understand how this new world is working.) Plus, for implementing, if you put cool water inside the sieve and want fresh water after, some radiant pipes and tempshift (you can even add automation in the long run) can do the trick. I don't think it's really difficult.

For the part about the hair dryer, it's true it could be useful to add "outuput at a solid 40C", but again there's plenty others objects, physics and elements you know nothing about before experimenting with them. I know it does not excuse the fact that the design isn't self-explanatory, but since it's the same for numerous buildings, I won't use this argument before the sieve beeing the only equipment within this situation.

For new players, I don't see the problem : the first game is all about learning from your mistakes. It's part of the joy. If you want to be successful in your first game, you can look in the forums, you can find pretty much everything and there's always someone to help